quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:


Court rules school can ban American flag shirts to avoid racial strife

A federal court ruled Thursday that a northern California high school did not violate the constitutional rights of its students when school officials made them turn their American flag T-shirts inside out on Cinco de Mayo or be sent home due to fears of racial violence.

The three-judge panel unanimously decided the officials’ need to protect the safety of their students outweighed the students’ freedom of expression rights.

Administrators at Live Oak High School, in the San Jose suburb of Morgan Hill, feared the American-flag shirts would enflame Latino students celebrating the Mexican holiday, and ordered the students to either turn the shirts inside out or go home for the day.
Source

Okay let me see if I have this straight, Hispanics can where the Flag of Mexico to school but American kids cant wear the US flag because it might cause a fucking incident?

This is fucking bullshit.

And this is supposed to prevent racial strife?

First of all, Cinco De Mayo isnt a fucking US holiday, has nothing to do with the US, and honestly, if you want to celebrate it, may I suggest you haul your ass back to Mexico?

I have a better idea. Instead of Americans bending over backwards to keep the Hispanics happy on their holidays, how bout we ban anything featuring the flag of Mexico from our schools permanently?

This is the United States, not North Mexico.

Pretty obviously, the shirts were worn not as a matter of course, but deliberately to stick it to Cinco de Mayo.

Racially motivated, and the school landed on the side of prevention. The Court called it.

Had the shirts been a regular feature, different story. But still not "unconstitutional." Schools mandate uniforms, after all -- which I don't favor, but clearly also not "unconstitutional."

You don't have to like it.

Your rant is a change of subject, not an argument against.

The kids had the shirts but kept them folded up only to wear for Cenco de Mayo? Get real.

You get real. That's the point of the entire episode.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

History, truth, and politics often are completely different roads to travel. Some things I found out by actually digging into the deep darks of documentation.

A> The swastika on a red field was never an official symbol of the German government but a political banner of the National Socialist Party. A belief that all authority derived from a central government and all decision making should derive from central government policies was central to their platform. Reminds me of some of our senators.

B> Every war is fought for three reasons. These are usually economic, political, and emotional.
The economic reason for southern secession was special interest group tariffs that crippled southern commerce. Heavy equipment from England for processing fiber was taxed exorbitantly. A cartel of northeastern states fabric mills was fighting to block introduction of fabric mills in the south and ensure their continued monopoly on American fiber processing.
The political issue was Nullification. This is the concept that a state has a right to declare a federal law null and void inside its borders if too objectionable. Federal troops were deployed to enforce tax collection over the objection of several states.
The emotional issue in any war is the issue that is used to convince young men to lay down their lives; whether it is fact or not. Slavery was the issue sold to the public to fund the war against Southern secession. The current oil war has been sold as a war on terror.

C> The origin of slavery in the U.S. goes back to the indenture system. The first slave in the colonies was a fellow that applied to the courts for an exception to the seven year indenture to allow him to be taken care of for life.
After the Louisiana Purchase, the government inherited a lot of slaves in the previously Spanish colonies and had to make legal provision for them.

D> As to the U.S. flag on Cinco de Mayo. It has been a increasing trend of American schools to accept thuggish behavior and punish others based on a perception of potential aggravation of thuggish problems.
All of the politically correct posturing while turning a blind eye to patterns of persecution and assault in the schools makes one wonder why there aren't more Columbine incidents.
Forcing divergent and often conflicting cultures to associate without giving them an enforced framework of behavior is just fueling a conflict. The military does this by using uniforms and an enforced code of behavior. It became politically incorrect to do this in schools in the 1970s.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Uh, did you miss the point that the majority of southern Americans hated the way the KKK and other groups used the flag, or was that lost on you?

Are you aware that in some countries the US flag is a symbol of racism and oppression?

Are you aware that there are people in the US, born in the US, descended from people born in the US, who consider the US flag a symbol of genocide and elimination of cultures?

Contrary to what many want to believe, southerners are not racist as a culture. The racist elements in the south are a very small minority. The KKK is growing in the Northern States and fading in the south, are you aware of that?

Now if you were to believe Hollywood, the majority of southerners are illiterate, racists, wife beating, beer drinking, inbred and incapable of getting anything past a mid high school education. Southern born men marry first cousins, go to family reunions to meet girls, and all that other bullshit.

Jeff Foxworthy made a fortune playing that up, remember?

You know, kinda like that cliche' that all Hispanics in the US speak with an accent, are gardeners and maids, the younger ones are thugs and gang members. African Americans from inner cities are drug addicts, drug dealers, thieves, gang members, etc.

How many minority comedians make people laugh playing up that crap?

And all of those are Americans describing Americans.

Now, do you really want to keep stereo typing the south past and present as racist?

Now lets see, according to your profile you are in Manhattan.

Lets see, would you like me to go into detail of what many people in the south think of people from there?

Right off the top of my head, stuck up, money hungry, self centered, better than anyone else, you know, the basic Hollywood characterization. The difference is that many southerners see it as true, why?

And please remember, the US flag has a hell of a lot longer history of racial oppression than the confederate flag ever did.

The US army eliminated a number of native american cultures, and where they stopped the Bureau of Indian affairs took over. Native American children were taken from their parents, placed in a boarding school, forbidden from wearing traditional clothes, hairstyles, even speaking their language. To enforce these rules, enlightened non-racist teachers, beat students to the point of bleeding, locked them in rooms for up to days, forced to go without eating, and other equally heinous tortures, punishment is too light a word. This practice began in the 1800's and ended after 1928, officially. The last BIA boarding school closed in the early sixties.

All this was done in the name of Americanization. Wonderful term, coined by a little known American, a guy named George Washington, or I should say, he was the little known American that came up with the idea.

Do you know the man's name who convinced Thomas Jefferson from striking a sentence in the Declaration of independence that stated men of color were equal? A little known man named Samuel Adams.

He said it was for "future generations to deal with."

But yet slavery and racism is a southern thing.

Why dont you find out about the Dewolf family of Rhode Island? Or the Brown family of Providence, you know, the family that donated enough money to the Rhode Island College to get it renamed to Brown.

Or the northern banks that listed slaves as livestock, avoiding the term altogether...

But slavery and racism is a southern thing.

And people in the northern states wonder why they are not trusted in the south, treated as outsiders, and generally despised?

A hell of a lot of Old Money Northern families made their fortunes in the slave trade, running that wonderful trading route to Europe, then South to Africa for a load of cargo, then to the Caribbean or Savannah GA or Charleston SC, then carrying cotton to northern mills.

Give you three guesses what that African cargo was...

But slavery is a southern thing...

Ever heard the term Hypocrite? Revisionist history? I have been accused of that a lot, but the people doing the accusing seem to want to ignore some facts that tarnish the north.

quote:

Okay let me see if I have this straight, Hispanics can where the Flag of Mexico to school but American kids cant wear the US flag because it might cause a fucking incident?

This is fucking bullshit.

And this is supposed to prevent racial strife?

First of all, Cinco De Mayo isnt a fucking US holiday, has nothing to do with the US, and honestly, if you want to celebrate it, may I suggest you haul your ass back to Mexico?

I have a better idea. Instead of Americans bending over backwards to keep the Hispanics happy on their holidays, how bout we ban anything featuring the flag of Mexico from our schools permanently?

This is the United States, not North Mexico.

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Uh, did you miss the point that the majority of southern Americans hated the way the KKK and other groups used the flag, or was that lost on you?

Are you aware that in some countries the US flag is a symbol of racism and oppression?

Are you aware that there are people in the US, born in the US, descended from people born in the US, who consider the US flag a symbol of genocide and elimination of cultures?

Contrary to what many want to believe, southerners are not racist as a culture. The racist elements in the south are a very small minority. The KKK is growing in the Northern States and fading in the south, are you aware of that?

Now if you were to believe Hollywood, the majority of southerners are illiterate, racists, wife beating, beer drinking, inbred and incapable of getting anything past a mid high school education. Southern born men marry first cousins, go to family reunions to meet girls, and all that other bullshit.

Jeff Foxworthy made a fortune playing that up, remember?

You know, kinda like that cliche' that all Hispanics in the US speak with an accent, are gardeners and maids, the younger ones are thugs and gang members. African Americans from inner cities are drug addicts, drug dealers, thieves, gang members, etc.

How many minority comedians make people laugh playing up that crap?

And all of those are Americans describing Americans.

Now, do you really want to keep stereo typing the south past and present as racist?

Now lets see, according to your profile you are in Manhattan.

Lets see, would you like me to go into detail of what many people in the south think of people from there?

Right off the top of my head, stuck up, money hungry, self centered, better than anyone else, you know, the basic Hollywood characterization. The difference is that many southerners see it as true, why?

And please remember, the US flag has a hell of a lot longer history of racial oppression than the confederate flag ever did.

The US army eliminated a number of native american cultures, and where they stopped the Bureau of Indian affairs took over. Native American children were taken from their parents, placed in a boarding school, forbidden from wearing traditional clothes, hairstyles, even speaking their language. To enforce these rules, enlightened non-racist teachers, beat students to the point of bleeding, locked them in rooms for up to days, forced to go without eating, and other equally heinous tortures, punishment is too light a word. This practice began in the 1800's and ended after 1928, officially. The last BIA boarding school closed in the early sixties.

All this was done in the name of Americanization. Wonderful term, coined by a little known American, a guy named George Washington, or I should say, he was the little known American that came up with the idea.

Do you know the man's name who convinced Thomas Jefferson from striking a sentence in the Declaration of independence that stated men of color were equal? A little known man named Samuel Adams.

He said it was for "future generations to deal with."

But yet slavery and racism is a southern thing.

Why dont you find out about the Dewolf family of Rhode Island? Or the Brown family of Providence, you know, the family that donated enough money to the Rhode Island College to get it renamed to Brown.

Or the northern banks that listed slaves as livestock, avoiding the term altogether...

But slavery and racism is a southern thing.

And people in the northern states wonder why they are not trusted in the south, treated as outsiders, and generally despised?

A hell of a lot of Old Money Northern families made their fortunes in the slave trade, running that wonderful trading route to Europe, then South to Africa for a load of cargo, then to the Caribbean or Savannah GA or Charleston SC, then carrying cotton to northern mills.

Give you three guesses what that African cargo was...

But slavery is a southern thing...

Ever heard the term Hypocrite? Revisionist history? I have been accused of that a lot, but the people doing the accusing seem to want to ignore some facts that tarnish the north.

No one is saying other things cannot be symbols of oppression. Yes, the U.S. flag can be a symbol of oppression. Isn't that part of the point of the following:

quote:

Okay let me see if I have this straight, Hispanics can where the Flag of Mexico to school but American kids cant wear the US flag because it might cause a fucking incident?

This is fucking bullshit.

And this is supposed to prevent racial strife?

First of all, Cinco De Mayo isnt a fucking US holiday, has nothing to do with the US, and honestly, if you want to celebrate it, may I suggest you haul your ass back to Mexico?

I have a better idea. Instead of Americans bending over backwards to keep the Hispanics happy on their holidays, how bout we ban anything featuring the flag of Mexico from our schools permanently?

This is the United States, not North Mexico.

Do you now understand why the kids were not allowed to wear the U.S. flag on Cinco de Mayo. Your own argument supports the above, so what exactly is your problem????

quote:

Do you even have a clue about racism in the US pre and post civil war?

quote:

Henry Hezekiah Dee and Charles Eddie Moore were killed by Klansmen who believed the two were part of a plot to arm blacks in the area. (There was no such plot.) Their bodies were found during a massive search for the missing civil rights workers Chaney, Goodman and Schwerner. Mississippi, 1964

James Earl Chaney, Andrew Goodman and Michael Henry Schwerner, young civil rights workers, were arrested by a deputy sheriff and then released into the hands of Klansmen who had plotted their murders. They were shot, and their bodies were buried in an earthen dam. Philadelphia Mississippi, 1964

quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

quote:

Henry Hezekiah Dee and Charles Eddie Moore were killed by Klansmen who believed the two were part of a plot to arm blacks in the area. (There was no such plot.) Their bodies were found during a massive search for the missing civil rights workers Chaney, Goodman and Schwerner. Mississippi, 1964

James Earl Chaney, Andrew Goodman and Michael Henry Schwerner, young civil rights workers, were arrested by a deputy sheriff and then released into the hands of Klansmen who had plotted their murders. They were shot, and their bodies were buried in an earthen dam. Philadelphia Mississippi, 1964

I remember that day well. I was supposed to camp in the backyard with the son of the Sheriff. We found out later the Sheriff was warned the Klan was taking action and he got his family out of town.

Cecil Price, the deputy sheriff, was a violent ass. I still have scars on the back of my thighs where he hit me (age 7) for climbing up on the fence around a horse pen. The deputies were covered by union and civil service protection whereas the Sheriff was an elected position. Price has filled the Sheriff's department with his Klan cronies and every time one was hired that wasn't part of the group; they were either recruited or coerced into leaving. It turned out during the trial that one was actually an undercover FBI informant.

I remember the discussions about the Civil Rights movement. Before the murders, the Civil Rights workers, from Chicago, were considered riot inciting carpetbaggers that were inflaming attempts at a peaceful resolution of the issues. The local Klan, and the ranting speeches on the courthouse steps, were considered as "a bunch of ignorant rednecks with more anger than sense" (a quote from my Grandfather).

One of images that sticks with me the most were the "men in black". Only the FBI would be arrogant enough to think they can go about in black suits with ties in humid 95+ Mississippi summers and not be recognized as what hey were. Many of the FBI agents who had never been to the South thought anyone showing a confederate battle flag must be part of the Klan. Sorry guys, but a confederate battle flag was showing support for the University of Mississippi football team. (You showed a cowbell or a bulldog if you were a fan of Mississippi State University)

quote:

One of images that sticks with me the most were the "men in black". Only the FBI would be arrogant enough to think they can go about in black suits with ties in humid 95+ Mississippi summers and not be recognized as what hey were. Many of the FBI agents who had never been to the South thought anyone showing a confederate battle flag must be part of the Klan. Sorry guys, but a confederate battle flag was showing support for the University of Mississippi football team. (You showed a cowbell or a bulldog if you were a fan of Mississippi State University)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

Do you even have a clue about racism in the US pre and post civil war?

Ummmm . . . yes, I have a clue. Almost 4000 blacks were lynched...

Do you have a clue what "lynched" means?

K.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

One of images that sticks with me the most were the "men in black". Only the FBI would be arrogant enough to think they can go about in black suits with ties in humid 95+ Mississippi summers and not be recognized as what hey were. Many of the FBI agents who had never been to the South thought anyone showing a confederate battle flag must be part of the Klan. Sorry guys, but a confederate battle flag was showing support for the University of Mississippi football team. (You showed a cowbell or a bulldog if you were a fan of Mississippi State University)

The US Marshalls who ringed the campus were not dressed in black, however. It is true that the University of Mississippi sports teams were represented by the rebel battle flag of the Confederacy and ironically they had a little noted championship football team that season but that does not excuse what happened there that autumn nor does it erase the significance of the flag to those who were oppressed by the Jim Crow Laws and by the culture of racial superiority that suffocated the South even into the late 20th Century.

Here is a report on those events for anyone interested:
GHOSTS OF OLE MISS, ESPN 30 for 30 Films

quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

One of images that sticks with me the most were the "men in black". Only the FBI would be arrogant enough to think they can go about in black suits with ties in humid 95+ Mississippi summers and not be recognized as what hey were. Many of the FBI agents who had never been to the South thought anyone showing a confederate battle flag must be part of the Klan. Sorry guys, but a confederate battle flag was showing support for the University of Mississippi football team. (You showed a cowbell or a bulldog if you were a fan of Mississippi State University)

The US Marshalls who ringed the campus were not dressed in black, however. It is true that the University of Mississippi sports teams were represented by the rebel battle flag of the Confederacy and ironically they had a little noted championship football team that season but that does not excuse what happened there that autumn nor does it erase the significance of the flag to those who were oppressed by the Jim Crow Laws and by the culture of racial superiority that suffocated the South even into the late 20th Century.

Here is a report on those events for anyone interested:
GHOSTS OF OLE MISS, ESPN 30 for 30 Films

Ummm... what do the federal marshals at Ole Miss keeping the demonstrators protesting Medgar Evers enrollment in line have to do with the FBI agents investigating the civil rights murders in Philadelphia, Mississippi? Two completely different geographical locations and points in time.

quote:

As it was linked by the fact that, in Neshoba County of the early 1960s, displaying the confederate battle flag was to show support for the University of Mississippi football team. Inflammatory attempts to demonize all of southern culture only hold water with the prejudiced.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

try wearing a "Union Jack" on independence day in bum fuck virginia...