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RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/5/2014 8:32:06 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
No you are dodging the question, when you have turned on the light what would tell you it was reasonable
to take violent defensive action. Don't give me a mindless platitude tell me what criteria would allow you to shoot.

An unmistakable aggressive action that endangered me or another.

Be specific, I would say someone trying to pound you into the ground qualifies but you argued against that.
What do you consider unmistakable. I would say ignoring three warnings qualifies and you disagree.
So what short of giving them first strike counts, a notarized statement of hostile intent.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 3/5/2014 8:37:24 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 281
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/5/2014 9:13:38 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		You saw a shape

No I saw a cat.
My German Shepard used to get upset when she hid in the shadows and I would point right at her.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 282
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/5/2014 9:47:44 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
No you are dodging the question, when you have turned on the light what would tell you it was reasonable
to take violent defensive action. Don't give me a mindless platitude tell me what criteria would allow you to shoot.

An unmistakable aggressive action that endangered me or another.

Be specific, I would say someone trying to pound you into the ground qualifies but you argued against that.
What do you consider unmistakable. I would say ignoring three warnings qualifies and you disagree.
So what short of giving them first strike counts, a notarized statement of hostile intent.

Charging at me  or someone else with a weapon, pointing a gun at me or someone else.
Simply being present and not responding to a verbal statement is never sufficient cause to kill someone.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 283
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/5/2014 9:50:57 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Actually if you knew anything about tactical work in the dark you'd know that movement in the dark is movement and discerning in what direction it is going is very difficult.


Actually my night vision must be so much better than yours as to make you assertions seem absurd.
You must be virtually night blind if you think that.
And you are saying then that Hendrix would naturally seen an attack coming.

Wrong. Full night vision takes a long time to come up after being in light so this guy was likely operating mostly blind.

And no ones night vision is so good that they can defy the physical reality of how their eyes work.

Special forces operators train to work at night specifically because people who do not have vision enhancements and/or extensive training working at night are terrible at it. If you had any such training you'd know that.

So once again your opinion trumps what I have experienced.
Although your argument about adjusting to different light is the reason I would not blind myself by turning on the outside light
instead I turn off the inside light. That is part of the reason that I am not defying the laws of physics.
Last night I stepped out of my house and instantly found the one thing that didn't fit. I identified a cat hiding behind a bush so don't tell me what I can do.
I have never been anyplace other than a bar where it was dark enough to have those effects.
Even in the country there is some light, enough to work by.

You saw a shape. You could not have judged whether it was moving toward or away from you until it had moved a lot and if it was a danger that would have been too late. That is a fact. People are terrible in low light situations.

As the man who shot a 72 year old man with dementia proved.

But I was able to, sorry but you are wrong again. Maybe I just process information better.

No. You interpreted what you saw. You were not under stress and did not have to make any snap judgments. Now try and catch that cat in a hurry.

And I'll remind you again this is not just my opinion this is the opinion of every special forces operator on the planet.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 284
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/5/2014 9:59:52 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
No you are dodging the question, when you have turned on the light what would tell you it was reasonable
to take violent defensive action. Don't give me a mindless platitude tell me what criteria would allow you to shoot.

An unmistakable aggressive action that endangered me or another.

Be specific, I would say someone trying to pound you into the ground qualifies but you argued against that.
What do you consider unmistakable. I would say ignoring three warnings qualifies and you disagree.
So what short of giving them first strike counts, a notarized statement of hostile intent.

Charging at me  or someone else with a weapon, pointing a gun at me or someone else.
Simply being present and not responding to a verbal statement is never sufficient cause to kill someone.

So advancing on you with a weapon qualifies, particularly if you tell them not to.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 285
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/5/2014 10:02:15 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Actually if you knew anything about tactical work in the dark you'd know that movement in the dark is movement and discerning in what direction it is going is very difficult.


Actually my night vision must be so much better than yours as to make you assertions seem absurd.
You must be virtually night blind if you think that.
And you are saying then that Hendrix would naturally seen an attack coming.

Wrong. Full night vision takes a long time to come up after being in light so this guy was likely operating mostly blind.

And no ones night vision is so good that they can defy the physical reality of how their eyes work.

Special forces operators train to work at night specifically because people who do not have vision enhancements and/or extensive training working at night are terrible at it. If you had any such training you'd know that.

So once again your opinion trumps what I have experienced.
Although your argument about adjusting to different light is the reason I would not blind myself by turning on the outside light
instead I turn off the inside light. That is part of the reason that I am not defying the laws of physics.
Last night I stepped out of my house and instantly found the one thing that didn't fit. I identified a cat hiding behind a bush so don't tell me what I can do.
I have never been anyplace other than a bar where it was dark enough to have those effects.
Even in the country there is some light, enough to work by.

You saw a shape. You could not have judged whether it was moving toward or away from you until it had moved a lot and if it was a danger that would have been too late. That is a fact. People are terrible in low light situations.

As the man who shot a 72 year old man with dementia proved.

But I was able to, sorry but you are wrong again. Maybe I just process information better.

No. You interpreted what you saw. You were not under stress and did not have to make any snap judgments. Now try and catch that cat in a hurry.

And I'll remind you again this is not just my opinion this is the opinion of every special forces operator on the planet.

If I wanted the cat I would have unleashed my dog.
You try to catch a cat in the daytime.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 286
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/5/2014 10:15:08 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		No. You interpreted what you saw. You were not under stress and did not have to make any snap judgments. Now try and catch that cat in a hurry.

And I'll remind you again this is not just my opinion this is the opinion of every special forces operator on the planet.

I have been in half a dozen of those "stress" situations and have never resorted to a snap decision.
Not even when a fool made every mistake possible, creating a situation that even you with your oh no that can't really be
a gun and it must have been a car backfiring attitude would have believed you were about to die.
He was 1/2 second from the pearly gates when even in the midst of drawing my weapon I reevaluated.
He had by this time done enough stupid things that most people would have shot him and walked.
He was so dumb it was a virtual suicide.
I have faced down drug dealers, crack heads and one guy who made the mistake of trying to sneak up on me in the dark
Because he, like you assumed I couldn't do what I can do.
A woman threatening to kill a wedding party( who I faced down unarmed, she and the wedding party thought I was
) only made the wedding interesting for me, not stressful.
I may not be normal but I am the guy you want between you and danger.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 287
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/5/2014 10:42:17 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
I may not be normal but I am the guy you want between you and danger.



While that guy you are talking to sounds like the perfect target for a sucker punch. If you do that first unmistakeable aggressive act the right way, it's all over except for digging through the pockets, and stealing the rings.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 288
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/5/2014 10:47:01 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
I may not be normal but I am the guy you want between you and danger.



While that guy you are talking to sounds like the perfect target for a sucker punch. If you do that first unmistakeable aggressive act the right way, it's all over except for digging through the pockets, and stealing the rings.

And I can't make him understand it. I think he is a well meaning Darwin candidate.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 289
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/6/2014 5:20:52 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

No. You interpreted what you saw. You were not under stress and did not have to make any snap judgments. Now try and catch that cat in a hurry.

And I'll remind you again this is not just my opinion this is the opinion of every special forces operator on the planet.

I have been in half a dozen of those "stress" situations and have never resorted to a snap decision.
Not even when a fool made every mistake possible, creating a situation that even you with your oh no that can't really be
a gun and it must have been a car backfiring attitude would have believed you were about to die.
He was 1/2 second from the pearly gates when even in the midst of drawing my weapon I reevaluated.
He had by this time done enough stupid things that most people would have shot him and walked.
He was so dumb it was a virtual suicide.
I have faced down drug dealers, crack heads and one guy who made the mistake of trying to sneak up on me in the dark
Because he, like you assumed I couldn't do what I can do.
A woman threatening to kill a wedding party( who I faced down unarmed, she and the wedding party thought I was
) only made the wedding interesting for me, not stressful.
I may not be normal but I am the guy you want between you and danger.

Sure you have.

Do you know how people who have actually been in combat know people others who have been in combat? They'll do pretty much anything to avoid ever being back there again. You don't therefore you have never actually been there.

< Message edited by DomKen -- 3/6/2014 5:23:35 AM >

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 290
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/6/2014 5:45:43 AM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
As with most of the anti self defense gang on here you ignore the fact that he ignored three warnings to stop advancing toward him with a weapon.
This and none of your distractions was the reason he was shot.


The sad thing is your defending an idiot that left the security of his dwelling to confront some old man that needed some honest, to god, help. Would you leave your dwelling to confront someone outside, AFTER, you have called the police and before the person gained entry? What tactical advantage was there to be out in the open, at night, without both backup and certainty of no possible ambush by a third party?

Your arguing 'yes you would'. I would like to think you would not do something some blatantly dumb. That guy went out of his way to murdered a 71 year old man. If the guy actually broke in and was advancing into the house, THEN, that would have been grounds for self defense. Had the guy kept cool and calm, holding up in a defensive position and waited for cavalry to arrive, things would have been most likely different today.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 291
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/6/2014 6:03:30 AM   
lady4dad


Posts: 18
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline 		Alzheimer patiens are very often:
- disoriented about time of day and location where they are
- suffering from limitations in speech and understanding what is said

These things should be commonly known since the percentage of dementia and Alzheimer's disease is growing with increase of life expectancy

These things usually are commonly known in civilised societies




(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 292
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/6/2014 6:09:46 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		NM

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 3/6/2014 6:10:50 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 293
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/6/2014 6:13:48 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

These things usually are commonly known in civilised societies


As The Heretic helpfully observed earlier in regard to a comment of mine and in a different context, lady4dad:

quote:

It doesn't work that way in this country, so get over it.



_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 294
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/6/2014 7:30:26 AM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
So advancing on you with a weapon qualifies, particularly if you tell them not to.


You do realize that Hendrix voluntarily left the safety of his home in order to confront the old man. Literally, the old man would not have been advancing on anyone with his FLASHLIGHT if Hendrix had simply opted to stay inside his house - safe and warm. Hendrix's stupidity has resulted in MANSLAUGHTER. Explain to me why he should not have stayed in his house? Obviously when he confronted the old man, the old man was not at the door (otherwise how did Hendrix even get outside). I suspect the old guy was just wandering about the property - in other words ZERO threat to someone if they just stay indoors and wait patiently for the police.

This shooter was NOT in fear - he was just impatient. And I'm sorry, but our laws should not protect that. He is guilty of MANSLAUGHTER. I hope he can live with his conscience. He takes away an innocent person's life and gets off with NO PENALTY, other than having to give a meek apology to the victim's family. How lame. Hendrix is morally vacuous.

_____________________________

~ ftp

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Profile   Post #: 295
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/6/2014 9:38:57 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

No. You interpreted what you saw. You were not under stress and did not have to make any snap judgments. Now try and catch that cat in a hurry.

And I'll remind you again this is not just my opinion this is the opinion of every special forces operator on the planet.

I have been in half a dozen of those "stress" situations and have never resorted to a snap decision.
Not even when a fool made every mistake possible, creating a situation that even you with your oh no that can't really be
a gun and it must have been a car backfiring attitude would have believed you were about to die.
He was 1/2 second from the pearly gates when even in the midst of drawing my weapon I reevaluated.
He had by this time done enough stupid things that most people would have shot him and walked.
He was so dumb it was a virtual suicide.
I have faced down drug dealers, crack heads and one guy who made the mistake of trying to sneak up on me in the dark
Because he, like you assumed I couldn't do what I can do.
A woman threatening to kill a wedding party( who I faced down unarmed, she and the wedding party thought I was
) only made the wedding interesting for me, not stressful.
I may not be normal but I am the guy you want between you and danger.

Sure you have.

Do you know how people who have actually been in combat know people others who have been in combat? They'll do pretty much anything to avoid ever being back there again. You don't therefore you have never actually been there.

Who said I want to have another confrontation? Sur wasn't me.
Sounds a lot like you are calling me a liar.
None of the incidents I mentioned qualify as being in combat.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 296
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/6/2014 10:03:11 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		Its gone past calling anyone a liar...
waaaah

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(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
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\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 297
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/6/2014 11:17:28 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

Explain to me why he should not have stayed in his house?

Because he didn't know if the man attempting to gain entry to his home was armed, and finding out after the fact could have resulted in harm to himself or his wife. So he chose to make sure the guy didn't get inside in the first place.

K.


(in reply to fucktoyprincess)
Profile   Post #: 298
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/6/2014 11:49:27 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Because he didn't know if the man attempting to gain entry to his home was armed


Oh hell... so now those full of fear and paranoia are to assume everyone knocking on the door is armed and is attempting to gain entry by force...what crap.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 299
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/6/2014 11:57:39 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lady4dad

Alzheimer patiens are very often:
- disoriented about time of day and location where they are
- suffering from limitations in speech and understanding what is said

These things should be commonly known since the percentage of dementia and Alzheimer's disease is growing with increase of life expectancy

These things usually are commonly known in civilised societies







It's commonly know here so I guess we are civilized. Thanks for clearing that up although I am not sure that was your intent. And it really doesn't have anything to do with this case since the homeowner had no possible way of knowing that he had it.

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to lady4dad)
Profile   Post #: 300
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