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RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/6/2014 12:00:44 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		It must be hell going through life afraid of ones shadow with a need to stand behind a gun to feel safe.

The advantage of a civilization is to have laws and regulations that allow us to live together without the need of personal defense 24 hours a day. It is a disgrace how political parties have played on the fears of the weak and paranoid to the point where they feel they must arm themselves for protection to survive.

Instead of advancing as a civilization we are reverting to the imagined vigilante justice of the late 1800’s.

The very party that professes law and order has for the last 20 years been undercutting it and promoting distrust and lack of confidence in our judiciary system…. I hate politicians.


Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 3/6/2014 12:42:05 PM >

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RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/6/2014 12:00:53 PM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

Hendrix is morally vacuous.



I am not sure I would go that far but I do wonder why he went outside.

edited to add...and know K has cleared it up.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

Explain to me why he should not have stayed in his house?

Because he didn't know if the man attempting to gain entry to his home was armed, and finding out after the fact could have resulted in harm to himself or his wife. So he chose to make sure the guy didn't get inside in the first place.

K.





< Message edited by thishereboi -- 3/6/2014 12:12:03 PM >

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RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/6/2014 12:02:35 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		FR

Isn't there some onus in the USA on the defender to acquire a minimal level of knowledge and use some rudimentary reasoning powers before shooting someone? I mean, for instance, having a torch properly to see what's out there in the dark, and possibly intruding into one's home, along with having a gun to shoot at it?

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 3/6/2014 12:03:19 PM >

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RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/6/2014 12:09:22 PM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

No. You interpreted what you saw. You were not under stress and did not have to make any snap judgments. Now try and catch that cat in a hurry.

And I'll remind you again this is not just my opinion this is the opinion of every special forces operator on the planet.

I have been in half a dozen of those "stress" situations and have never resorted to a snap decision.
Not even when a fool made every mistake possible, creating a situation that even you with your oh no that can't really be
a gun and it must have been a car backfiring attitude would have believed you were about to die.
He was 1/2 second from the pearly gates when even in the midst of drawing my weapon I reevaluated.
He had by this time done enough stupid things that most people would have shot him and walked.
He was so dumb it was a virtual suicide.
I have faced down drug dealers, crack heads and one guy who made the mistake of trying to sneak up on me in the dark
Because he, like you assumed I couldn't do what I can do.
A woman threatening to kill a wedding party( who I faced down unarmed, she and the wedding party thought I was
) only made the wedding interesting for me, not stressful.
I may not be normal but I am the guy you want between you and danger.

Sure you have.

Do you know how people who have actually been in combat know people others who have been in combat? They'll do pretty much anything to avoid ever being back there again. You don't therefore you have never actually been there.

Who said I want to have another confrontation? Sur wasn't me.
Sounds a lot like you are calling me a liar.
None of the incidents I mentioned qualify as being in combat.


I was wondering about that when I read the post. I didn't see anything that implied you went out looking for it but that doesn't always stop some people from claiming it was there. And yes it does sound like he is calling you a liar, but I wouldn't worry too much.

The statement I found interesting is bolded. Doing pretty much anything you can to avoid going back would include never reenlisting and I am pretty sure every soldier that has ever reenlisted had actually been in combat first.

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RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/6/2014 12:09:59 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Isn't there some onus in the USA on the defender to acquire a minimal level of knowledge and use some rudimentary reasoning powers before shooting someone? I mean, for instance, having a torch properly to see what's out there in the dark, and possibly intruding into one's home, along with having a gun to shoot at it?


I look at it this way... he must of had plenty of light to have hit his target 4 times... If he didn't hit his target every time... then he is lucky the rounds he missed with did not hit the next door neighbors house and kill another innocent person.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 3/6/2014 12:15:05 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/6/2014 12:14:59 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

Because he didn't know if the man attempting to gain entry to his home was armed

Oh hell... so now those full of fear and paranoia are to assume everyone knocking on the door is armed and is attempting to gain entry by force...what crap.

Butch

The case in point is someone trying to gain entry to your home at 4am, first through the front and then heading around back. This lunatic crap about "everyone knocking on the door" is coming from you, and only you. How's that rate on the "fear and paranoia" scale?

K.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 306
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/6/2014 12:16:17 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Not at all... all he did was knock and ring the bell and jiggled the door knob... you show me any account that says otherwise...He did not attempt to force entry to the home.

Butch

ps... from all the accounts I read he DID NOT go to the back door and knock... He only knocked on the front door.

< Message edited by kdsub -- 3/6/2014 12:29:03 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 307
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/6/2014 12:24:24 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess
You do realize that Hendrix voluntarily left the safety of his home in order to confront the old man. Literally, the old man would not have been advancing on anyone with his FLASHLIGHT if Hendrix had simply opted to stay inside his house - safe and warm. Hendrix's stupidity has resulted in MANSLAUGHTER. Explain to me why he should not have stayed in his house? Obviously when he confronted the old man, the old man was not at the door (otherwise how did Hendrix even get outside). I suspect the old guy was just wandering about the property - in other words ZERO threat to someone if they just stay indoors and wait patiently for the police.

This shooter was NOT in fear - he was just impatient. And I'm sorry, but our laws should not protect that. He is guilty of MANSLAUGHTER. I hope he can live with his conscience. He takes away an innocent person's life and gets off with NO PENALTY, other than having to give a meek apology to the victim's family. How lame. Hendrix is morally vacuous.

I went back to the links for this.

quote:

At least twice, Mr. Westbrook climbed onto the small porch, tried to open the door and rang the doorbell, Sheriff Wilson said. Dogs were barking. The police were called.


quote:

“Westbrook never verbally responded to Hendrix but began to advance towards Hendrix in what Hendrix described as a quick and aggressive manner,” Mr. Franklin said. “Hendrix could only see a silhouette figure carrying a cylindrical object in his hand but could not make out anything else.”


This is just Me, but a silhouette figure is at least going to show a rough size of a person. Grown man, rather than small child, so the rhetoric about how it could have been a five year old isn't productive.

Knowing how I see in the dark (which isn't great) I doubt I could have determined a man's age or that he had an illness. That's just being honest.



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RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/6/2014 12:30:51 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

all he did was knock and ring the bell... you show me any account that says otherwise.

Show you an account? Do you want me to read it for you too, or can you manage that yourself?

Both of the links in the OP say Westbrook was trying to open the door.

K.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 309
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/6/2014 12:33:01 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Yes show me a link where he did anything but knock and ring the bell and jiggle the door knob... show me a link where he attempted a forcible entry into the house.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 3/6/2014 12:34:12 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 310
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/6/2014 12:50:07 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I don't care what time of the day or night no one should be killed for knocking on a door.

In no account did I find where he asked through the door what the man wanted...in no account did the man turn on a porch light... in no account did he tell the man he was calling the police... in no account did I read where he told the man to leave.

The only no account was the shooter.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 311
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/6/2014 12:55:23 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I don't care what time of the day or night no one should be killed for knocking on a door.

In no account did I find where he asked through the door what the man wanted...in no account did the man turn on a porch light... in no account did he tell the man he was calling the police... in no account did I read where he told the man to leave.

The only no account was the shooter.

Butch

Three warnings and yet the dead man was given no indication he was unwanted?
I would expect someone's primary focus to be more the chance I will shoot them than if the cops may be here
in half an hour

< Message edited by BamaD -- 3/6/2014 1:00:23 PM >

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RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/6/2014 1:02:03 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I'd say 4 bullets in the gut told him he was not wanted...but asking what he wanted at the door could have made a difference don't you think?

Turning on a porch light may have helped... don't ya think

Saying he was calling the police may have helped ...don't ya think.

Staying in the house and waiting for the police may have helped... don't ya think

And just in case you missed the following...

I don't care what time of the day or night no one should be killed for knocking on a door

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 3/6/2014 1:03:32 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 313
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/6/2014 1:02:28 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Yes show me a link where he did anything but knock and ring the bell and jiggle the door knob... show me a link where he attempted a forcible entry into the house.

You're just making shit up. Nobody claimed that he "attempted a forcible entry". The reports say only that he "tried to open the door". But it's 4-fucking-am, and when the guy failed to gain entry at the front he headed around back. That does not add up to someone looking to invite you to join their chess club. People who are trying to get into your house are not above ringing the bell to sucker you into opening the door for them. And for your information, Alzheimer's patients may be confused but they are not deaf and mute.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 3/6/2014 1:09:52 PM >

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 314
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/6/2014 1:09:34 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Show me a link to an account that says he went around back and knocked.... every other account... and there are many... just says he moved away form the front door... he did not go around back...You are the one who said the man tried to gain entry to the home...knocking on the door and jiggling the knob is not trying to gain entry...but to get someone to answer the damn door. Only forcible entry should allow lethal force...at least any reasonable person should think so.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 3/6/2014 1:12:13 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 315
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/6/2014 1:12:15 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

No. You interpreted what you saw. You were not under stress and did not have to make any snap judgments. Now try and catch that cat in a hurry.

And I'll remind you again this is not just my opinion this is the opinion of every special forces operator on the planet.

I have been in half a dozen of those "stress" situations and have never resorted to a snap decision.
Not even when a fool made every mistake possible, creating a situation that even you with your oh no that can't really be
a gun and it must have been a car backfiring attitude would have believed you were about to die.
He was 1/2 second from the pearly gates when even in the midst of drawing my weapon I reevaluated.
He had by this time done enough stupid things that most people would have shot him and walked.
He was so dumb it was a virtual suicide.
I have faced down drug dealers, crack heads and one guy who made the mistake of trying to sneak up on me in the dark
Because he, like you assumed I couldn't do what I can do.
A woman threatening to kill a wedding party( who I faced down unarmed, she and the wedding party thought I was
) only made the wedding interesting for me, not stressful.
I may not be normal but I am the guy you want between you and danger.

Sure you have.

Do you know how people who have actually been in combat know people others who have been in combat? They'll do pretty much anything to avoid ever being back there again. You don't therefore you have never actually been there.

Who said I want to have another confrontation? Sur wasn't me.
Sounds a lot like you are calling me a liar.
None of the incidents I mentioned qualify as being in combat.

What I'm writing is what I'm writing.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 316
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/6/2014 1:14:21 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Show me a link to an account that says he went around back and knocked....

Stop making shit up. Neither link says he "knocked," and neither did I. That was you, remember?

Westbrook turned away from the front door and moved toward the back of the house.

Why do you demand I quote this shit to you? Can't you fucking read?

K.


< Message edited by Kirata -- 3/6/2014 1:19:00 PM >

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 317
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/6/2014 1:19:40 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		You said he tried to gain entry first in the front then headed to the back...no other account says he headed to the back... they all say he moved away from the door then came back to the front door

< Message edited by kdsub -- 3/6/2014 1:23:06 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 318
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/6/2014 1:23:29 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

You said he tried to gain entry first in the front then in the back...now who is making things up

Okay enough. You're either lying or illiterate. I never said he tried to gain entry in the back.

K.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 319
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/6/2014 1:25:29 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Well good... then if he did not try to gain entry...why the fuck shoot him.

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 320
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