RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimersquiquit (Full Version)

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BamaD -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimersquiquit (3/8/2014 5:10:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

All you know is someone has rang your doorbell and jiggled the knob. Their is no reason to believe that indicates someone is armed so that invalidates the whole crossfire bullshit.
There is no edge to going without lighting.as I've already explained. Kirata even helpfully posting some medical facts about eyesight proving it.
And what good would street lighting be behind the house? Anyway it's unlikely, unless this was in the very downtown part of Chickamauga, that there were street lights at all. We're talking about mountain small town Goergia.


Then there was no reason to call the police was there, after all no reason to think there was any problem.
After all people innocently try to get into my house all the time.
I live in a much smaller town than Chicamauga and every street has lights, your anti southern bias is showing.

People innocently try to get into your house all the time?
Actually I'm from that part of the south. One of my brothers lives maybe 10 miles from where this happened.
Congratulations on putting your foot so firmly in your mouth though.

As to street lights if it is in town there are lights but out of town the roads get very windy, this is Appalachia after all, and there are no street lights but no matter what this happened behind the guys house and street lights would have been of very little use there. So stop grasping at straws.

Apparently your sarcasm detector is broken beyond repair.
Last time you were from Alabama. The lights are electric not lanterns. And you have not said one thing to provide evidence that there were no street lights other than could have, may have etc.
Just cause your from here doesn't mean you are biased against us.




BamaD -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimers (3/8/2014 5:12:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

You cannot shoot someone unless they are an actual imminent threat to do you grievous bodily harm. And yes, that means most times they do get to attack you before you can kill them.

Come on that is just dumb.
You do not have to give them first strike they may get one in but that doesn't mean you have to give them the first one.

They have to be an imminent threat to do you great bodily harm in the opinion of a reasonable person. That means they have to be attacking you. Anything less and how do you know?

So if your not bleeding it isn't self defense.




BamaD -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimers (3/8/2014 5:13:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

You cannot shoot someone unless they are an actual imminent threat to do you grievous bodily harm. And yes, that means most times they do get to attack you before you can kill them.

Come on that is just dumb.
You do not have to give them first strike they may get one in but that doesn't mean you have to give them the first one.

They have to be an imminent threat to do you great bodily harm in the opinion of a reasonable person. That means they have to be attacking you. Anything less and how do you know?

No wonder the murder rate in Chicago is so high.




DomKen -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimers (3/8/2014 5:48:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

If he didn't KNOW, he shouldn't have fired his weapon. Period.
You don't get to shoot first and ask questions later - SYG doesn't (or shouldn't) work like that.
And neither shouldn't any sensible defense IMHO.

To me, a flashlight is an everyday object carried by many people when it's dark.
Unless the person is wielding it in a menacing manner, it shouldn't be considered as a weapon.


You seem to have forgotten that a couple of months ago we had a thread about a man beaten to death
with a flashlight.
Menacing manner anyone who ignore three warnings is menacing.
As for not knowing what did he need, a notarized letter of intent.


He did not know it was a flashlight.
He could not identify that it was a flashlight, because it was too dark.

I understand people wanting to protect themselves/loved ones from dangerous assailants.
But one should be able to see exactly what it is one is shooting at.

And had he been able to see, he likely would have understood that this wasn't some drug-crazed burglar.


He saw a metal cylinder (and that is what a flashlight is) and the fact that he kept coming in the face
of a .40 cal would indicate that he was crazed by something, exactly the person you never want to get into
a hand to hand fight with.

It was dark. The other person may not have seen the gun. You make far too many assumptions.




BamaD -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimers (3/8/2014 6:03:10 PM)

It was dark. The other person may not have seen the gun. You make far too many assumptions.

Undermined your case again. Advancing in spite of warnings and (by your fantasy) thinking he had Hendrix
"out gunned" would still make him threatening.




DomKen -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimersquiquit (3/8/2014 6:04:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

All you know is someone has rang your doorbell and jiggled the knob. Their is no reason to believe that indicates someone is armed so that invalidates the whole crossfire bullshit.
There is no edge to going without lighting.as I've already explained. Kirata even helpfully posting some medical facts about eyesight proving it.
And what good would street lighting be behind the house? Anyway it's unlikely, unless this was in the very downtown part of Chickamauga, that there were street lights at all. We're talking about mountain small town Goergia.


Then there was no reason to call the police was there, after all no reason to think there was any problem.
After all people innocently try to get into my house all the time.
I live in a much smaller town than Chicamauga and every street has lights, your anti southern bias is showing.

People innocently try to get into your house all the time?
Actually I'm from that part of the south. One of my brothers lives maybe 10 miles from where this happened.
Congratulations on putting your foot so firmly in your mouth though.

As to street lights if it is in town there are lights but out of town the roads get very windy, this is Appalachia after all, and there are no street lights but no matter what this happened behind the guys house and street lights would have been of very little use there. So stop grasping at straws.

Apparently your sarcasm detector is broken beyond repair.
Last time you were from Alabama. The lights are electric not lanterns. And you have not said one thing to provide evidence that there were no street lights other than could have, may have etc.
Just cause your from here doesn't mean you are biased against us.

Do you not know where Chickamauga is? I guess you are the one who is not from the south. For those who do not know. Chickamauga is the site of a famous battle, more men died at Chickamauga than at any battle besides Gettysburg, just inside the Georgia border where Georgia, Alabama and Tennessee come together just southeast of Chattanooga. It is at the base of Lookout Mountain.

My family is from DeKalb County Alabama which is just across the state line from Chickamauga. We've lived there since at least the removal of the Cherokee and family legend says we may have some Cherokee blood so we may have been there literally since prehistory. Don't tell me I'm biased against the south.




DomKen -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimers (3/8/2014 6:06:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

You cannot shoot someone unless they are an actual imminent threat to do you grievous bodily harm. And yes, that means most times they do get to attack you before you can kill them.

Come on that is just dumb.
You do not have to give them first strike they may get one in but that doesn't mean you have to give them the first one.

They have to be an imminent threat to do you great bodily harm in the opinion of a reasonable person. That means they have to be attacking you. Anything less and how do you know?

So if your not bleeding it isn't self defense.

You have to be in danger not just nervous. If someone is in arms reach they could suddenly attack you and try to kill you. Do you shoot anyone who gets within arms reach?




DomKen -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimers (3/8/2014 6:08:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

It was dark. The other person may not have seen the gun. You make far too many assumptions.

Undermined your case again. Advancing in spite of warnings and (by your fantasy) thinking he had Hendrix
"out gunned" would still make him threatening.

The man wasn't thinking at all. He had Alzheimer's remember? He thought he was trying to get into his own home.




BamaD -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimers (3/8/2014 6:33:01 PM)

FR

From Huffington post

Patient, Crime News









ATLANTA (AP) — A man who fatally shot a wandering Alzheimer's patient in the early morning hours in north Georgia will not face criminal charges, a local prosecutor said Friday.

Joe Hendrix, 35, fatally shot 72-year-old Ronald Westbrook on Nov. 27. The elderly man had slipped from his home as early as 1 a.m. and wandered in the cold and dark for hours until randomly approaching the home of Hendrix's fiancee on a rural cul-de-sac, repeatedly knocking on the door and ringing the bell.

Hendrix's fiancee called 911, while Hendrix grabbed his .40-caliber handgun, went outside and confronted Westbrook in the dark. Hendrix told police that he fired four shots after Westbrook ignored commands to stop, identify himself and raise his hands.

District Attorney Herbert "Buzz" Franklin's office characterized the incident as a "tragic shooting death" in a written statement. Franklin did not immediately return a message seeking comment.

"I'm a little upset," said Deanne Westbrook, the slain man's widow. She said she felt police and prosecutors had done a thorough job. "I really wanted to see it go before a grand jury, and then maybe before a jury. But they tell me there's not enough evidence for that."

Hendrix appreciated the care and deliberation shown by investigators, said his attorney, Lee Davis

"Mr. Hendrix fully acknowledges the loss to Westbrook family, and his thoughts and prayers are with them," Davis said in a statement.

A series of chance events, even a missed opportunity, preceded the shooting.

On Nov. 19, Hendrix's fiancee called 911 just before midnight to report that a man carrying a piece of paper and a flashlight rang her doorbell and wanted to see a person whose name she did not recognize, according to Hendrix's attorney and police reports obtained by The Associated Press under the state's open records laws. The woman had only recently moved into the rented home and was suspicious, Davis said previously.

Worried, the fiancee called Hendrix, who told her to call 911. By the time Hendrix and police officers arrived, the suspicious man was gone. Afterward, Hendrix, a former soldier, took a handgun from his apartment in nearby Chattanooga, Tenn., and brought the weapon to his fiancee's home.

About a week later, Westbrook slipped out unnoticed from the home he shared with his wife of 51 years. Westbrook suffered from Alzheimer's, a progressive disease that causes memory loss, impairs judgment and can leave it victims disoriented. His widow, Deanne, previously said her husband had become confused about where he lived and struggled to identify those closest to him.

She said she installed alarms on her doors to prevent her husband from wandering, but she didn't hear them when he left with the couple's two dogs, possibly as early as 1 a.m.

A deputy sheriff noticed Westbrook walking along a road around 2:30 a.m. and stopped to question him, Walker County Steve Wilson said previously. Westbrook told the officer that he was getting his mail — he was near mailboxes — and then planned to return home. Nothing about the conversation alarmed the officer.

Just before 4 a.m., Hendrix and his fiancee woke up to barking dogs and realized someone was ringing their doorbell, knocking on their door and trying to get in, police said. Hendrix's fiancee called 911 while Hendrix went outside with his gun.

Please note the following

1. Hendrix thought the police did a comprehensive investigation.

2. Although disappointed with the outcome so did Mrs. Westbrook

3. Westbrook was stopped by a cop at 2:30, the cop did not see anything wrong with him, this seriously damages the if Hendrix had gotten a better look
Westbrook's condition would have been obvious.

4. Westbrook (at 2:30) said he was getting the mail and then going hope.
This indicates (I am not claiming it proves) that Westbrook thought he was at his house rescuing his wife from an intruder, this would make him a big time threat
as from his service record he was no coward.




BamaD -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimers (3/8/2014 6:36:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

You cannot shoot someone unless they are an actual imminent threat to do you grievous bodily harm. And yes, that means most times they do get to attack you before you can kill them.

Come on that is just dumb.
You do not have to give them first strike they may get one in but that doesn't mean you have to give them the first one.

They have to be an imminent threat to do you great bodily harm in the opinion of a reasonable person. That means they have to be attacking you. Anything less and how do you know?

So if your not bleeding it isn't self defense.

You have to be in danger not just nervous. If someone is in arms reach they could suddenly attack you and try to kill you. Do you shoot anyone who gets within arms reach?

Last time a person came into my yard and kept working closer to me just putting my hand on my firearm was enough to
send them screaming into the darkness.
You are playing that silly game again pretending that this situation is no different from someone walking up to you
in the middle of Wal Mart.




BamaD -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimers (3/8/2014 6:38:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

It was dark. The other person may not have seen the gun. You make far too many assumptions.

Undermined your case again. Advancing in spite of warnings and (by your fantasy) thinking he had Hendrix
"out gunned" would still make him threatening.

The man wasn't thinking at all. He had Alzheimer's remember? He thought he was trying to get into his own home.

And Hendrix was supposed to know this how?
Alzhiemer's doesn't mean you can't think.




Lucylastic -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimers (3/8/2014 6:41:06 PM)

what do you think alzheimers means?




DomKen -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimers (3/8/2014 7:35:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

It was dark. The other person may not have seen the gun. You make far too many assumptions.

Undermined your case again. Advancing in spite of warnings and (by your fantasy) thinking he had Hendrix
"out gunned" would still make him threatening.

The man wasn't thinking at all. He had Alzheimer's remember? He thought he was trying to get into his own home.

And Hendrix was supposed to know this how?
Alzhiemer's doesn't mean you can't think.

Yes it does. It disconnects the person from all their memories which means they are completely disoriented. If you've never dealt with someone with it you have no idea.

The man was 72 years old in the middle of winter at night with no coat. It was better than a fair bet that he needed help and was  not a threat. All that needed to happen was to turn on a light and look at him.




GotSteel -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimers (3/8/2014 7:41:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
And we recently had a thread about a man who was murdered with a flashlight.
Let someone hit you in the head with a flashlight then tell me it isn't a weapon.


So I make a thread about a mob of protesters killing someone then it's legal for people to shoot tea party protestors?




BamaD -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimersquiquit (3/8/2014 7:44:03 PM)


Do you not know where Chickamauga is? I guess you are the one who is not from the south. For those who do not know. Chickamauga is the site of a famous battle, more men died at Chickamauga than at any battle besides Gettysburg, just inside the Georgia border where Georgia, Alabama and Tennessee come together just southeast of Chattanooga. It is at the base of Lookout Mountain.

My family is from DeKalb County Alabama which is just across the state line from Chickamauga. We've lived there since at least the removal of the Cherokee and family legend says we may have some Cherokee blood so we may have been there literally since prehistory. Don't tell me I'm biased against the south.

I grew up in MO, even lived in Chicago for a year or so, I have lived in Alabama since 1981.
I have a degree in history so I am well aware of the historical significance of Chickamauga.
My ancestry includes Sioux.
I tell you these things only to refute your irrelevant arguments.
Read the Huffington article before saying anything else stupid, it undermines many of your position.




BamaD -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimers (3/8/2014 7:45:46 PM)

Yes it does. It disconnects the person from all their memories which means they are completely disoriented. If you've never dealt with someone with it you have no idea.


My grandfather had it and the further it progressed the meaner he got, so another assumption falls flat.




Kirata -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimers (3/8/2014 7:48:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

The man wasn't thinking at all... He thought he was trying to get into his own home.

[8|]

K.




BamaD -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimers (3/8/2014 7:51:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

It was dark. The other person may not have seen the gun. You make far too many assumptions.

Undermined your case again. Advancing in spite of warnings and (by your fantasy) thinking he had Hendrix
"out gunned" would still make him threatening.

The man wasn't thinking at all. He had Alzheimer's remember? He thought he was trying to get into his own home.

Bingo you just made him real dangerous he would have thought he was recuing his wife.




BamaD -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimers (3/8/2014 8:11:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
And we recently had a thread about a man who was murdered with a flashlight.
Let someone hit you in the head with a flashlight then tell me it isn't a weapon.


So I make a thread about a mob of protesters killing someone then it's legal for people to shoot tea party protestors?

Mods have warned you about that once.




DomKen -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimersquiquit (3/8/2014 8:15:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


Do you not know where Chickamauga is? I guess you are the one who is not from the south. For those who do not know. Chickamauga is the site of a famous battle, more men died at Chickamauga than at any battle besides Gettysburg, just inside the Georgia border where Georgia, Alabama and Tennessee come together just southeast of Chattanooga. It is at the base of Lookout Mountain.

My family is from DeKalb County Alabama which is just across the state line from Chickamauga. We've lived there since at least the removal of the Cherokee and family legend says we may have some Cherokee blood so we may have been there literally since prehistory. Don't tell me I'm biased against the south.

I grew up in MO, even lived in Chicago for a year or so, I have lived in Alabama since 1981.
I have a degree in history so I am well aware of the historical significance of Chickamauga.
My ancestry includes Sioux.
I tell you these things only to refute your irrelevant arguments.
Read the Huffington article before saying anything else stupid, it undermines many of your position.

So you're not southern. So don't give me any more of that biased against the south crap.




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