RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimers

RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimers (Full Version)

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DomKen -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimers (3/2/2014 11:24:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub No he tried the door... There was no danger...No kicking in... no shoulder against the door. There is just no way to justify this shooting. Butch BULL... wait for it... SHIT. You and the gundiot gang are playing with hindsight, which is a nifty luxury not available to the person dealing with an intruder in the dark. The basis of the castle doctrine is that the law doesn't get to second guess the decisions of a lawful resident dealing with an intruder. It goes for internet whiners as well. Clean shooting. Case closed. Get over it. If somebody decides to keep the Alzheimer's patient at home, keep track of them. If someone is to blame, it's the family of the dead guy. Not castle doctrine since it wasn't inside the man's home.

BamaD -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimers (3/2/2014 11:28:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub But... there was NO attempt to break in so there was NO excuse to confront and kill... The police would have taken care of the situation if given a chance. Let me tell you a story... Many years ago as a young man I had a job with my local municipality. One blizzard on a deserted country road... long after midnight... my truck broke down. Back before cell phones and even radios in trucks I had little choice but to hike up a framers road and knock on the door to use their phone. It was very cold and I was in danger of exposure if I did not get help. I had to knock and knock...and knock some more before through the door I heard the farmer ask who it was. Yes I asked him to call a number for me... I did not ask to come in... He did i survived... But if knocking on the door was an excuse to kill I would not be telling this story. Butch Did he tell you to go away when you didn't identify yourself followed by you going around to the back door. Did you advance on him with a weapon in you hand after being warned not to three times (and yes a flashlight can be a lethal weapon)? Maybe the parallel isn't as direct as you would like to pretend. He didn't shoot him for knocking on the door it was for the other things I just pointed out. Had you done those things you wouldn't be here to make silly arguments.

BamaD -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimers (3/2/2014 11:29:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub No he tried the door... There was no danger...No kicking in... no shoulder against the door. There is just no way to justify this shooting. Butch BULL... wait for it... SHIT. You and the gundiot gang are playing with hindsight, which is a nifty luxury not available to the person dealing with an intruder in the dark. The basis of the castle doctrine is that the law doesn't get to second guess the decisions of a lawful resident dealing with an intruder. It goes for internet whiners as well. Clean shooting. Case closed. Get over it. If somebody decides to keep the Alzheimer's patient at home, keep track of them. If someone is to blame, it's the family of the dead guy. Not castle doctrine since it wasn't inside the man's home. Yes Castle doctrine since it was on his property.

DomKen -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimers (3/2/2014 11:32:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub No he tried the door... There was no danger...No kicking in... no shoulder against the door. There is just no way to justify this shooting. Butch BULL... wait for it... SHIT. You and the gundiot gang are playing with hindsight, which is a nifty luxury not available to the person dealing with an intruder in the dark. The basis of the castle doctrine is that the law doesn't get to second guess the decisions of a lawful resident dealing with an intruder. It goes for internet whiners as well. Clean shooting. Case closed. Get over it. If somebody decides to keep the Alzheimer's patient at home, keep track of them. If someone is to blame, it's the family of the dead guy. Not castle doctrine since it wasn't inside the man's home. Yes Castle doctrine since it was on his property. No. Castle doctrine is inside the home only.

kdsub -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimers (3/2/2014 11:38:47 AM)
Nope and he didn't come outside like a yahoo looking for me with a gun either. There are many situations where gun owners can be defended this is not one of them Bama. Second... other reports of the tragedy do NOT say he went around back... only that the gunman went out the back to confront him... But even if he did knock on the back door... why do you think that is an excuse to kill anyone! Why is knocking on the door a capital offense... why take a life so carelessly...why do you insist on defending an obvious egregious use of a weapon that displays gun owners in such a bad light? Butch

BamaD -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimers (3/2/2014 11:39:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub No he tried the door... There was no danger...No kicking in... no shoulder against the door. There is just no way to justify this shooting. Butch BULL... wait for it... SHIT. You and the gundiot gang are playing with hindsight, which is a nifty luxury not available to the person dealing with an intruder in the dark. The basis of the castle doctrine is that the law doesn't get to second guess the decisions of a lawful resident dealing with an intruder. It goes for internet whiners as well. Clean shooting. Case closed. Get over it. If somebody decides to keep the Alzheimer's patient at home, keep track of them. If someone is to blame, it's the family of the dead guy. Not castle doctrine since it wasn't inside the man's home. Yes Castle doctrine since it was on his property. No. Castle doctrine is inside the home only. Wrong again, I know that here it extends to your property line, and I believe it does most places.

BamaD -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimers (3/2/2014 11:42:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Nope and he didn't come outside like a yahoo looking for me with a gun either. There are many situations where gun owners can be defended this is not one of them Bama. Second... other reports of the tragedy do NOT say he went around back... only that the gunman went out the back to confront him... But even if he did knock on the back door... why do you think that is an excuse to kill anyone! Why is knocking on the door a capital offense... why take a life so carelessly...why do you insist on defending an obvious egregious use of a weapon that displays gun owners in such a bad light? Butch The point were he decided to shoot came after he had warned the man not once, not twice, but three times to stop advancing on him why do you ignore that this is the key element in the shooting?

Lucylastic -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimers (3/2/2014 11:47:26 AM)
KD thankyou for making sense... i cant add anything you and Ken have said. For people to be so blase about the death of a sick man makes me sick.

TheHeretic -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimers (3/2/2014 11:48:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen No. Castle doctrine is inside the home only. That depends on the state. It can be anything from inside the walls of the primary residence, to the complete curtilage.

TheHeretic -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimers (3/2/2014 11:55:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD why do you ignore that this is the key element in the shooting? Because facts don't matter, and are frequently counterproductive to the gundiot POV. The wife and I were talking about this over breakfast. We are glad we have big dogs.

cloudboy -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimersquiquit (3/2/2014 12:41:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic KD thankyou for making sense... i cant add anything you and Ken have said. For people to be so blase about the death of a sick man makes me sick. By calling it a "clean" shooting, one gets the idea that respondents here would have done the same thing. They don't see a dope with a gun. Look at this case and think of the odds. All you need is one gun nut per jury to acquit.

BamaD -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimersquiquit (3/2/2014 12:43:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic KD thankyou for making sense... i cant add anything you and Ken have said. For people to be so blase about the death of a sick man makes me sick. By calling it a "clean" shooting, one gets the idea that respondents here would have done the same thing. They don't see a dope with a gun. Look at this case and think of the odds. All you need is one gun nut per jury to acquit. Or 12 sane people. Your accounting would mean a hung jury. I know this is difficult to follow but a hung jury and an acquittal are not the same thing.

cloudboy -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimersquiquit (3/2/2014 12:58:12 PM)
Thanks for making that important point. I will wait to see who gets convicted after the first hung jury.

BamaD -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimersquiquit (3/2/2014 1:01:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy Thanks for making that important point. I will wait to see who gets convicted after the first hung jury. That should be Dunn

TheHeretic -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimersquiquit (3/2/2014 1:05:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy By calling it a "clean" shooting, one gets the idea that respondents here would have done the same thing. That's a consequence of lumping anybody who disagrees with you into a single category, and using hate speech to describe them. As I mentioned above, we have big dogs on the premises, so no, we wouldn't have handled it the same way. The dogs would have gone out first, and I've had followed with the 4-cell maglite (a damn good weapon btw) and the wife covering me with her 9mm, with the phone on speaker and her cussing 911 for the shitty ass response time. But that is me, in my house. He was in his, and the decisions he made are his own. Now then, would any of the gundiots care to answer for why the crazy old man was out wandering the streets?

TheHeretic -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimersquiquit (3/2/2014 2:02:14 PM)
C'mon now, chop chop, kids. Can't we clearly see this as an indictment of all care providers? Obviously, we need registration, and background checks, though it might be best to just require all Alzheimer's victims be institutionalized, because we can see from this case that nobody is qualified to handle the responsibility.

lovmuffin -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimersquiquit (3/2/2014 2:23:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic KD thankyou for making sense... i cant add anything you and Ken have said. For people to be so blase about the death of a sick man makes me sick. By calling it a "clean" shooting, one gets the idea that respondents here would have done the same thing. They don't see a dope with a gun. Look at this case and think of the odds. All you need is one gun nut per jury to acquit. Still painting all gun owners with that same broad brush I see. Had it been me I highly doubt that I would have shot the guy but then I wasn't there either and I don't know what was going on in the mind of the shooter. And another thing is you keep lumping in other incidences with this one. No two scenarios are exactly the same. Would I have shot some skittle eating thug pummeling my head into the concrete ? Probably I would have. Would I have gotten into the same situation as Zimmerman in the first place ? I highly doubt it. There were 2 times I've mentioned before where I had a hand on my gun ready to draw but a third time comes to mind. I was upstairs talking to my room mate when the door opened and someone started coming up the stairs. I retrieved my revolver and stood ready. They guy gets to the top of the steps and it turns out he's a friend in a drunken state. You'd think he would have had the courtesy to knock. I thought I would wait to see who my target was but for a minute there, me and my room mate were scared shitless.

cloudboy -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimersquiquit (3/2/2014 2:52:25 PM)
It might help if you called this particular shooter a reckless dope lacking in both common sense and courage.

kdsub -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimersquiquit (3/2/2014 2:53:42 PM)
I can't believe you are trying to blame the victim or his family. I don't know about the rest commenting here but I believe that over the last 15 years there has been a concerted effort on the part of republican policy makers to gain votes with scare tactics when it comes to gun control. I agree no more gun laws are needed if the NRA and the Republican party would come out against the irresponsible use of guns. But instead they are encouraging this wild west type of behavior....And initiating legislation to promote it…not because it is needed but to get votes. How many threads have we had like this where senseless tragedies are killing innocents… too many for me. All I hear are the same old crap about gun rights and the need for personal protection… Will it seems the only protection needed is from fellow gun nuts. I want my guns… I want to keep my rights… but if this killing goes on much longer the majority will take your toys away…and I don’t want that. Butch

TheHeretic -> RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimersquiquit (3/2/2014 3:13:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub I can't believe you are trying to blame the victim or his family. While I'm completely unsurprised that nobody on the gundiot front is prepared to have their methodology thrown back in their faces. Whoever was responsible for the care of the dead guy failed. What's hard?

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