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RE: Duty to retreat... - 3/10/2014 1:03:27 PM   
BamaD


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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Even a dog is allowed the right of self defense shouldn't people have as many rights as a dog.

A silly tangent, and untrue. A dog bites, and it's all over.

Wrong again here a dog gets one free bite, and circumstances could provide more.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Duty to retreat... - 3/10/2014 1:28:49 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Then it works different where you live. And once again, your view does not equal fiat reality.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Duty to retreat... - 3/10/2014 1:32:59 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Then it works different where you live. And once again, your view does not equal fiat reality.

It is at least as valid as yours.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Duty to retreat... - 3/10/2014 4:30:19 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		You didn't understand what I wrote. Try reading it again.

You saw something other than what was there. Why? Because your opinion about what it was going to be interfered with you reading what it says in reality.



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 3/10/2014 4:31:19 PM >

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Duty to retreat... - 3/10/2014 4:37:37 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

You didn't understand what I wrote. Try reading it again.

You saw something other than what was there. Why? Because your opinion about what it was going to be interfered with you reading what it says in reality.



I understood perfectly, my view of reality is at least as valid as yours, maybe you should read again, sounds like projection to me.
And I have no more claimed fiat reality than you have. In fact this little exchange began with your absolute
proclamation that I didn't know what I was talking about because it's not that way where you live.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Duty to retreat... - 3/10/2014 4:38:24 PM   
LorraineCA


Posts: 114
Joined: 12/10/2013
Status: offline 		I'm talking about a non-threatening person who goes into your house, opens your refrigerator, sits at the table and eats. NON-THREATENING

Besides, why would you want to shoot a poor non-threatening homeless individual who is hungry and goes into your house?

Self-defense as a Legal Defense Under California Criminal Law

< Message edited by LorraineCA -- 3/10/2014 4:43:18 PM >

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Duty to retreat... - 3/10/2014 4:39:48 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		Well, considering that fixed fortifications are a testament to insanity, to avoid the necessity of retreat on my own property I have been looking at modernized fortress style castle designs.

As far as retreating in another location, given the state self defense laws, I cant use deadly force unless the attacker has a deadly weapon, which can be a knife, baseball bat, crowbar, gun etc. Anything that legally fits the description as qualified by the criminal code. FYI in many states, that can include a vehicle.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Duty to retreat... - 3/10/2014 4:46:03 PM   
BamaD


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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LorraineCA

I'm talking about a non-threatening person who goes into your house, opens your refrigerator, sits at the table and eats. NON-THREATENING

Besides, why would you want to shoot a poor non-threatening homeless individual who is hungry and goes into your house?

Self-defense as a Legal Defense Under California Criminal Law

He thinks that he has a right to anything I own, when the cops arrived he would have a butcher knife in his
cold dead hand.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to LorraineCA)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Duty to retreat... - 3/10/2014 4:46:18 PM   
freedomdwarf1


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Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LorraineCA

I'm talking about a non-threatening person who goes into your house, opens your refrigerator, sits at the table and eats. NON-THREATENING

Besides, why would you want to shoot a poor non-threatening homeless individual who is hungry and goes into your house?

Self-defense as a Legal Defense Under California Criminal Law

Perhaps you missed this bit (from your link) -
"California self-defense law also encompasses the right to use force to defend your property from harm. This right covers both real property (like a house or land) and personal property (money, cars, jewelry, etc.)"
That means the homeowner is able to lawfully restrain and/or use force to protect their property.
So... your intruder raiding your fridge is being a threat.

(in reply to LorraineCA)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Duty to retreat... - 3/10/2014 8:04:31 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

You didn't understand what I wrote. Try reading it again.

You saw something other than what was there. Why? Because your opinion about what it was going to be interfered with you reading what it says in reality.



I understood perfectly, my view of reality is at least as valid as yours, maybe you should read again, sounds like projection to me.
And I have no more claimed fiat reality than you have. In fact this little exchange began with your absolute
proclamation that I didn't know what I was talking about because it's not that way where you live.

And you still missed it again, even with the heads up.

You aren't even on the same issue.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Duty to retreat... - 3/10/2014 8:29:37 PM   
MrBukani


Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline 		Americans without guns are like girls without smartphones. They don't know what to do without them.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Duty to retreat... - 3/10/2014 8:31:51 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Then it works different where you live. And once again, your view does not equal fiat reality.

It is at least as valid as yours.

Things work different in different states, never said my view = fiat reality but neither does yours.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Duty to retreat... - 3/10/2014 8:36:51 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Wrong while you may or may not have participated in it all your allies were up in arms wanting a man to be jailed for shooting an intruder who pushed into their home at 1 am


Can you cite any evidence of that?



I have brought anti gun allies in Maryland thread for your review so you can see your contention is full of holes.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Duty to retreat... - 3/10/2014 10:07:08 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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Joined: 8/9/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

unfortunately by all these "terms" are not set out, but left to interpretation by the gun owners "feelings" at the time and subject to bullshit claims when they fuck up
Mental health issues are being ignored as always
anger, paranoia, self righteousness that says your life is more valuable than anyone appearing to be looking to hurt you.


WHOAH!!!!!

Back up.

The OP was talking about any number of options that essentially give the right to protect.....your own.

Didn't even propose an opinion.

I'll state mine. None of which have/has anything to do with mental health (mine included).

Guy comes to my home, acts threatening....I have a sign on my front door...."I have several guns, in multiple locations. They are here for your protection, not mine".

If someone crosses the threshold....errantly....I don't care if it was a mistake on their behalf.

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Duty to retreat... - 3/10/2014 10:20:01 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LorraineCA

I'm talking about a non-threatening person who goes into your house, opens your refrigerator, sits at the table and eats. NON-THREATENING




Once the person enters the home without authorization, any determination as to "threatening" is strictly at the discretion of the lawful resident. That decision is not subject to second-guessing by the courts, and is immune from civil action by the family of the deceased, if it goes that way.

The hypothetical doesn't work for my home. The dogs would force the issue, long before s/he got near the refrigerator.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to LorraineCA)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Duty to retreat... - 3/10/2014 10:21:00 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Then it works different where you live. And once again, your view does not equal fiat reality.

It is at least as valid as yours.

Things work different in different states, never said my view = fiat reality but neither does yours.

Still looking for issue? Keep trying.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Duty to retreat... - 3/11/2014 3:31:28 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

your life is more valuable than anyone appearing to be looking to hurt you.


I hold that truth to be self-evident

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Duty to retreat... - 3/11/2014 4:01:13 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		selective editing is your bullshit response?

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(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
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\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
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(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Duty to retreat... - 3/11/2014 5:14:07 PM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
I have brought anti gun allies in Maryland thread for your review so you can see your contention is full of holes.


Wasn't that the one where if the guy got himself shot kicking in the door *shrug* but it seemed an awful like that's not what happened. Don't I recall something about the homeowner letting the victim in, getting into an argument with him and then gunning the victim down outside while he tried to flee?

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Duty to retreat... - 3/11/2014 6:21:18 PM   
LorraineCA


Posts: 114
Joined: 12/10/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: LorraineCA

I'm talking about a non-threatening person who goes into your house, opens your refrigerator, sits at the table and eats. NON-THREATENING




Once the person enters the home without authorization, any determination as to "threatening" is strictly at the discretion of the lawful resident. That decision is not subject to second-guessing by the courts, and is immune from civil action by the family of the deceased, if it goes that way.

The hypothetical doesn't work for my home. The dogs would force the issue, long before s/he got near the refrigerator.


Why can't I do this hypothetical scene?

"Hey Judy, come on over I would like to talk to you."
Judy comes over.
"Judy, I hate your guts."
Crack her over the head with a hammer.
Call 911
"Judy was trespassing."


< Message edited by LorraineCA -- 3/11/2014 6:37:20 PM >

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 60
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