quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Still if he had used two brain cells he could have avoided this.

You think this South African should behave in a smarter way than the trigger happy Americans you constantly defend? There are many cases in the U.S. where if the shooter had just had two brain cells the death of an innocent person could have been avoided. What's different here that you are singing such a different song? So do you think Americans just lack brain cells to begin with, so there should be no expectation of proper thinking during confrontations in the U.S.? How sad that you have such a low opinion of Americans. [&:]

I realize that this fact has eluded you since I have pointed it out three times already but in none of those cases you so glibly refer to did the American shoot without seeing his target.

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Still if he had used two brain cells he could have avoided this.

You think this South African should behave in a smarter way than the trigger happy Americans you constantly defend? There are many cases in the U.S. where if the shooter had just had two brain cells the death of an innocent person could have been avoided. What's different here that you are singing such a different song? So do you think Americans just lack brain cells to begin with, so there should be no expectation of proper thinking during confrontations in the U.S.? How sad that you have such a low opinion of Americans. [&:]

I realize that this fact has eluded you since I have pointed it out three times already but in none of those cases you so glibly refer to did the American shoot without seeing his target.

In at least one of the U.S. cases if the shooter had not purposely put themselves in danger they would not have seen their target. But obviously you think Americans are stupider to begin with so they don't need to be held to the same standards as others.

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Still if he had used two brain cells he could have avoided this.

You think this South African should behave in a smarter way than the trigger happy Americans you constantly defend? There are many cases in the U.S. where if the shooter had just had two brain cells the death of an innocent person could have been avoided. What's different here that you are singing such a different song? So do you think Americans just lack brain cells to begin with, so there should be no expectation of proper thinking during confrontations in the U.S.? How sad that you have such a low opinion of Americans. [&:]

I realize that this fact has eluded you since I have pointed it out three times already but in none of those cases you so glibly refer to did the American shoot without seeing his target.

In at least one of the U.S. cases if the shooter had not purposely put themselves in danger they would not have seen their target. But obviously you think Americans are stupider to begin with so they don't need to be held to the same standards as others.

quote:

Prosecutors have not disclosed a motive for the alleged murder, but one of their witnesses may testify that Pistorius had a temper. Soccer star Marc Batchelor says Pistorius threatened to break his legs in a fury over his belief that Batchelor's friend, producer Quinton Van Der Burgh, had slept with his ex-girlfriend.

Batchelor also says Steenkamp's friends believed Pistorius was trying to find out if she had been in contact with her ex-boyfriend, Warren Lahoud. Just 36 hours before she was shot, she met Lahoud for coffee.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

Why do you insist on ignoring TOS and make me the subject, particularly when on this case I agree with you?

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ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

Why do you insist on ignoring TOS and make me the subject, particularly when on this case I agree with you?

It just troubles me that justice in your mind plays out very differently in South Africa vs. the U.S. and I am trying to understand why. It seems to me the same standards of murder vs. manslaughter vs. self-defense apply. I don't really understand why Pistorius figures differently in your mind. What is it about this case that seems so different - are we not all ultimately discussing this case and whether self-defense makes sense in this context?

To me, if someone stopping to think might have created a different outcome, especially the death of someone, I think we should all, as human beings, ask that of someone. To ask some people, but not others to "stop and think" seems inherently unfair, and I'm trying to understand why "stopping and thinking" is absolutely required here (when he is claiming self defense), but not in other self defense cases where there was no imminent danger.

Now, of course, this is all somewhat moot, because the actual facts of this case don't support an intruder.

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

So he was overheard arguing with his girlfriend (surely Pistorius could recognize the voice of his gf even through the locked bathroom door), but he still wants to claim it was an intruder?

And while not dispositive we have this from nbc:

quote:

Prosecutors have not disclosed a motive for the alleged murder, but one of their witnesses may testify that Pistorius had a temper. Soccer star Marc Batchelor says Pistorius threatened to break his legs in a fury over his belief that Batchelor's friend, producer Quinton Van Der Burgh, had slept with his ex-girlfriend.

Batchelor also says Steenkamp's friends believed Pistorius was trying to find out if she had been in contact with her ex-boyfriend, Warren Lahoud. Just 36 hours before she was shot, she met Lahoud for coffee.

So we have a known violent and jealous man who ends up in an argument with his gf 36 hours after she was in contact with an ex-bf and while in the middle of the argument gun shots are heard. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to map this one out.

Although it begs the question of whether she would be dead if there was not a gun in the house? For all of you who feel guns in the hands of trained gun owners never cause danger to one's family, explain that one to me in the context of this case. She might have suffered a beating at his hands if there was no gun, but surely he would not have shot her through the bathroom door four times without a gun because it just would not have been possible. And now he might go down for murder. How exactly did a gun in the home make him and his gf safer? Dead or a long prison sentence doesn't sound so great to me. Call me crazy. [sm=2cents.gif]

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ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

FR

Someone explain to me how a gun in the home made Pistorius and his gf safer that night.

Someone explain to me how owning and knowing how to use a gun keeps people from losing their temper and shooting a loved one.

Someone explain to me how owning and knowing how to use a gun keeps people from using a gun to solve interpersonal disputes. [sm=2cents.gif]

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

FR

Someone explain to me how a gun in the home made Pistorius and his gf safer that night.

Someone explain to me how owning and knowing how to use a gun keeps people from losing their temper and shooting a loved one.

Someone explain to me how owning and knowing how to use a gun keeps people from using a gun to solve interpersonal disputes. [sm=2cents.gif]

I have owned guns for 50 years.
I have never even had the urge to do these things.
I have trained better than a dozen people, none of them have misused or carelessly used a firearm.
I suspect the kind of training I had and have given could have something to do with it.
Please explain how knowing how to use a butcher knife keeps someone from losing their temper and using
them against a loved one .
Explain to me how knowing how to use a butcher knife keeps someone from using them to "solve"
interpersonal problems.
The failure to understand this is a symptom of gunaphobia.

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ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

FR

Someone explain to me how a gun in the home made Pistorius and his gf safer that night.

Someone explain to me how owning and knowing how to use a gun keeps people from losing their temper and shooting a loved one.

Someone explain to me how owning and knowing how to use a gun keeps people from using a gun to solve interpersonal disputes. [sm=2cents.gif]

I have owned guns for 50 years.
I have never even had the urge to do these things.
I have trained better than a dozen people, none of them have misused or carelessly used a firearm.
I suspect the kind of training I had and have given could have something to do with it.
Please explain how knowing how to use a butcher knife keeps someone from losing their temper and using
them against a loved one .
Explain to me how knowing how to use a butcher knife keeps someone from using them to "solve"
interpersonal problems.
The failure to understand this is a symptom of gunaphobia.

I am still talking about the Pistorius case. I have no doubt in my mind his gf would still be alive if Pistorius did not keep a gun in the house. Do you really think otherwise? I don't know of any evidence that he went after her with a butcher knife either before or after she locked herself in the bathroom. Why did he choose the gun to attack her with when any number of other things could have been used. There is something about the very presence of the gun in the household that both increases the probability that someone will use it and that someone will use to cause injury. There were any number of other things in a house (I am sure) that he could have tried using against her….but he didn't. He used the one thing that pretty much guaranteed her death in a locked room with TWO phones. Any other choice of weapon and she might have had a chance of actually calling for help. The choice of weapon in this particular case did, in fact, make a difference. A choice that is removed if a gun is simply not there. [sm=2cents.gif]

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

If he wanted to murder his gf he would have found a way, you have displayed another symptom of gunaphobia,
namely the believe that murder flows from the instrument(if it is a firearm) rather than from the decision to kill.
You are not talking about this case (though I admit you think you are) but rather are trying to use this case to
promote you anti guns in the U S agenda. This case is no more than a stalking horse for you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

If he wanted to murder his gf he would have found a way, you have displayed another symptom of gunaphobia,
namely the believe that murder flows from the instrument(if it is a firearm) rather than from the decision to kill.
You are not talking about this case (though I admit you think you are) but rather are trying to use this case to
promote you anti guns in the U S agenda. This case is no more than a stalking horse for you.

I am implying nothing of the sort. I am saying, based on the facts in front of us, she would not have been dead if there was no gun in the house. End of story. A gun culture promotes gun deaths.

You are the one who keeps raising the U.S. I am talking about SOUTH AFRICA where this case occurred.

http://www.policymic.com/articles/60561/18-people-get-murdered-every-day-in-south-africa-now-tell-me-how-guns-don-t-kill-people

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Still if he had used two brain cells he could have avoided this.

You think this South African should behave in a smarter way than the trigger happy Americans you constantly defend? There are many cases in the U.S. where if the shooter had just had two brain cells the death of an innocent person could have been avoided. What's different here that you are singing such a different song? So do you think Americans just lack brain cells to begin with, so there should be no expectation of proper thinking during confrontations in the U.S.? How sad that you have such a low opinion of Americans. [&:]

I realize that this fact has eluded you since I have pointed it out three times already but in none of those cases you so glibly refer to did the American shoot without seeing his target.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Go back and read you were obsessed with my stand on American cases.
And to blame an inanimate object is irrational.

quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Go back and read you were obsessed with my stand on American cases.
And to blame an inanimate object is irrational.

Uh no. I was talking about self defense with an intruder in the earlier posts NOT guns. And then I clearly stated: Now, of course, this is all somewhat moot, because the actual facts of this case don't support an intruder. I then also posted about a plausible motive for him being ANGRY at his gf.

Only after that did I start discussing how unfortunate it was that there was a gun in the house because under these set of facts: no intruder, argument with gf, they both would have been better off without a gun in the house. And I stand by that statement.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


The other factor here is that the victim was a white woman who was the shooter's girlfriend. Jurors and law enforcement officers are more sympathetic to white women, and the fact that it was his girlfriend negates most of the bases for "reasonable fear."

I like Bama's point, namely, how can you shoot someone whom you have not identified and who is in the bathroom behind a closed door. An intruder is not likely to head to the bathroom while committing a B&E.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


I respect your right to argue for the sides you chose. You are an indefatigable advocate.

All these cases and the evidence I see further convinces me to stay away from guns, whereas for you, gun ownership = safety and self defense.