quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Link to the police reports please

What? The statements from the authorities to the media not good enough?

Not if they don't say he is a mad dog killer

quote:

ORIGANAL: Musicmystery
.....at least charges considered...

quote:

ORIGINAL:
..... I *do* support responsible *control* of firearms and law enforcement -- stamped ammunition, for example, safety classes, background checks in all instances. I'm not fond of concealed carry or handguns for that matter, but can live with sensible legislation. And reality is, most gun owners are responsible. It's the idiots that make legislation necessary, just as, say, drunk driving laws. I know...enter the tired Constitution argument, pretending regulated isn't in there. Let's not do that yet again.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


You really don't think they are considering that ?

quote:


What is stamped ammunition and for what purpose ?

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I have said in the past I would shoot an armed intruder, but not unarmed one, if I knew for a fact the intruder was unarmed.

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Dad's not a mad dog. He's an idiot. Having a gun made him a deadly idiot. Yup, I get, and so does everyone else, that the actions and words of the daughter and dead kid didn't help, to say the least, but any dad with a lick of sense knows his kids are not reliable sources of information, especially when there's another teen in the bed. Jesus fucking Christ. Hello! And no one is even saying he's guilty--they're saying he should be tried, at least charges considered. It's the "he's an innocent victim" rhetoric that riles.

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ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I have said in the past I would shoot an armed intruder, but not unarmed one, if I knew for a fact the intruder was unarmed.

If there is an intruder in my home they have two seconds to ID themselves, failing that, I send them to St. Peter via muzzle flare (Period).

Jus sayin
Exiled

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Dad's not a mad dog. He's an idiot. Having a gun made him a deadly idiot. Yup, I get, and so does everyone else, that the actions and words of the daughter and dead kid didn't help, to say the least, but any dad with a lick of sense knows his kids are not reliable sources of information, especially when there's another teen in the bed. Jesus fucking Christ. Hello! And no one is even saying he's guilty--they're saying he should be tried, at least charges considered. It's the "he's an innocent victim" rhetoric that riles.

"any dad with a lick of sense knows his kids are not reliable sources of information"

Seriously?

I always knew my kids would lie about little shit, but nothing like this. Add to that I have a low opinion of teens today, but I cannot believe the majority would lie knowing a kid could go to jail for her stupidity, especially in the absence of any sign of forced entry.



Add to that, the father had already called police, was waiting for police to arrive, and there was an argument going on, most probably the boy calling the girl a lying bitch.

No that boy should not be dead. The dad fucked up, reacting to a situation created by his daughter and compounded by her lies.

if a police officer did the same thing, for the same reasons, in front of witnesses, it would be considered a clean shoot

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

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ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


You really don't think they are considering that ?

Out of the DA office's mouth. Read something.

Ultimately, up to the Grand Jury, but no, the prosecution is giving him a pass.

So the grand jury is considering it.

quote:


What is stamped ammunition and for what purpose ?

You don't even *know* the gun control issues of the day -- how are you going to have informed positions on them?

This isn't even a "new" thing. Old news.

I'm not familiar with it, so what. In California no less.



"Stamped casing can only be traced to the last registered owner, not to the person who used the gun when the casings were stamped. In the case of a stolen gun, as is the case for most firearms used in crime, the stamped case would not lead to the criminal.
Unscrupulous individuals could collect discarded brass from a firing range and salt crime scenes with microstamped cases, thereby providing false evidence against innocent people and increasing the workload for investigators.
High costs for testing the efficacy of the technique must be passed on to customers, increasing the cost of firearms for those who obtain them legally.
Microstamping is easily defeated. Diamond coated files are inexpensive and will remove microstamping. Firing pins are normally replaceable and can be changed with simple tools or without tools. Firing a large number of rounds will wear down the microstamp.Marked components such as slides, barrels, firing pins and ejectors are all easily and commonly replaced items.
Microstamping is an immature, sole source technology, and has not been subjected to sufficient independent testing. Transfer of microstamped marks to the cases is less reliable than proponents claim.
Microstamping would be irrelevant/non-applicable for implementation of revolvers as these types of weapons do not eject shell cases necessarily.

Firearms sold to law-enforcement are exempt. Problems could arise if a police officer's firearm is used in a crime or stolen, and the fact that a firearm is "unsafe" if not provided with stamping technology exposes the police to liability.
Guns manufactured before an effective date are exempt and the bill does not extend to guns outside of California. There's no possibility that this bill would ever cover enough guns to provide the investigative advantage claimed for it by the proponents."



Is this what you're talking about ? Is that informed enough for ya ?

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

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ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I have said in the past I would shoot an armed intruder, but not unarmed one, if I knew for a fact the intruder was unarmed.

If there is an intruder in my home they have two seconds to ID themselves, failing that, I send them to St. Peter via muzzle flare (Period).

Jus sayin
Exiled

I have two large wolf hybrid dogs, once they get hold of the intruder, it is going to take a lot longer than two seconds for me to get anything from him.

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Good. Now look up Perfectionist Fallacy.

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Ah. The red herring. Nice choice of fallacy. And mixed nicely with ad hominem for that extra irrelevant flavor.

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ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

I appreciate your clarifying things.

I do want to point out that if we cut the dad some slack for possibly having a faulty physiological response, then don't we have to cut the same slack for the boy for lowering his arms?
Humans don't always do the most logical things when in life or death situations.

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

FR
People are willing to do things they don't want to do if they have to.

The trouble is, he didn't have to.

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ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies

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ORIGINAL: Kirata

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ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies

the real victim here is the dead kid

But the living are always the ones who suffer.

K.

my sympathies are with the kids family and friends, and with the daughter but I am struggling to have too much sympathy for the father. They will most likely ( and I hope they do)get over the pain and anguish they are currently feeling but the kid is not getting over being dead anytime soon is he?

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ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

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ORIGANAL: Musicmystery
.....at least charges considered...

You really don't think they are considering that ?

quote:

ORIGINAL:
..... I *do* support responsible *control* of firearms and law enforcement -- stamped ammunition, for example, safety classes, background checks in all instances. I'm not fond of concealed carry or handguns for that matter, but can live with sensible legislation. And reality is, most gun owners are responsible. It's the idiots that make legislation necessary, just as, say, drunk driving laws. I know...enter the tired Constitution argument, pretending regulated isn't in there. Let's not do that yet again.

What is stamped ammunition and for what purpose ?

I'm all for background checks but other than that I don't hear much of anything sensible coming from the gun control types.

The word regulated in the Second Amendment has nothing to do with regulating guns.

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Link to the police reports please

What? The statements from the authorities to the media not good enough?

Not if they don't say he is a mad dog killer

The reason you and your pal see yourself surrounded by unreasonable people is your propensity to paint extremes. There's never middle ground, no sense of proportion, no allowance for degrees, just black and white simplicity. Statements like these.

And while you two are riled up about knee jerk responses to killings, whether you realize it or not, you *do* automatically side with anyone holding a gun in these situations, and hence, spin information to support that rationalization, convinced you're surrounded by demons determined to come for your guns, and that if they're limited in any fashion, that equals no more guns.

Dad's not a mad dog. He's an idiot. Having a gun made him a deadly idiot. Yup, I get, and so does everyone else, that the actions and words of the daughter and dead kid didn't help, to say the least, but any dad with a lick of sense knows his kids are not reliable sources of information, especially when there's another teen in the bed. Jesus fucking Christ. Hello! And no one is even saying he's guilty--they're saying he should be tried, at least charges considered. It's the "he's an innocent victim" rhetoric that riles.

Surprise -- I'm not in favor of eliminating guns. My (very responsible) neighbors frequently own guns -- generally *useful* guns, primarily hunting rifles, and if not guns, hunting bows. I *do* support responsible *control* of firearms and law enforcement -- stamped ammunition, for example, safety classes, background checks in all instances. I'm not fond of concealed carry or handguns for that matter, but can live with sensible legislation. And reality is, most gun owners are responsible. It's the idiots that make legislation necessary, just as, say, drunk driving laws. I know...enter the tired Constitution argument, pretending regulated isn't in there. Let's not do that yet again.

When I see the NRA and/or gun owners stepping up and saying not "No gun control!" but "The guy was an idiot--we need to prevent this so that guns are safe for honest Americans," I'll be interested and, depending on what they come up with, even supportive.

Until then, you guys own the knee jerk, like it or not.