Can overeating be an addiction? (Full Version)

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MercTech -> Can overeating be an addiction? (3/17/2014 9:33:25 PM)

Yes, there is another fat thread running but rather than sidetrack that thread I thought to start one on whether overeating can be an addiction or not.

Personally, I think it can be but not all obesity is caused by addictive behavior. But, it can be.

Compulsive overeaters are eating not out of hunger but as a coping mechanism. It isn't lack of self control but a case of slow destruction by socially acceptable drug. (Overeating and some trigger foods, like chocolate, make changes in brain chemistry usually associated with addictive drugs only not as strongly.)

Often, overeating is brought on by a case of the "toos":
Too angry
Too lonely
Too tired
Too bored
Too full of self loathing
Too depressed.
Too fed up with all this psychobabble. <grin>

Think about how you cope with stress. As a kid, were you offered a treat when you were upset? Would you rather have a coke and candy bar when worn out than a stiff drink?

Compulsive overeating to deal with life kills you by inches over decades rather than quickly with a needle.

From Psychology Today
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/inside-out/201309/emotional-eating-5-reasons-you-can-t-stop

Link to Overeater's Anonymous

http://www.oa.org/


BTW, my drug of choice for coping with life is peanut M&Ms




ExiledTyrant -> RE: Can overeating be an addiction? (3/17/2014 9:54:00 PM)

It would have made a good poll.

Jus sayin
Exiled




MercTech -> RE: Can overeating be an addiction? (3/17/2014 9:55:32 PM)

Meh, I don't do games or polls.




ExiledTyrant -> RE: Can overeating be an addiction? (3/17/2014 9:57:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

Meh, I don't do games or polls.


Fuddy duddy.

Jus sayin
Exiled




shiftyw -> RE: Can overeating be an addiction? (3/17/2014 10:04:43 PM)

I feel like, I obviously view overeating as an addiction (I mean from the other thread I assume this is related to).




FrostedFlake -> RE: Can overeating be an addiction? (3/18/2014 12:46:28 AM)

Addiction is probably too glib a way to put it. Too glib because it blames the food. When obviously, the problem isn't the food. It isn't jumping onto the fork. It is the excess eating that causes the excess eating. It would be more accurate to view it as an emotional problem, rather than a dependance problem.

Disclosure. I'm using the middle of the three worn notches on my 30 year old belt. It's not an accident. I alter my diet to match my activities. If you are fat, you don't. That would be the only thing to change.

A couple thoughts.

Ice cream = sugar and fat.

Chips = fried, salted fat.

Salad = veggies.

Nuts = the right balance of protien, (plant) fat and carbs.

Extend this list as far as you like, then divide into two groups. Foods likely to be abused. Foods unlikely to be abused. You have just written your menu.




MissMorrigan -> RE: Can overeating be an addiction? (3/18/2014 1:22:37 AM)

That isn't necessarily correct. It is well documented that eating certain food groups such as fats and sugar combined induce a chemical alteration in the brain which is similar to that experienced by alcoholics. There is also considerable research on rodents in relation to food types and once fats/sugars were introduced to their diet they would ignore the healthier options and eat only the fats and sugars which would make them obese/ill. That isn't emotionally driven behaviour, it's a dependence on keeping dopamine levels high.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FrostedFlake
Addiction is probably too glib a way to put it. Too glib because it blames the food. When obviously, the problem isn't the food. It isn't jumping onto the fork. It is the excess eating that causes the excess eating. It would be more accurate to view it as an emotional problem, rather than a dependance problem.


@MercTech, I agree entirely that while not all obesity can be attributed to addictive behaviour, certainly some can be. There are several classifications of over-eater and some people do others a disservice by attributing a blanket perception to everyone that is obese. Stats for bariatric surgery are alarmingly high, yet the criteria for qualifying for this surgery is also high and those who are emotional over-eaters do not qualify for this surgery here in the UK. Eating disorders are characterised by a significant change in eating habits and more attention needs to be placed on why these disturbances occur. The food industry also needs to take responsibility - the syrups and fats used in much of our processed foods are designed to make the food more palatable, keeping blood sugars high. It's worth noting that these foods are typically the cheapest to buy. ..




AlexisANew -> RE: Can overeating be an addiction? (3/18/2014 2:14:00 AM)

When I look back at my grandparents generation, they were big sugar eaters and they fried their eggs in 2 inches of fat before frying their bread in it. They put half a stick of butter in the mash potatoes and they ate pastry on a very regular basis because pies were a cheap meal. Certainly where I lived, any woman who weighed 10 stone was considered fat. We had one big girl at our school and we cruelly called her 'rhino' but she had a thyroid problem.

Three generations later its perfectly normal, at least in the UK, to see an abundance of very big people. Surely all these people aren't suffering from eating disorders? if so, why didn't we see this in the same abundance in past generations?

Genetically altered wheat is a huge culprit when it comes to food addiction and genetically altered wheat is hidden in thousands of products on our supermarket shelves. We now eat more wheat than ever before because its used in so many products and because the wheat of today has been hybridized, (this evil little hybrid contains proteins that are not found in either parent plant), we are suffering its consequences..... Ironically this new grain is called 'frankengrain'

More and more people are suffering high cholesterol levels and more and more people are being diagnosed with wheat intolerance or IBS. Even if your skinny but a regular wheat eater, you health is at risk.


https://www.facebook.com/notes/mike-demeter/on-the-evils-of-wheat-dr-william-davis-on-why-it-is-so-addictive-and-how-shunnin/10150587775865619
Wheat now contains amylopectin A, which is more efficiently converted to blood sugar than just about any other carbohydrate, including table sugar. In fact, two slices of whole wheat bread increase blood sugar to a higher level than a candy bar does. And then, after about two hours, your blood sugar plunges and you get shaky, your brain feels foggy, you’re hungry. So let’s say you have an English muffin for breakfast. Two hours later you’re starving, so you have a handful of crackers, and then some potato chips, and your blood sugar rises again. That cycle of highs and lows just keeps going throughout the day, so you’re constantly feeling hungry and constantly eating. Dieticians have responded to this by advising that we graze throughout the day, which is just nonsense. If you eliminate wheat from your diet, you’re no longer hungry between meals because you’ve stopped that cycle. You’ve cut out the appetite stimulant, and consequently you lose weight very quickly.


All I can say is, thank god I'm Celiac. Since I was diagnosed 5 years ago, my weight remains at 115lbs no matter how much I eat.




MissMorrigan -> RE: Can overeating be an addiction? (3/18/2014 2:44:59 AM)

I wouldn't even suggest that every person that is overweight has an eating disorder, Alexis. But I do believe that our modernised foods and the way they are produced/combined play a huge factor in that 'growth'.

I watched a programmed recently which showed that food groupings on their own such as fat and sugar pose no significant health issue, but when combined which is common for much of our 'instant' foods these days then they can be lethal. Wheat, as you pointed out, has become a staple, and has proven to be a culprit in many medical issues a lot of people are afflicted with.

I'm currently on a very drastic diet, I have a condition which means the ghrelin hormone is way off the charts and never stops from being over-produced. So no carbs, starches or sugars for me for some considerable time. While the side effects are horrendous presently - constant nausea and frequent bouts of sickness, sweats, constant headache, stomach cramps, concentration issues, flu-like body pains (it's called keto-flu), I will never again go back to eating the 'danger' food groups. What and unnatural sugar/fat are strict 'No's'.

My stepfather is 6'5 originally - he's in his 80s so has shrunk a little, he's beanpole thin and always has been yet his sugar/fat consumption is abnormally high and he will have eating frenzies where he'll spend days glutting on anything with a high sugar content and as with your grandparents' generation, he also has a diet high in fat, ie he'll fry huge rashers of bacon in a little oil, they yield more fat and once cooked and removed he'll put hunks of bread in there to soak up all the fat then eat it with several eggs. He's been that way his entire life - I've known him for 44 years and he's never been any different in terms of eating pattern. Remove his high sugar/fat foods and he's a menace. He's never suffered with a medical condition associated with the absorption of such abnormally high amounts of unnatural sugars and fats. So this shows me we can't stereotype people.

In our grandparents' generation they were far more active than people are now, Alexis, and lifestyle also plays a factor.




needlesandpins -> RE: Can overeating be an addiction? (3/18/2014 3:22:55 AM)

the very simple answer is yes. the why is very complicated because there are tons of reasons.

Processed food is a huge problem, as is the amount of wheat as already stated. so called diet foods with artificial sweeteners are also a problem because of what the body expects, and how it then reacts. on all the nutrition courses I have been on for my job I have been told that a diabetic is better off having a little something that is naturally sweet to satisfy a craving, rather than eat stuff with artificial sweeteners. from my own experience both refined wheat carbs, and AS do horrendous things to my body, and make me crave terribly.

I am actually allergic to all cereal crops, so touching it affects my skin, and eating it affects my digestion. I can eat it, but if I did regularly then I'd real really crap.

I know that if I roast a joint of pork, and have only that, I need very little of it to feel full. I will then stop eating and feel satisfied without feeling full to bursting. if I were to eat a pasta dish I would not feel full at any point until my stomach couldn't hold any more. I can eat a normal portion, but my body won't even register that I've eaten it. I certainly won't feel satisfied even if I have enjoyed the meal. That means that my body is still going to be telling me that I am hungry. certainly within a couple of hours I am going to have raging hunger. I suffer from hanger, angry hunger lol I really do get to a point where I am so hungry that I am angry about everything. I get very stressy, tetchy, get the shakes, and I can't concentrate. if I can't eat properly then I have chocolate, which probably isn't the best thing, but it stops what is going on in its tracks very quickly. my ex was the first to spot this in me, and now all my people around me know this.

our body is supposed to tell us that we are hungry from various triggers, and the time of day/night is a big part of that. if we are used to eating at 1pm every day then our body will tell us we are hungry before that time. also when our stomachs are empty, or if you eat before it's empty, it will tell you you are hungry at 3/4s full if you have the habit of eating every time because you are constantly picking.

it's so hard for smokers to quit for a multitude of different reason, but there are tons related to eating too. then there is always that added extra that you can't not ever eat again the way you can not even do all the other addictions.

needles




smileforme50 -> RE: Can overeating be an addiction? (3/18/2014 3:29:49 AM)

I know I answered this in the other thread, but....

I do think it can be an addiction in some people. Addictions are just physical....they are emotional as well. This is why gambling is considered and addiction. I mean....if a compulsive gambler suddenly stops gambling, he doesn't go into DTs or a physical withdrawal the way a drug addict does. But by the same token, drugs and alcohol are also an emotional crutch....just like gambling and overeating.

It's also a "habit" ....that can eventually become an addiction....just like alcohol. If a person has a bad day, they come home, they have a few shots of Scotch and it makes them feel better. Then they are more likely to go to that bottle of Scotch over and over, because it made them feel good in the past. The same thing can happen with food....or at least certain foods.

I do also think there is something to be said for individual body chemistry. When I was 24 I went on a diet that was low fat and NO refined sugar or bread, and I worked my ass off in a gym. It took me 6 months to go from 205 pounds to 170. My 70 year-old mother....on the other hand.....was 130 around Christmastime. She was told she needed to go low fat because she should have gallbladder surgery, but she can't....so she needs to go low fat to limit the chance of an attack. She has watched her fat intake, but is very inactive because of her breathing problems. By simply cutting down on her fats but not increasing her exercise (and she still indulges in plenty of sugar).....she lost 17 pounds since the first of the year and looks like she barely has the strength to stand. Go figure.




AlexisANew -> RE: Can overeating be an addiction? (3/18/2014 3:41:52 AM)

I agree, lifestyle is a large factor in all of this. Children used play outdoors more, people walked or cycled to work and more people did manual labour.

I live in the mountains. Wherever I go, I'm either walking uphill or downhill. People who live here tend to be very active. They ski, snowboard, trek, climb, cycle, run and walk their dogs. As soon as the sun comes out people want to be outside and the sun shines here for 300 days a year. The average woman here weighs less than 100lbs. The average man 150lbs When I go in the clothes shops here I'm a size extra, extra large. If I go up to a whopping 120lbs I will have to drive to the city and shop in an oversized shop.

A lot of this has to do with genetics but it also has to do with general movability and the way we are brought up. French children, at least around here, are not permitted fizzy drinks unless its a special occasion. They are taught to eat slowly (it drives me mad how slowly they eat) and an adult portion size is half of what you would see on an English dinner plate. Funny actually because I'm a cook and work in a French kitchen. When English or American tourists dine at our restaurant they often order extra portions as well as dessert because a French portion is far too small!

Another thing here is food availability. We do have supermarkets but they are antiquated compared to America and the UK. If your lucky you may find half a dozen ready meals but they are tiny portions and very expensive. Food is also very expensive unless you buy raw ingredients, which means people cook from scratch at home a lot more. We have one take out facility but its a four mile drive and hardly ever open. We have one McDonald within 60 miles which is reliably quiet but we have farmers market three times a week where you have to push your way to the front.

So here I'm regularly told by shop assistants that 'you are too big Madam, we have nothing for you here' and when I go to the UK I'm told, 'your too thin. Are you eating properly?'.




theshytype -> RE: Can overeating be an addiction? (3/18/2014 5:14:16 AM)

I believe yes and no. Certain foods or drinks may be addictive because of certain ingredients or chemicals. Others, it's not the food that one may be addicted to, instead the comfort of feeling joy while eating. The latter, in my opinion, is easier to overcome but food was still part of that addiction.

I used to be a mood eater, at a time when my body could handle it. Upset? Eat. Bored? Eat.
I used to also be addicted to coke (Coca-Cola Classic). I drank it morning, noon and night.
Because I reached an age where these things greatly affected my weight, I had to change my habits.

Dropping the soda was extremely difficult for me and I equate it to quiting smoking. I drank it morning, noon and night. Even when it tasted awful to me. I went through withdrawals. And it actually wasn't until, by accident, a medication I was on made the taste of soda so horrid that I was able to quit. I tried cheating and went through withdrawals. I'd consider that an addiction.

Next, I needed to cut calories, aka diet. Just dieting doesn't work, it really was a lifestyle change I needed. I had to change my thinking process. I literally repeated "Food does not make me happy" over and over when reaching for something during times of stress. Food had been my coping mechanism for years, it worked for some time. It had become habit, an addiction. Although it stopped working, it was work to get way from that habit I was so used to. I lost some weight but not where I wanted to be.

I then cut processed foods altogether. Again, it was a lifestyle change. I had to change my way of thinking. I enjoyed the taste of breads, particularly. These foods were so convienant. I was addicted to the ease of use and availability.

All three of these things had different reason behind them but they were all habits and became addictions that I had to break. While the food itself may not have been addictive, they were part of my addictions.

I'm only one person and I understand what may have been true to me may not be true to others.
I also know that not every person is overweight for the same reason. There are several reasons a person may be overweight but may only have one of those.

I will say, I believe the majority of the overweight population, in the US at least, have the same reason behind their weight gain as I did.






windchymes -> RE: Can overeating be an addiction? (3/18/2014 5:17:58 AM)

I think the word "addiction" gets overused. I think you have to also consider compulsion, lack of self-control, lack of giving a damn and eating what you want regardless of the consequences, sedentary life-style and lack of exercise. Not every overweight person eats huge amounts of food or has a medical or psychiatric disorder.

I'm not saying food addiction doesn't exist, only that that assumption gets overused because it tends to take the responsibility for one's own actions away, excuses it, drums up sympathy.




MissMorrigan -> RE: Can overeating be an addiction? (3/18/2014 5:45:10 AM)

You make an excellent point, Windchymes, and I think it is too easy and convenient to live in denial rather than take responsibility. Largely, we are so focused on the self and society over-dispenses support.

@Alexis, I love looking at repro furniture, compare chair, bed and sofa sizes of then to ones now and the difference is immense. Clothing sizes are another issue as you pointed out. The standard size now for a woman is a 14 - 16 - ten years ago that would have classified someone in the clinically obese range and more and more stores are marketing their ranges to make the larger of us feel more 'acceptable'.

So what is addiction? Addiction is the inability to safely regulate, ie lack control, in doing something that has the potential to be harmful, when something becomes habitual to the point a lack of control comes into play then they have diminished capacity as it warps perception. .. That's my understanding of addiction, whether that be alcohol, sex, gambling, drugs and food.

Having said that, our lifestyles and consumer conveniences simply means it is easier to develop these addictions.

I am well on the road to my recovery. I have a half eaten packet of biscuits here, along with an unopened packet of chocolate peanuts. People tell me I should throw them out. I refuse to. I have no desire to eat them and I know I never will. They are a reminder of how far I have come and what I don't want to lose again by taking the lazy option and reverting.




LadyConstanze -> RE: Can overeating be an addiction? (3/18/2014 5:59:51 AM)

quote:

Compulsive overeaters are eating not out of hunger but as a coping mechanism. It isn't lack of self control but a case of slow destruction by socially acceptable drug. (Overeating and some trigger foods, like chocolate, make changes in brain chemistry usually associated with addictive drugs only not as strongly.)


There's also sugar addiction, in some people eating sugar will release endorphines and they react the same way as people on drugs, people get sugar highs and following that a sugar low, which makes them crave more sugar, but sugar isn't just the white stuff, but also complex carbs, your body reacts to them in a similar way and it's pretty difficult to break that circle.

I don't think that we move less (in general) than the generation of our grandparents, 50 years ago not everybody was working on a farm or doing physical labour, they certainly didn't do quite as much sports as we do now, there weren't as many public swimming pools available or gyms, what has changed dramatically is the food and what we eat. For a while antibiotics were given for virtually anything, as a kid when I had a cold everybody asked if I've been given antibiotics, luckily my parents weren't too fond or this, a real blessing, because not only does your body rely on getting help and slowly losing it's own defense mechanism, it also messes with all the bacteria in your body, even the good stuff you need. It can seriously change the way you digest food.
Most animals in commercial food production are given doses of antibiotics, because farmers found out that adding antibiotics to animal feed increases the weight gain in animals, that part of that stuff is stored in their muscle and fat tissue and we eat it, doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that it might mess with our health as well.

Our food has changed a lot, so about 60% of the population has food allergies and sensitivities, which slow down your metabolism and stop you from losing weight, I can't eat most dairy products (goat and sheep milk is fine, cow milk a no go), that and most meat or meat products, I'll end up bloated, mixing certain foods, same thing, gall bladder will go nuts, within a few hours I'm cramping and look like I'm about to give birth, for weeks later my digestion is messed up and I will gain weight, no matter what I do. I love Asian food but avoid Thai food unless I make it myself, too complicated questioning the waiter if there might be just a bit of coconut milk in the food (and often hearing "not in this dish" and then finding out the painful way that there is). The reason why we have so many allergies might be due to pollution, but also most food, even if we cook from scratch, we have no idea what is in it. For our grandparents, it came from farms, now unless you spend a lot of money on organic food, you really can't tell and even then it's a bit of a gamble.

Another thing is people are having deficiencies, thyroid problems are a world wide problem, most countries have it as part of their yearly health screening, oddly enough not in the UK...
Vitamin D deficiency is also a massive thing for most of the population, even in California, due to sun screens and all of that, our bodies have lost a lot of their ability to absorb it, yet Vit D influences almost everything, starting from digestion to how your cardiovascular system works, diabetes, gum and dental health...

Additionally if you look at people with small children, child cries and they give them sweets, it's training them to seek comfort in food and equal sweets with happiness and attention, how about programming somebody to have an eating disorder?

There are a ton of people who really fight hard to deal with their weight, every bit of respect, but the ones who just sit on their sofas and stuff their faces with all sorts of junk and can't be bothered to move, but then expect special rights, they tend to wind me up. If they aren't willing to take responsibility for their own health, it doesn't seem to be right that the whole world has to bend over backwards to accommodate them, a bunch of my friends have weight issues due to steroids (mainly cortisone) but none of them has this entitlement complex that everything should be bigger just for them... I often pop in at the local McDonalds on the morning or evening dog walk, because I like their coffee, somebody who's having a supersized meal at 7 am with a side order of double cheeseburger and the funny coffee with tons of syrup, I don't think that their obesity comes from a medical disorder. I also don't buy that they don't have the money to eat healthy, because for what that costs, I can buy A LOT of veggies.

As for the difference food makes, I changed the feed for my dogs about 6 months ago, I figured the kibble, even if high quality, is so overly processed, it's the same as eating crap processed food myself. When I changed their food to mostly raw stuff (I have to cook the offal for the girl as she won't touch it raw), the boy was a nightmare with monthly vet bills (despite having him insured up to his eyeballs there is a co-pay) due to allergies, since we changed the food, the only trip to the vet we had to take were for the yearly shots and a broken claw.




ShaharThorne -> RE: Can overeating be an addiction? (3/18/2014 6:02:10 AM)

It depends...I have a sweet tooth but I can go a few days without having sweets. I brought some sweets yesterday because Mom is leaving here for my uncle's place and I like to nibble on a chocolate bunny when I get the munchies. Mom has a sweet tooth also.

I also like Arizona's diet green tea with Splenda. When I ran out one week, I was not pleasant. Apparently Splenda and aspartame have addictive components to it (which is why I like Diet MD as well).

Now, I like red meat and butterfly pork chops. Its the sides I can do without...potatoes and pasta. Salads never last in the household.




FrostedFlake -> RE: Can overeating be an addiction? (3/18/2014 6:08:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan

That isn't necessarily correct. It is well documented that eating certain food groups such as fats and sugar combined induce a chemical alteration in the brain which is similar to that experienced by alcoholics. There is also considerable research on rodents in relation to food types and once fats/sugars were introduced to their diet they would ignore the healthier options and eat only the fats and sugars which would make them obese/ill. That isn't emotionally driven behaviour, it's a dependence on keeping dopamine levels high.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FrostedFlake
Addiction is probably too glib a way to put it. Too glib because it blames the food. When obviously, the problem isn't the food. It isn't jumping onto the fork. It is the excess eating that causes the excess eating. It would be more accurate to view it as an emotional problem, rather than a dependance problem.


@MercTech, I agree entirely that while not all obesity can be attributed to addictive behaviour, certainly some can be. There are several classifications of over-eater and some people do others a disservice by attributing a blanket perception to everyone that is obese. Stats for bariatric surgery are alarmingly high, yet the criteria for qualifying for this surgery is also high and those who are emotional over-eaters do not qualify for this surgery here in the UK. Eating disorders are characterised by a significant change in eating habits and more attention needs to be placed on why these disturbances occur. The food industry also needs to take responsibility - the syrups and fats used in much of our processed foods are designed to make the food more palatable, keeping blood sugars high. It's worth noting that these foods are typically the cheapest to buy. ..


I take issue with pretty much all of the points you've made.

1/ Rats are not comparable to people. People think. At least they are supposed to. Rats do what their ancestors, ancestors, ancestors did. And with out thinking too hard about it. What exactly is that? Eat it before the other rat does. Even if the other rat isn't there. AND hygrade it. That means fat and sugar first, anything else later, maybe. So you have drawn a conclusion and applied it to your health from what isn't actually data.

2/ CHANGE does not define disorder. I change my diet every time I change my activities. If I didn't, THAT would be a disorder.

3/ The Food Industry is definitely not responsible for what you eat. You are.

I'd go on to point out that sugar isn't actually a food, it's a drug and that keeping dopamine levels high with sugar is addictive behavior. But we are talking about food and you were talking about rats.




LadyConstanze -> RE: Can overeating be an addiction? (3/18/2014 6:10:24 AM)

Shahar, hubby had a sweet tooth (as in he couldn't just have a piece of chocolate, he had the whole bar), I was hooked on diet Pepsi, we went on a detox, built up the colon flora again, the detox broke some habits and changed our taste buds. Now he tends to eat berries or a banana when he's got a craving for sweets, still sweet but at least the natural fruit sugar doesn't mess that much with your system.
Often a craving for chocs is actually that your body is lacking magnesium.




angelikaJ -> RE: Can overeating be an addiction? (3/18/2014 6:33:14 AM)

There are PET scan imagery studies on people that show a few things:
Brain imagining (PET scans) shows that high-sugar and high-fat foods work just like heroin, opium, or morphine in the brain.
Brain imaging (PET scans) shows that obese people and drug addicts have lower numbers of dopamine receptors, making them more likely to crave things that boost dopamine.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mark-hyman/food-addiction-could-it-e_b_764863.html

Also: http://blogs.wgbh.org/innovation-hub/2014/1/24/our-carb-addiction/




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