RE: Can overeating be an addiction?

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LadyConstanze -> RE: Can overeating be an addiction? (3/18/2014 6:49:26 AM)
quote: 3/ The Food Industry is definitely not responsible for what you eat. You are. I'd go on to point out that sugar isn't actually a food, it's a drug and that keeping dopamine levels high with sugar is addictive behavior. But we are talking about food and you were talking about rats. I agree that people are responsible for what they eat, however, times have changed and I don't do processed foods, what is served in our house is usually made from scratch. However a lot of the ingredients in food do trigger allergies and people often aren't aware of it, so holding the food industry blameless doesn't quite work. They don't give a toss about our health, they care about their profits, so the more addictive a food is, the higher their profits. It's the same with the tobacco industry, they aren't responsible for people smoking (apart from for a while making it look cool) but they sure are responsible for all the additives they put into their cigarettes to keep people hooked on them and make it difficult to stop. Sugar might not be a food, but it's in almost every food you buy, it's actually super difficult to avoid sugar, if it triggers some addiction in people, a piece of bread can be enough, like a morphine shot for back pain can trigger the addiction in a junkie. Add to it that the food industry isn't awfully keen to disclose what is in their products, your average product has a list of things in them where 90% of the population has no clue what it means.

MissMorrigan -> RE: Can overeating be an addiction? (3/18/2014 6:51:54 AM)
1. Rats aren't comparable to humans? Their genomes are very similar which is why they are utilised, along with ease of availability. How do you think medical advances have been made if it hadn't been through research and experimentation on animals? 2. Change doesn't define a disorder, but certain conditions can exacerbate a disorder and change can certainly alleviate it. Significant change in one's diet can induce a condition/disorder. What have I said that is incorrect you take issue with? 3. Indeed, I agree to a point but that doesn't take into consideration the parents who are pumping their children full of that shit. Our societies haven't before seen such a huge rise in obese children as there is today. However, with greater education and information regarding processed/convenience foods, and consumption in general, people can make more informed choices. 4. Sugar is a drug, and how do we know this? With the assistance of scientific research. .. research conducted using mammals.

AlexisANew -> RE: Can overeating be an addiction? (3/18/2014 6:54:16 AM)
I can't be short of magnesium then, I don't like chocolate! I don't crave wheat any more either but I found it one of the most difficult foods to give up. Not because there is so much of it everywhere but my body craved it like it craves caffeine. When I come to the UK I can get a prescription for wheat free products but there are plenty of people who have to self diagnose their condition and make a concious decision to come off wheat/glutens. Like diabetic food, its very expensive to buy substitutes and what's on offer is abysmal. In France all major bakers sell gluten free bread and their huge gluten free sections at the food halls aren't expensive like the UK, in fact I would say its cheaper here to buy substitutes than the real thing. If more and more people are getting IBS, gluten intolerance ailments, type 2 diabetes, why isn't the market catering for it? One thing I never put in my shopping basket is 'low fat' products. We should all know by now, the truth behind the huge marketing ploy in the promotion of low fat commercial foods and that eating this shite is not a magic bullet to losing weight.

MissMorrigan -> RE: Can overeating be an addiction? (3/18/2014 6:56:23 AM)
It's alarming just how much of this stuff is in our food chain. Someone dropped off a jar of artichoke hearts in olive oil for me. Spurred by this thread I look on the label of ingredients and it also contains salt and sugar, the latter two are commonly used as a preservative. quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze Sugar might not be a food, but it's in almost every food you buy, it's actually super difficult to avoid sugar, if it triggers some addiction in people, a piece of bread can be enough, like a morphine shot for back pain can trigger the addiction in a junkie.

FrostedFlake -> RE: Can overeating be an addiction? (3/18/2014 7:03:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: angelikaJ There are PET scan imagery studies on people that show a few things: Brain imagining (PET scans) shows that high-sugar and high-fat foods work just like heroin, opium, or morphine in the brain. Brain imaging (PET scans) shows that obese people and drug addicts have lower numbers of dopamine receptors, making them more likely to crave things that boost dopamine. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mark-hyman/food-addiction-could-it-e_b_764863.html Also: http://blogs.wgbh.org/innovation-hub/2014/1/24/our-carb-addiction/ Neurotransmitter receptors upregulate (increase in number) and downregulate (become fewer) in response to the difference between the levels of neurotransmitters present compared to the levels that ought to be. This means, when you hammer your brain with something, you become less susceptible to it, because some of the receptors are taken out of service. It also means that when you stop abusing yourself, things move back the other way. Drug addiction and several mental disorders are very similar. Depression, for example is often treated by increasing the level of serotonin. This causes downregulation. That causes the drug to be less effective. That leads to increased dose. Vicious circle. And, at the risk of repetition, white sugar is a drug, not a Food. It is flammable, but has no other foodlike characteristics. It is no more a food than alcohol, nicotine or caffeine is.

LadyConstanze -> RE: Can overeating be an addiction? (3/18/2014 7:11:09 AM)
OMG, don't get me started on the low fat stuff, I had a rant in the US at my friend who had the transplant, he thought buying "low fat" was the key, only a lot of the "low fat" products have a ton of other stuff in them that is even more dangerous to your health... I started cooking for him from scratch, when he got cookies, I made the cookies, with butter and proper cane sugar instead of white sugar, if he got a chili con carne, it was made with fresh tomatoes, lean steak mince, beans I soaked overnight. Since I worked a lot, I didn't have all that much time to go shopping and cooking, but actually with a bit of being organized and a freezer, it wasn't that much more work. He's still ringing every day telling me that if I don't stay with him if I'm back in LA, he's going to have a crying fit, claims he never ate that well without gaining weight. He just had properly balanced meals and couldn't believe that his shopping bill actually dropped despite 2 of us eating there. He never learned that when making a stew, you actually use the tougher (and cheaper) cuts of meat and cooking it for a long time will make them tender and that they have a lot more flavour. I started serving him his salad before dinner, instead of the fat free rubbish, a drop of real cream in the dressing, you need less and you have more flavour. Using virgin olive oil instead of the canola crap, he was big on puddings, so instead of a slice of cake, an overripe banana mashed up and fried in a dollop of butter and you again only add a spoon of cream, instead of sugar a little bit of honey, satisfied all the sweet and starchy cravings he had from the steroids and teaching him to eat slowly and savouring each bite instead of wolving it down. The gluten free products in the UK are horribly expensive and usually taste awful. I'd rather stick with rice crackers!

FrostedFlake -> RE: Can overeating be an addiction? (3/18/2014 7:25:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan 1. Rats aren't comparable to humans? Their genomes are very similar which is why they are utilised, along with ease of availability. How do you think medical advances have been made if it hadn't been through research and experimentation on animals? 2. Change doesn't define a disorder, but certain conditions can exacerbate a disorder and change can certainly alleviate it. Significant change in one's diet can induce a condition/disorder. What have I said that is incorrect you take issue with? 3. Indeed, I agree to a point but that doesn't take into consideration the parents who are pumping their children full of that shit. Our societies haven't before seen such a huge rise in obese children as there is today. However, with greater education and information regarding processed/convenience foods, and consumption in general, people can make more informed choices. 4. Sugar is a drug, and how do we know this? With the assistance of scientific research. .. research conducted using mammals. 1/ If you think a rat is a good role model, I'm not going to try to tell you different. Go ahead and eat like one. 2/ I was once a logger. And I ate like one. That was a change and a big one. I maintained my weight. Later, I was injured, so quit logging. The same day, I radically changed my diet. I maintained my weight. Had I not made the first change, the job would have ruined me in a couple weeks. Had I not made the second change I would have gained a hundred pounds in a few months. This is what you suggest I should have done. Think it over one more time. Controlling a diet means just that. 3/ You are again putting up a straw man to take the blame, instead of taking control.. That is not a problem solving technique. It a problem avoidance technique. 4/ Sugar is a drug and we know this by giving a donut to a child. I'm disappointed in you, Miss Morrigan. You have not held up your end of this conversation. Fortunately it's over.

LadyConstanze -> RE: Can overeating be an addiction? (3/18/2014 7:33:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan It's alarming just how much of this stuff is in our food chain. Someone dropped off a jar of artichoke hearts in olive oil for me. Spurred by this thread I look on the label of ingredients and it also contains salt and sugar, the latter two are commonly used as a preservative. quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze Sugar might not be a food, but it's in almost every food you buy, it's actually super difficult to avoid sugar, if it triggers some addiction in people, a piece of bread can be enough, like a morphine shot for back pain can trigger the addiction in a junkie. I never had a sweet tooth, in fact most sweet foods taste pretty awful to me, always has, might be genetic, my mom is the same, if somebody offers me chocolate or ice cream, I pass, give me a pickled gherkin instead and I'm happy. What I notice though is that if I eat stuff that does contain sugar (and I'm going through pains to avoid it), I'm having trouble concentrating, a feeling of dizzyness. I love fruit, and the fruit sugar doesn't seem to have the same effect. I love Mediterranean food, little nibbles, eating slowly, but it's a PITA to find passata or pasta that isn't full of sugar, I hardly buy anything in tins, simply due to sugar being used as a preservative... I mean if you look at jam, the reason why they use so much sugar is not just taste but also as a preservative, ketchup is mainly sugar. I wouldn't say my body is a temple, but it's the only one I got and I much rather eat halfway sensible and avoid additives and refined products, than deal with all the problems they bring. Whenever I'm in the dog park, I usually get comments about how I got the dogs to behave from people who whimper that their dog won't come back or is hyper, in most cases when you ask what they feed them, it turns out to be Bakers or some other crap food, we know that kids react to food colouring and additives, so do dogs, you give kids a ton of sugary, fizzy drinks with a list of additives as long as an arm and they will behave like they have ADHD, you're giving your dog brightly coloured food (and yeah, neon green, red and orange aren't natural things) and you wonder why the poor thing is hyper and manic? It would be interesting to have a look if food allergies and allergies in general are now more prevalent due to a changed diet, or if they always existed but the people who had them simply died a lot earlier because they were undiagnosed, I suspect there was a bit of that going on, but my money would certainly be on the changed diet...

MissMorrigan -> RE: Can overeating be an addiction? (3/18/2014 8:00:22 AM)
That's an interesting point. I would imagine illness due to food intolerance would be high, along with mortality rates, certainly higher than any stats we currently have. Social scientists have a lot of work cut out for them ;-) I've always detested junk/processed food and never ate them throughout my life as I was raised to eat the rabbits we caught, and the vegetables we grew on the allotments we owned. I have had a sweet tooth and noticed all of the symptoms you describe, although with me it makes me want more and more. Having recently gone through a complete detox, and the symptoms were horrible, it is enough for me to never want to eat that crap again. I have a far healthier respect for my body these days. From my trips to Italy and eating the quality of local produce, I have to say that I felt so much healthier and active than back home and trying to mirror the same diet. Manufacturers know exactly the effects induced when they pump certain additives in their foods to make them more palatable and that's what they're banking on, quite literally. I don't ever see sugar and salt levels regulated to the degree they need to be and that is a huge shame because manufacturers will continue targeting people who live such busy lives/low income families that they rely on convenience foods to save time/money. quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze It would be interesting to have a look if food allergies and allergies in general are now more prevalent due to a changed diet, or if they always existed but the people who had them simply died a lot earlier because they were undiagnosed, I suspect there was a bit of that going on, but my money would certainly be on the changed diet...

MercTech -> RE: Can overeating be an addiction? (3/18/2014 8:10:09 AM)
Have you ever considered that denying the possibility of food addiction is also denying a possibility of treatment? __________________________________________________________________ There are other factors that can cause obesity. Especially obesity that starts with an illness and keeps going. An imbalance in intestinal flora, specifically candida overgrowth, can leave you feeling ravenous even when the belly is full. You start to crave sweets and starches due to enzymes released by the candida. A simple course of antibiotics can set this off. I have a feeling it is actually common in the U.S. otherwise products like Activa would not be so popular. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candida_%28fungus%29 http://www.mindbodygreen.com/0-8376/10-signs-you-have-candida-overgrowth-what-to-do-about-it.html If you suspect you may be having problems with candida, there are medical tests to confirm. I went a round with candida overgrowth in 2010. I hadn't heard of candida before my diagnosis by stomach biopsy (biopsy was to diagnose another problem but it seems the candida was causing a lot of problems). Oral anti-fungal antibiotics are not fun. One side effect made me a temporary vampire (skin would not tolerate direct sun without burning - like watching meat in a toaster). Anyway, I digress. The bottom line was the use of pro-biotic supplements to balance intestinal flora and keep some on hand to take if I need antibiotics so that it doesn't get to be a problem again. One thing that happened after my treatment for candida was that the extreme cravings for sweets, pastry, bread, etc. dropped off to a normal hunger. I ended up dropping 20 lb in three months with no attempt at diet or weight loss. Obesity has many contributing factors; genetic, cultural, psychological, and physiological. Telling someone to "just stop eating so much" is about as effective as telling a woman "stop menstruating as it is inconvenient and your PMS annoys me".

dcnovice -> RE: Can overeating be an addiction? (3/18/2014 8:15:41 AM)
quote: the problem isn't the food. It isn't jumping onto the fork. True. Nor does alcohol dive into the glass, heroin into the syringe, or pot onto the rolling paper.

AlexisANew -> RE: Can overeating be an addiction? (3/18/2014 8:18:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan From my trips to Italy and eating the quality of local produce, I have to say that I felt so much healthier and active than back home and trying to mirror the same diet. I agree that Italians eat a lot healthier than their American or British cousins when it comes to the consumption of fat but I live on the border of Italy and as a cook, I often find myself working in Italian kitchens. They always put a good 3 tablespoons of salt in their pasta water and they always use some of that water in their sauces so it twins well with the pasta. Italians eat far too much salt. They have a lot of government health warnings on Italian tv advising them to lower their salt intake.

angelikaJ -> RE: Can overeating be an addiction? (3/18/2014 8:22:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan 1. Rats aren't comparable to humans? Their genomes are very similar which is why they are utilised, along with ease of availability. How do you think medical advances have been made if it hadn't been through research and experimentation on animals? 2. Change doesn't define a disorder, but certain conditions can exacerbate a disorder and change can certainly alleviate it. Significant change in one's diet can induce a condition/disorder. What have I said that is incorrect you take issue with? 3. Indeed, I agree to a point but that doesn't take into consideration the parents who are pumping their children full of that shit. Our societies haven't before seen such a huge rise in obese children as there is today. However, with greater education and information regarding processed/convenience foods, and consumption in general, people can make more informed choices. 4. Sugar is a drug, and how do we know this? With the assistance of scientific research. .. research conducted using mammals. Not just mammals, but humans.

dcnovice -> RE: Can overeating be an addiction? (3/18/2014 8:26:37 AM)
FR Hearing folks extol their virtuous diets always brings to mind a favorite quote from my beloved dowager countess. [image]http://stoopidhousewives.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/tumblr_mv19h2q4l41shk6nro1_400.gif[/image]

OsideGirl -> RE: Can overeating be an addiction? (3/18/2014 8:27:32 AM)
It's estimated that at least 10% of the female population has PCOS and one of the symptoms is insulin resistance. (Which is also why women with PCOS tend to be overweight) I've been insulin resistant since I was a teen ager, when suddenly I gained 50lbs, when nothing else in my life changed. So, for me, it's not really about how much I eat, it's about what I eat. The problem is that insulin resistance creates a vicious circle. The body is tired, craving energy foods. So, I eat. My body releases insulin, but my cells don't recognize it, so they don't open the door. My body checks my glucose level, sees that it's still high and sends out more insulin, which the cells ignore. Finally, the body assumes that I've over eaten and moves what I've eaten into body fat. In the meantime, the cells are starving and don't have any energy. So, they send out the signal that they need energy foods and the cycle starts all over again. So, yes, for someone in my position, carbs can become an addiction and withdrawal from simple carbs sucks.

MissMorrigan -> RE: Can overeating be an addiction? (3/18/2014 8:36:18 AM)
Your comprehension skills are in need of an overhaul. Nowhere in my post did I point out a personal preference. I pointed out a medical fact which is that rodents are frequently used in research as their genome is similar to our own. I would prefer humans to be tested on but there's an issue with that, it's called 'human rights'. You don't need to try and tell me anything, if your arrogance is such that you believe your knowledge vastly superior to those in the medical sector then I suggest you take up the issue with the renowned scientists whose breakthroughs have been partly due to the study of effects on mammals during the course of their research. What I have stated is that there many factors involved in a person developing an addiction. People aren't robots. As for being disappointed in me.. . Take your word for something when it's myopic or refer to scientific fact? Enjoy your disappointment and I'll continue to adopt a more holistic approach to people and life.

LadyConstanze -> RE: Can overeating be an addiction? (3/18/2014 8:38:16 AM)
quote: Have you ever considered that denying the possibility of food addiction is also denying a possibility of treatment? I don't think I have ever denied the possibility of food addiction, on the other hand, I don't really buy into that every person who's obese due to overeating has a food addiction. As for treatment, you can't treat a person who doesn't want to be treated. I've been a smoker for about 20 years, I was addicted, funny how nobody offered any sympathy, it takes a bit of effort to stop smoking. So I am terribly sorry if somebody who doesn't have a medical reason to be obese and just likes stuffing their face with junk food doesn't get the "poor you" treatment. It's up to them to start breaking the addiction. It was my responsibility to stop smoking, my body, my choice what I put into it. So why on earth should we all bend over backwards for the overeaters? There is help available, there is information out there. quote: Obesity has many contributing factors; genetic, cultural, psychological, and physiological. Telling someone to "just stop eating so much" is about as effective as telling a woman "stop menstruating as it is inconvenient and your PMS annoys me". Oh wow, apparently menstruating is the same thing as voluntarily going to a shop, buying unhealthy food, opening your mouth and stuffing it in? Let's say your knowledge about the body and the functions is somewhat lacking. If somebody has problems with candida, changing their food also helps, it's not convenient but at the end of the day it's your own health and body. Again, somebody having medical problems and reacting is not the same as obesity by overeating. They can get help. You know I didn't stop smoking by claiming I have a medical condition, I stopped smoking by stopping to light cigarettes. If overeating is an addiction, breaking the addiction helps, counting calories, self discipline, help is available everywhere, reading labels and avoiding fast food joints takes will power. Addiction isn't like menstruating, addiction is breaking the cycle of addiction, nobody claimed it's easy, but the first step is that somebody needs to want it. I'm fed up with people who overeat playing the victim card, that's an insult to people who have valid medical reasons. Somebody wants to eat him or herself to death, it's not my place to step in and stop them, just like it's not my place if I see a smoker or somebody drinking to go up and tell them that what they are doing is not good for them and try to take their cigarette or booze away. Somebody trying to do something about their weight should get a lot of help, all for it, but no they shouldn't get special rights (unless you are ready to have special seats for smokers, alcoholics, drug users), if it is an addiction, treat it like one, the first step has to be that the person needs to WANT to change, not mollycoddling them and enabling them with that mollycoddling. And I think it's damned important to make a difference between medical reasons and just being undisciplined. I'm always a bit stunned at the blatant hypocritical behaviour different addictions are treated, the person addicted to nicotine gets told to "stop smoking" yet the person who voluntarily goes to McD and stuffs his or her face with supersized menus, oh no, the same doesn't apply, that would be "cruel". And before you jump at me, I hope I made it VERY clear that there is a massive difference between a medical reason (hormones, bacteria, medication, endocrines etc.) to "I like eating, I'm a comfort eater and I don't have the willpower to change things but I expect everybody to go out of their way so I can continue and not suffer any discomfort due to seats that are to small for me!"

MissMorrigan -> RE: Can overeating be an addiction? (3/18/2014 8:39:30 AM)
True, Angelika, albeit minimal by comparison which is a shame. quote: ORIGINAL: angelikaJ Not just mammals, but humans.

MissMorrigan -> RE: Can overeating be an addiction? (3/18/2014 8:52:57 AM)
Oh that is so true, Alexis. Salt draws the flavours out and they throw it in copiously. Perhaps it's b/c they live in warmer climates and sweat more, losing sodium so feel they have to put more in their foods, maybe I'm an idiot that really doesn't know what I'm talking about (highly possible!). When I'm in Italy I drink copiously, in excess of 5 litres a day. And I think therein is the key. .. balance and it's clear that some of us have difficulty doing achieving it. quote: ORIGINAL: AlexisANew I agree that Italians eat a lot healthier than their American or British cousins when it comes to the consumption of fat but I live on the border of Italy and as a cook, I often find myself working in Italian kitchens. They always put a good 3 tablespoons of salt in their pasta water and they always use some of that water in their sauces so it twins well with the pasta. Italians eat far too much salt. They have a lot of government health warnings on Italian tv advising them to lower their salt intake.

PeonForHer -> RE: Can overeating be an addiction? (3/18/2014 9:03:36 AM)
quote: The Food Industry is definitely not responsible for what you eat. You are. I'm always suspicious of statements that load all the responsibility onto the individual because, of course, the flip side of that is that it absolves the corporations involved. These are corporations that have vast power, economic resources and finely-honed skills of persuasion that no individual can match. Every time I see the question asked, in any context, 'Hey, what about the responsibility of the individual?' I always think, 'Hey, what about the responsibility of the corporation?'.

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