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RE: Protection or persecution? - 3/19/2014 5:12:20 PM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

I would have to vote for ridiculous persecution. I think the power has gone to their heads and they can't think clearly anymore.

I think that they have guidelines giving them an excuse not to think at all.




Yes, god forbid they use their own common sense in each situation.

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RE: Protection or persecution? - 3/19/2014 5:29:25 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

From the youtube videos I could find of his I see nothing that would be a threat...I wonder if he knew he was not to bring a knife on school grounds? As a teen it seems a little much to have knives and a stun gun in the truck at school but schools must be careful now days... it is a shame.

If nothing more comes out I could see him kicked out of the school but I do believe a felony charge is a bit much... Maybe some community service...But we will have to see what comes out about the particular posts the school administrator thought gave him reason to search his car.

Butch

In the article I posted from Huffington he said he realized that he shouldn't have the knife
on school property, he left it with the rest of his EMT stuff and that he was willing to
accept the suspension but that the felony charge was ridiculous.

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: Protection or persecution? - 3/19/2014 5:34:29 PM   
BamaD


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FRWe charge [people] with everything that we feel they are guilty of, and in this case, he is guilty of a felony," Harold Specht, the chief assistant prosecutor at the Ashtabula County prosecutor's office, told HuffPost.

Specht said the charge is related only to the knife found inside Wiser's vehicle. The teen is not facing charges for possession of the stun gun or the Airsoft guns.

"I was in jail for almost 13 days," Wiser said. "The first bond hearing I went to was on December 15. The judge ordered me [to be] held on a half million-dollar bond, pending a psychological evaluation. I did that and passed. They found I was not suicidal, homicidal or a threat to anybody. My attorney brought it up in front of a different judge, who let me out on a $50,000 bond and an ankle monitor. I was released from jail on Christmas Eve."

Wiser acknowledges he should not have had any of the items on school property and said he is willing to accept punishment for that; however, he does not feel a felony charge is fitting, considering the circumstances.

"There are kids at my school all the time who get caught with knives and are suspended," he said. "My school is very rural, and people carry knives. I can accept the fact that there was a lapse in judgment, and I can accept a punishment, but I have already been expelled from both the tech school and my home school. The Army -- I was enrolled in the Future Soldiers program and was scheduled to ship out in August -- has discharged me, pending a not guilty verdict or dropped charges without prejudice."
A VIDEO FROM WISER'S YOUTUBE PAGE: (Story Continues Below)
Wiser said the conditions of his bond also prohibit him from having any contact with his grandfather, who is dying from cancer.

"The one judge I went in front of told me to remove any firearms from my parents' house and put them at my grandpa's house," Wiser said. "The next judge freaked out about me even knowing what a gun is and put a no contact order against me and my grandparents. My grandfather is dying right now, and I am not allowed within 500 feet of him."

Specht said his office believes the felony charge is justified and has no plans to reduce the charge.

"There are all these school occurrences where people are shot, people are killed by other students," Specht said. "We see it every day … so we don't take these things lightly. … We have to be sure that we don't have a potential for something like that to happen here."

Wiser said he takes offense to the comparison.

"I was enlisted in the Army and went to school to be [a] police officer and fireman," he explained. "Why are they trying to paint me as a potential school shooter? I never had any intentions of hurting a soul."

Wiser's attorney, William Bobulsky, did not return calls for comment from HuffPost.

There was a petition on change.org that demanded the charges be reduced to a misdemeanor. Within 48 hours, the petition garnered 1,349 signatures; however, Wiser said he had to ask that the petition be taken down.

"The court threatened to hold sanctions against me and my lawyer," he said. "I guess the prosecutor was upset because his inbox had been flooded with emails as a result of the petition."

Specht admitted he is aware of the controversy surrounding the case, but he believes he can prove the justification behind the charge when it goes to court.

"I know that there's a load of people out here that just think we're the devil because we're allegedly ruining this young kid's life, and that's not the case at all," he said. "If this goes to trial, it will certainly come out in the wash."

Wiser is scheduled to appear in court again on April 1 for a pretrial hearing. A jury trial is tentatively scheduled for June 11.

Attorney Colin Maher, owner and managing member of The Maher Law Firm in Columbus, Ohio, said the case could go either way once it is given to a jury.

"[Would] a jury consider a four-inch knife as a weapon? I think it would be difficult…but with a jury, you never know," Maher conceded.

For now, Wiser's future remains in the balance.

"Never in my life did I think this would happen," Wiser said. "I dedicated my life to public service, and now a four-inch pocketknife could ruin everything."



sorry I seem to have posted the last half of the Huffington story in the wrong thread

here it is, this explain why ks didn't know about it.



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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: Protection or persecution? - 3/19/2014 5:39:58 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

Ok guys, what do you think. Is this protection of students or ridiculous persecution?

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/03/18/high-school-senior-jailed-kicked-out-school-and-may-lose-army-dream-because/?intcmp=obnetwork




I don't know.

On the one hand, this is a crappy story from FOX News -- the report shows a definite difference of stories between the kid and the school. Direct contradictions, in fact. So, despite the reporter's clear soft spot for the kid, it's gonna take a court to sort through which is the truth.

On the other hand, if the kid's story is correct, he has a case for a lawsuit. I wouldn't want to be the school in that instance.

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RE: Protection or persecution? - 3/19/2014 6:31:02 PM   
deathtothepixies


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


We were all teenagers at one time how many times could you (the generalized you as in you'all not
joether in particular) have messed over because being a teenager in moments of stress something
didn't come out quite the way you meant it.



damn those crazy teenagers, doing their crazy shit.

He's lucky no one shot him.....

oops wrong thread.......

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RE: Protection or persecution? - 3/19/2014 6:50:42 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: deathtothepixies


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


We were all teenagers at one time how many times could you (the generalized you as in you'all not
joether in particular) have messed over because being a teenager in moments of stress something
didn't come out quite the way you meant it.



damn those crazy teenagers, doing their crazy shit.

He's lucky no one shot him.....

oops wrong thread.......

Yep they just destroyed his life, but that's ok he was going into the army this summer
and the last thing we need is another trained killer, right?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: Protection or persecution? - 3/19/2014 6:51:41 PM   
Musicmystery


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And you demonstrate it yet again.

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RE: Protection or persecution? - 3/19/2014 6:59:43 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

And you demonstrate it yet again.

Trying to make me the subject again I see.
Have you even heard of TOS?
Or does it just not apply to you?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Protection or persecution? - 3/19/2014 7:19:37 PM   
Musicmystery


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And yet again.

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RE: Protection or persecution? - 3/19/2014 8:39:37 PM   
MercTech


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I don't consider anything that kid did to be any crime at all. The crime is the insane actions of the school officials and the Ohio court system.

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RE: Protection or persecution? - 3/19/2014 8:42:11 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

I don't consider anything that kid did to be any crime at all. The crime is the insane actions of the school officials and the Ohio court system.

Simple case of mindless inertia.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Protection or persecution? - 3/19/2014 9:37:13 PM   
BamaD


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FR

What business did the school have acting on youtube posts that included no threats.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: Protection or persecution? - 3/20/2014 12:47:45 AM   
eulero83


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FR

the whole concept of "zero tollerance" is to be draconian, because the only difference from "judge with common sense" is you'll punish meaningless cases. Just a curiosity what if a kid has one of those?


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RE: Protection or persecution? - 3/20/2014 12:57:52 AM   
DaddySatyr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

FR

What business did the school have acting on youtube posts that included no threats.



This is what I (sort of) brought up before.

I'll bet you a dollar to a doughnut that he "stole a girl" from one of his classmates or some such shit and the classmate went all cry-baby on his ass and reported to the school that he knew where they could find "weapons".

The whole situation is a damned shame.





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RE: Protection or persecution? - 3/20/2014 1:34:31 AM   
crazyml


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FR

A couple of things strike me about this. First, he hasn't been convicted yet, so it's a question of how a grand jury will react. I'm guessing that a half decent lawyer, assuming that the facts are as they've been reported, would be able to get the grand jury to throw it out pretty quickly.

The car search seems completely legal to me; as MercTech pointed out there's implied consent. Depending on the wording of the right to search clause in the school's handbook, there doesn't need to be any probable cause.

The "zero tolerance" bullshit is one of those things that schools have to tout sometimes, but if as the young lad asserts, that other pupils have been found with knives on them and have only been suspended then surely there's a lawsuit in the offing?

It could also be that the DA feels obliged to pursue this course because of the zero tolerance malarky, and the fear that if they did nothing and the guy turned out to be a wacko it would look pretty fucked up for them,,

I guess we have to trust the common sense of the grand jury?



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RE: Protection or persecution? - 3/20/2014 1:51:20 AM   
DaddySatyr


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Let me school you, a bit.

The Grand Jury (generally) is something a potential defendant wants to avoid.

The rules of evidence are MUCH different. A prosecutor can present hearsay evidence, call witnesses whose checkered pasts are not usually cross-examined, all kinds of dirty shit.

While a defendant has the right to testify in front of a Grand Jury, it rarely happens. The only way a defense attorney can get into the Grand Jury room is if their client testifies. In fact, in federal cases (the ones with which I am more familiar than state cases) defense attorneys are NOT ALLOWED in the Grand Jury, even if their client is subpoenaed to testify.

The old saw about "A prosecutor can get a ham sandwich indicted" is pretty accurate. It's not a place where defense attorneys want their clients to be.





_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

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RE: Protection or persecution? - 3/20/2014 2:03:59 AM   
Phydeaux


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Rank abuse.

highlighting some quotes:
"I was in jail for almost 13 days," Wiser said. "The first bond hearing I went to was on December 15. The judge ordered me [to be] held on a half million-dollar bond, pending a psychological evaluation.


"The court threatened to hold sanctions against me and my lawyer," he said. "I guess the prosecutor was upset because his inbox had been flooded with emails as a result of the petition."

This pisses me off BAD.

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RE: Protection or persecution? - 3/20/2014 2:06:27 AM   
crazyml


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Let me school you a bit in return.

This young man has not been convicted yet.

A grand jury can't convict a person, they can only determine whether a trial is necessary.

If the grand jury commits him to trial, he will get another hearing, in a court.

Do you understand things a little better now?

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RE: Protection or persecution? - 3/20/2014 4:49:54 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

FR

What business did the school have acting on youtube posts that included no threats.



This is what I (sort of) brought up before.

I'll bet you a dollar to a doughnut that he "stole a girl" from one of his classmates or some such shit and the classmate went all cry-baby on his ass and reported to the school that he knew where they could find "weapons".

The whole situation is a damned shame.





No wonder the idea sounded so familiar to me.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Protection or persecution? - 3/20/2014 4:51:28 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

FR

What business did the school have acting on youtube posts that included no threats.



This is what I (sort of) brought up before.

I'll bet you a dollar to a doughnut that he "stole a girl" from one of his classmates or some such shit and the classmate went all cry-baby on his ass and reported to the school that he knew where they could find "weapons".

The whole situation is a damned shame.





Your belief sounds likely.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 40
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