RE: This is going to get me crucified, but

RE: This is going to get me crucified, but (Full Version)

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Lucylastic -> RE: This is going to get me crucified, but (3/20/2014 1:09:59 PM)
Johnny...question.. you say you are happy to do whatever it takes to stop one non citizen from voting. I get that... however Are you supporting, those who cant vote despite being citizens, for whatever reason because from the sound of it, there are far more of those who will not be able to easily get their voting rights easily? what do you suggest?

MrRodgers -> RE: This is going to get me crucified, but (3/20/2014 1:30:38 PM)
Actually what the states need to do is conduct a new census every year so we can have a whole new set of voters and likewise gerrymandering so we can get the house of reps...[they] truly want. You gotta love democracy when the candidates can pick their voters instead of voters picking their candidate. Besides, does it really matter about all of these voter fraud claims ? Does it really matter who in the hell who is in office when they are both corrupt ? Do poor repub voters vote for a reduction in food stamps, medicaid, medicare and soc. sec. plus all other forms of the very federal assistance of which they avail themselves ? Ask the poor repub Floridians what they think ? Ask the poor Louisiana repub what they think of 242,000 of which they are many, now being denied medicaid. (love that ER) Ask the Alabamians who make more than about $3,300/yr. who likewise are too rich for fed. benefits. If there is time for the demos on these fed benefits to kick in and they aren't too stupid to see how it effects them, there will be millions who will migrate to blue states and vote blue because of it. Voter card shot notwithstanding.

errantgeek -> RE: This is going to get me crucified, but (3/20/2014 1:41:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny Nitpick it all you want. I'm fine laying the blame wherever it belongs. The politics don't matter to me. It also doesn't matter if it's one, one hundred, or one million. A non-citizen vote is illegal. I'll support any improvement that prevents that from happening. I would agree but for the political ramifications. It's not "nitpicking" to point out the laws to ameliorate this situation are already on the books but not being properly enforced, and in the vacuum of proper enforcement Republicans are seizing the opportunity to erect barriers to voting rather than actually solving the damn problem. It's no different than the voter ID issue altogether -- or early voting, absentee ballots, third-party and same-day registration, and any of the other myriad of electoral issues falling under the perceived purview of "voter fraud". What makes it particularly egregious is the simultaneous refusal to allow campaign finance reform, or do a damned thing about electoral fraud.

RottenJohnny -> RE: This is going to get me crucified, but (3/20/2014 4:21:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic Johnny...question.. you say you are happy to do whatever it takes to stop one non citizen from voting. I get that... however Are you supporting, those who cant vote despite being citizens, for whatever reason because from the sound of it, there are far more of those who will not be able to easily get their voting rights easily? what do you suggest? I support any US citizen getting their chance to cast their vote but I don't know if I have a good answer to your question, Lucy. I'm assuming you mostly mean real citizens who don't have a document like a birth certificate to prove they were born here so that's how I'll respond. The only way I can think of to correct that is to provide people with a method by which they can submit their relevant family history and have it researched by a government agency who then provides them with a confirmation document. I may be wrong but I expect in this day and age it would be difficult for a person or a member of their family to not have been documented somewhere at some time in their life that could be discovered if they were providing an accurate family history. And maybe that system already exists, I don't really know. If not, it should. Even then, everyone should realize it's not going to be 100% effective but it's better than nothing. In the meantime, we should be making sure that the steps used to document children born in the US are both irrefutable and universally applied so this isn't a continuous issue into the future. The way I see it, we have this problem because we've failed to be vigilant about citizenship and voting in the first place. No matter how we try to fix the problem, we may be stuck for a time having to accept that some people are getting screwed or some people are committing fraud until enough time has passed that the citizen/non-citizen divider is fully functioning.

RottenJohnny -> RE: This is going to get me crucified, but (3/20/2014 4:36:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: errantgeek quote: ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny Nitpick it all you want. I'm fine laying the blame wherever it belongs. The politics don't matter to me. It also doesn't matter if it's one, one hundred, or one million. A non-citizen vote is illegal. I'll support any improvement that prevents that from happening. I would agree but for the political ramifications. It's not "nitpicking" to point out the laws to ameliorate this situation are already on the books but not being properly enforced, and in the vacuum of proper enforcement Republicans are seizing the opportunity to erect barriers to voting rather than actually solving the damn problem. It's no different than the voter ID issue altogether -- or early voting, absentee ballots, third-party and same-day registration, and any of the other myriad of electoral issues falling under the perceived purview of "voter fraud". I agree that we need to be more vigilant about enforcement as well but like it or not, that barrier needs to go up if we have any respect for the idea of non-fraudulent voting. I'm not trying to be insulting, but are you sure you're not just upset because the Republicans are the ones supporting it? quote: What makes it particularly egregious is the simultaneous refusal to allow campaign finance reform... I certainly won't argue against that point. The way in which campaigns are allowed to be financed is my evidence that the idea of government being run "by the people, for the people" is dead in this country.

MercTech -> RE: This is going to get me crucified, but (3/20/2014 7:59:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny The only way I can think of to correct that is to provide people with a method by which they can submit their relevant family history and have it researched by a government agency who then provides them with a confirmation document. I may be wrong but I expect in this day and age it would be difficult for a person or a member of their family to not have been documented somewhere at some time in their life that could be discovered if they were providing an accurate family history. And maybe that system already exists, I don't really know. If not, it should. Even then, everyone should realize it's not going to be 100% effective but it's better than nothing. In the meantime, we should be making sure that the steps used to document children born in the US are both irrefutable and universally applied so this isn't a continuous issue into the future. The way I see it, we have this problem because we've failed to be vigilant about citizenship and voting in the first place. No matter how we try to fix the problem, we may be stuck for a time having to accept that some people are getting screwed or some people are committing fraud until enough time has passed that the citizen/non-citizen divider is fully functioning. I can tell you what you need to get a passport if you don't have the usual proof of citizenship. You need three people that will swear out an affidavit that they have personal knowledge that you were born either in the U.S.A. or were born of two U.S. citizens. Or, you could provide copies of multiple supporting documents. I remember giving my grandfather a lift to go do that for my great aunt so she could get a passport to go to Europe. It seems that home births before the 1930s were often never registered anywhere. Ok, that deals with proof to the federal government that you are a citizen. But, voter registration requirements are local law. And,t he requirements vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. There are various residency requirements and standards of proving residency. At one time, in many places, you had to show you had paid your taxes before being allowed to register to vote. (NO, buddy, you can vote in the election unless you are contributing kind of mindset.) The bottom line is that there is only one form of identification that requires certain proof of citizenship and that is the passport. (issued by the U.S. State Department in the U.S.A.) The requirement for multiple jurisdictions to verify citizenship before issuing identification documents, such as a driver's license, would put the burden on local government. And, if you moved to another jurisdiction; should you have to prove your citizenship to get identification in your new location or would identification be reciprocal with all the states as it is now? Lots of devilish details that can bite.

errantgeek -> RE: This is going to get me crucified, but (3/20/2014 8:14:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny I agree that we need to be more vigilant about enforcement as well but like it or not, that barrier needs to go up if we have any respect for the idea of non-fraudulent voting. I'm not trying to be insulting, but are you sure you're not just upset because the Republicans are the ones supporting it? You miss my point. There is no need for this barrier whatsoever -- simply ensure election boards and officials, and BMV's, are doing their blasted job. New laws are not going to help if the laws that are already on the books are not being enforced, and in this case the laws are already on the books and not being enforced.

RottenJohnny -> RE: This is going to get me crucified, but (3/21/2014 1:15:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: errantgeek quote: ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny I agree that we need to be more vigilant about enforcement as well but like it or not, that barrier needs to go up if we have any respect for the idea of non-fraudulent voting. I'm not trying to be insulting, but are you sure you're not just upset because the Republicans are the ones supporting it? You miss my point. There is no need for this barrier whatsoever -- simply ensure election boards and officials, and BMV's, are doing their blasted job. New laws are not going to help if the laws that are already on the books are not being enforced, and in this case the laws are already on the books and not being enforced. Gotchya. And if getting them to do their jobs improves the situation, I'd be fine with that. Otherwise, it might be worth trying something else. But no matter which way it goes, I think there needs to be a way of insuring non-citizens aren't voting.

DaddySatyr -> RE: This is going to get me crucified, but (3/21/2014 1:46:08 AM)
I think the idea of a voter ID card would help all those agencies to enforce the laws that many seem to be able to circumvent. I moved here to Pennsyltucky about a year ago and when I finally went to get my license changed over, I was asked right at the MV agency if I wished to register to vote. Since I had to bring three forms of ID and all of that bullshit, they were fairly confident that I was who I said I was (and I am). I don't think it's that big a deal, in a lot of cases. Where I think the issue resides is with a lot of these "get out the vote" efforts. I don't trust them. I think that is where a large portion of registration fraud comes in. Now, there's been a lot of talk about people that can't get to the DMV or wherever and that's a fair point but, I know "GOTV" movements that go door-to-door. Why not expand on that. If people are so worried that there are people that will be over-looked, let the "GOTV" organizations bear some of the onus. Surely, if they came knocking on my door, I would be able to produce the required documents to satisfy most of the newer proposals I've heard bandied about. I realize that's not the case with all but, I would think it's the case with a good number of people. In the neighborhood where I lived in NJ, there were constantly "GOTV" sweeps. It always amazed me that they were willing to register anyone in the edifice without any kind of ID or proof of eligibility (especially since I knew that quite a few families on my block were here, illegally). I really believe that's where the biggest issue is. Having said all of that, I don't think it's "okay" if non-citizens or non-resident aliens vote in our elections. I believe we have a right (and possibly a duty) to make sure that it doesn't happen.

joether -> RE: This is going to get me crucified, but (3/21/2014 3:27:58 AM)
I find it amusing how the conservatives on here ALWAYS bitch about more regulations and laws. An yet, here they are, doing the exact same thing. This thread is a thinly veiled attack on the good citizens of this country. There have been three separate Voter Fraud-like threads over the past year and a half. In each one, some conservatives started off by saying we need extensive laws covering all aspects of the voter. An in each of these were all sorts of wild examples of massive voter fraud taking place. Of illegal aliens, dead people (zombies?), foreigners, and even actual aliens voting in favor of Democrats. Since if they were all voting for Republicans, not one thread would come up, right? An in each thread, not one person could establish an ounce of positive, verified, and credible evidence of actual voter fraud in any of the last four presidential or mid-term elections in all fifty states, six territories and one district. Not one of the threads could show even 1% of the total vote was voter fraud. That would have been around 1.07 million fraudulent votes in the last presidential election. Nor 0.1% (about 107K), 0.01% (about 10,700), or 0.001% (about 1,070). The last election between President Obama and Mr. Romney was settled by several million votes and many electoral college votes. Not even 1% would have changed would have changed things in favor for Mr. Romney. So why all the threads, laws, and hollering about voter fraud; when in reality there is not a credible amount? There is no profit in cheating the current system, not when the penalty when caught and found guilty is pretty damn deep. The answer is to make sure the boogyman, toothfairy, and santa claus do not vote for the Democrats. Its funny if you think about it. Conservatives are generally against the Theory of Evolution and Climate Change. Both of which have mountain ranges of evidence to back them up. Yet, when it comes to voter fraud there is not even so much as a 10 page verified, document stating voter fraud is out of control. So while conservatives fight against what the scientist believe is the best courses of action on climate change, with all this evidence; we should bow down to their demands over a concept they cant even show is even effecting this nation at a 0.001% rate, let alone 1%! I would fight any law that states I have to show my ID when I vote. Last I checked, I'm protected under the 4th amendment against illegal searches....UNLESS....there is probable cause. That probable cause comes in.....ONLY....if I'm doing something illegal. If I say who I am and where I live, that's all that needed for me to vote. If someone wishes to state that I am not who I say I am and/or where I live. Its up to them to show EVIDENCE to the police officer. I do not have to prove anything. Last I checked, this is the United States, right? A person is INNOCENT until proven guilty in a COURT OF LAW. Courts of law are NEVER inside voting stations. They have to show....EVIDENCE....of possible wrong doing to the police officer* What this is, is just an end-run-around the US Constitution, by conservatives to force their will upon all other US Citizens. *: In Massachusetts, police officers are a bit more advanced apparently (given the nature of this thread and the other three) than red state police officers. All the police officer has to do, is take out his police issued smartphone, dial up the Registry of Motor Vehicles. Ask for my name and address (which last I checked, I do not have to do for two reasons: the 4th and 5th amendment). Lets just say I comply with that information. He'll get an image of me, plus all the data (height, weight, age, and other assorted information). Thus proving I am who I say I am and most likely I live where I said I lived. THEN....I would sue the FUCK out of the idiot that challenged me! And just like all those states that ban gay marriage, those laws 'preventing' voter fraud will also be destroyed. To which I have to ask: Was it a colossal waste of TAXPAYER MONEY to push this political stunt? Yes it was! An it'll be the conservatives who are blamed once more for spending the nation's resources on another bullshit project.

DesideriScuri -> RE: This is going to get me crucified, but (3/21/2014 7:36:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether I find it amusing how the conservatives on here ALWAYS bitch about more regulations and laws. An yet, here they are, doing the exact same thing. And, you completely miss the point (not unusual). Conservatives bitch about more regulation and laws, when they feel there is already too much regulation. Here, however, there isn't all that much regulation. How many people on these boards welcomed the Dodd/Frank Financial overhaul bill, in the wake of the Great Recession? The CBO scored it and said it wouldn't have stopped the Great Recession had it been in place prior to it. So, now, we have more regulation that wouldn't have prevented the event that spawned it's existence in the first place. errantgeek presents the case that there are already laws on the books to prevent the abuse, so more aren't needed. The ones on the books need to be followed. Guess what. There were plenty of laws and regulations on the books that could have (and should have) prevented the Great Recession, but the regulators weren't paying attention. The Federal Reserve was negligent in it's functioning. Yet, what we needed was more regulation. [8\|]

RottenJohnny -> RE: This is going to get me crucified, but (3/21/2014 10:28:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether I find it amusing how the conservatives on here ALWAYS bitch about more regulations and laws. An yet, here they are, doing the exact same thing. This thread is a thinly veiled attack on the good citizens of this country. There have been three separate Voter Fraud-like threads over the past year and a half. In each one, some conservatives started off by saying we need extensive laws covering all aspects of the voter. An in each of these were all sorts of wild examples of massive voter fraud taking place. Of illegal aliens, dead people (zombies?), foreigners, and even actual aliens voting in favor of Democrats. Since if they were all voting for Republicans, not one thread would come up, right? An in each thread, not one person could establish an ounce of positive, verified, and credible evidence of actual voter fraud in any of the last four presidential or mid-term elections in all fifty states, six territories and one district. Not one of the threads could show even 1% of the total vote was voter fraud. That would have been around 1.07 million fraudulent votes in the last presidential election. Nor 0.1% (about 107K), 0.01% (about 10,700), or 0.001% (about 1,070). The last election between President Obama and Mr. Romney was settled by several million votes and many electoral college votes. Not even 1% would have changed would have changed things in favor for Mr. Romney. So why all the threads, laws, and hollering about voter fraud; when in reality there is not a credible amount? There is no profit in cheating the current system, not when the penalty when caught and found guilty is pretty damn deep. The answer is to make sure the boogyman, toothfairy, and santa claus do not vote for the Democrats. Its funny if you think about it. Conservatives are generally against the Theory of Evolution and Climate Change. Both of which have mountain ranges of evidence to back them up. Yet, when it comes to voter fraud there is not even so much as a 10 page verified, document stating voter fraud is out of control. So while conservatives fight against what the scientist believe is the best courses of action on climate change, with all this evidence; we should bow down to their demands over a concept they cant even show is even effecting this nation at a 0.001% rate, let alone 1%! I would fight any law that states I have to show my ID when I vote. Last I checked, I'm protected under the 4th amendment against illegal searches....UNLESS....there is probable cause. That probable cause comes in.....ONLY....if I'm doing something illegal. If I say who I am and where I live, that's all that needed for me to vote. If someone wishes to state that I am not who I say I am and/or where I live. Its up to them to show EVIDENCE to the police officer. I do not have to prove anything. Last I checked, this is the United States, right? A person is INNOCENT until proven guilty in a COURT OF LAW. Courts of law are NEVER inside voting stations. They have to show....EVIDENCE....of possible wrong doing to the police officer* What this is, is just an end-run-around the US Constitution, by conservatives to force their will upon all other US Citizens. *: In Massachusetts, police officers are a bit more advanced apparently (given the nature of this thread and the other three) than red state police officers. All the police officer has to do, is take out his police issued smartphone, dial up the Registry of Motor Vehicles. Ask for my name and address (which last I checked, I do not have to do for two reasons: the 4th and 5th amendment). Lets just say I comply with that information. He'll get an image of me, plus all the data (height, weight, age, and other assorted information). Thus proving I am who I say I am and most likely I live where I said I lived. THEN....I would sue the FUCK out of the idiot that challenged me! And just like all those states that ban gay marriage, those laws 'preventing' voter fraud will also be destroyed. To which I have to ask: Was it a colossal waste of TAXPAYER MONEY to push this political stunt? Yes it was! An it'll be the conservatives who are blamed once more for spending the nation's resources on another bullshit project. You bring new meaning to the word "judgmental"...or would that be two words, "judge" and "mental"?

DomKen -> RE: This is going to get me crucified, but (3/21/2014 10:32:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: joether I find it amusing how the conservatives on here ALWAYS bitch about more regulations and laws. An yet, here they are, doing the exact same thing. And, you completely miss the point (not unusual). Conservatives bitch about more regulation and laws, when they feel there is already too much regulation. Here, however, there isn't all that much regulation. Actually there is plenty. Every state has an election board whose duty it is to verify the voter registrations that are turned in. And they do a good job. The registrars turn in every registration they get because that is the law even when they believe it is fraudulent. This recent panic over nonexistent voter registration fraud is simply a smoke screen to try and make it harder for demographics Republicans don't want voting to get registered and to cast their votes. Voter suppression efforts, which effect far more votes but favor Republicans, are being completely ignored by these "champions" of the integrity of the voting process.

DesideriScuri -> RE: This is going to get me crucified, but (3/21/2014 10:58:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: joether I find it amusing how the conservatives on here ALWAYS bitch about more regulations and laws. An yet, here they are, doing the exact same thing. And, you completely miss the point (not unusual). Conservatives bitch about more regulation and laws, when they feel there is already too much regulation. Here, however, there isn't all that much regulation. Actually there is plenty. Every state has an election board whose duty it is to verify the voter registrations that are turned in. And they do a good job. The registrars turn in every registration they get because that is the law even when they believe it is fraudulent. This recent panic over nonexistent voter registration fraud is simply a smoke screen to try and make it harder for demographics Republicans don't want voting to get registered and to cast their votes. Voter suppression efforts, which effect far more votes but favor Republicans, are being completely ignored by these "champions" of the integrity of the voting process. Uh huh. Whatever, Ken. --Yawn--

Phydeaux -> RE: This is going to get me crucified, but (3/21/2014 2:33:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether ! An it'll be the conservatives who are blamed once more for spending the nation's resources on another bullshit project. Right after the republicans win the senate, no doubt.

errantgeek -> RE: This is going to get me crucified, but (3/21/2014 2:43:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri How many people on these boards welcomed the Dodd/Frank Financial overhaul bill, in the wake of the Great Recession? The CBO scored it and said it wouldn't have stopped the Great Recession had it been in place prior to it. So, now, we have more regulation that wouldn't have prevented the event that spawned it's existence in the first place. errantgeek presents the case that there are already laws on the books to prevent the abuse, so more aren't needed. The ones on the books need to be followed. Guess what. There were plenty of laws and regulations on the books that could have (and should have) prevented the Great Recession, but the regulators weren't paying attention. The Federal Reserve was negligent in it's functioning. Yet, what we needed was more regulation. Citation needed, and red herring noted.

Arturas -> RE: This is going to get me crucified, but (3/21/2014 4:01:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: errantgeek You know, this is just me but if this wasn't another brazen attempt by Republicans to turn legal voters who are in demographics that trend Democratic away from the polls, I just might agree with it. The day Republicans make it easier to prove citizenship and vote, at least for anyone who isn't a tried-and-true red demographic, instead of raise barriers to voting will be the day I recant my position. Yes. Brazen. Yes. What could be easier than to show you are breathing? I suggest we allow anything that breaths to vote. Wait. That means you have to show up and breath. What about just showing you can eat and we have the polls on the dollar menu at McDonalds. They re on every corner and you go there and buy a dollar double cheeze or McChicken and a fry even and cast your vote. One order of fries, one vote I say.

DomKen -> RE: This is going to get me crucified, but (3/21/2014 5:25:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: joether I find it amusing how the conservatives on here ALWAYS bitch about more regulations and laws. An yet, here they are, doing the exact same thing. And, you completely miss the point (not unusual). Conservatives bitch about more regulation and laws, when they feel there is already too much regulation. Here, however, there isn't all that much regulation. Actually there is plenty. Every state has an election board whose duty it is to verify the voter registrations that are turned in. And they do a good job. The registrars turn in every registration they get because that is the law even when they believe it is fraudulent. This recent panic over nonexistent voter registration fraud is simply a smoke screen to try and make it harder for demographics Republicans don't want voting to get registered and to cast their votes. Voter suppression efforts, which effect far more votes but favor Republicans, are being completely ignored by these "champions" of the integrity of the voting process. Uh huh. Whatever, Ken. --Yawn-- So if 1 fraudulent vote is cast what should happen to that person and shouldn't the exact same punishment be visited upon anyone who suppresses a vote? Want to bet the jails will fill up with GOP operatives long before you get even 100 fraudulent voters?

Arturas -> RE: This is going to get me crucified, but (3/21/2014 7:07:22 PM)
This is really simple. You are trying on purpose to make it hard. You need a birth certificate even if you never vote. You cannot get a SSN without it. You cannot work a job without an SSN. You therefore must have one. If you do not then you must make the effort to get one. So, even if there were no voter fraud occurrences, one needs to have a birth certificate as the basic primary overriding uber this is it no shit document to prove who you are. That's it and if you want to vote then you need one so, let me hear you say it with me, so you can prove who you are and we want to prove who we are, don't we because we are all responsible citizens of the U.S. just like all the Europeans have to have such a thing to prove who they are when they vote, yes folks, the leftist ever social amazing Europeans must have a birth certificate no matter what and you can stuff that "oh, it is soooo hard and oh, I am black and poor and was born in the swamps of Louisiana and we did not have any doctor or paper or even nothing except a hut and nobody could read twice and boo hooo it's so mean to make me, a poor black Hispanic Seminole Indian Native American to get up off my butt, write the office of vital statistics in the state in which you were born and start that somewhat lengthy but certainly doable process to get your birth certificate because you want to vote like a responsible citizen and so every responsible citizen has a birth certificate if they want to prove who they are. There, no need to define an alternate universe where you just walk up with an old electric bill from somewhere and vote for the name on it. Okay, we got it now everyone? In other words get your shit together and quit blaming someone else because you have obviously mistaken Americans for fools who give a shit that you don't want to get a birth certificate before you vote and would rather whine to the press or the Most Reverend Al Sharpton or the Even More Reverend Jessie "secret love child" Jackson and have them run up and down the cable news networks crying about the unreasonable GOP trying to make people do unreasonable things, like get their fucking birth certificate for crying out loud so shut the fuck up and get your shit together, get a birth certificate for crying out loud cause we are fucking tired of hearing the sob story and we got other things to do, like repeal the mess and you know which one it is.

Arturas -> RE: This is going to get me crucified, but (3/21/2014 7:15:40 PM)
...and that was a positive post because I went very light on you and it is for your own good, not mine and you know I give a shit about you and your being born in a swamp and not having a birth certificate or you lost it crossing a fence just on the Arizona border where you had gone fishing for the day, no shit and you lost your drivers license there too not to mention the ability to drive safely but that is akay because if you have a wreak in that mini-van you bought from the corner lot you just bail and leave the dying American burning in his car and you run to vote another day soon.

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