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RE: American Schools Still Racist? - 3/22/2014 12:51:23 AM   
Arturas


Posts: 3245
Status: offline 		I think by "threat assessment" you mean that the school does not suspend unless the issue did not meet some amazingly well thought out but completely inappropriate guildline which in turn must at some point be subjectively applied in a manner tailored to produced the pre-planned and desired outcome, that being to ignore enough outbursts because they are from black children and nobody was hurt so we will just give them a talking to or even lecture the little white guy they were picking on about "provoking" fellow students and we all look better. My head is going to explode, give me some duct tape please.

< Message edited by Arturas -- 3/22/2014 12:54:35 AM >

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RE: American Schools Still Racist? - 3/22/2014 1:06:48 AM   
Arturas


Posts: 3245
Status: offline 		Yeah, I saw this "threat assessment" based policy first in action in 1998 in an Indiana middle school while we were up there for contract work on year. I watched the female principal ignore a student cursing right next to her and walk away into her office. I realize now she was doing "thread assessment" and since the student was calm and non-threatening while cursing on school property then she decided it must be the parent's fault or some impatient teacher or another student and besides nobody was hurt so ignore it.

My principal would have had me paddled, a note home to my mother who would have washed my mouth out with soap and paddled me and of course I would have been mortified and never did that again to another student or my wife in the future and would be better for it.

Racist my ass. When were they ever racist? Never, it is a made up problem. The problem is how black children are raised by non-existent fathers and as long as we apologize for that and never put the blame where it should really be then nothing gets fixed and we must pull our children out of public schools because they are undisciplined by design now trying to fix a problem with black children that they can never correct because they are not the cause nor can they affect the cause by ignoring the cause and because they try doing that more and more each year this means our schools are run insanely if one apples the definition of insane actions..

< Message edited by Arturas -- 3/22/2014 1:09:28 AM >

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RE: American Schools Still Racist? - 3/22/2014 1:11:35 AM   
Arturas


Posts: 3245
Status: offline 		...which then dovetails into the statement I have heard from time to time that progressive thought is a mental illness, it is insane. Now I understand why one hears that given the outcomes we have witnessed historically and even now with you know what.

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RE: American Schools Still Racist? - 3/22/2014 1:59:01 AM   
ElectraGlide


Posts: 1246
Joined: 11/25/2005
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		I went to this High School before and after bussing and what an overnight change it was. Before the Imports from the city rolled in it was a clean school, then it had magic marker graffiti all over the dam place. I have no data to prove this but it was in the news paper that one race was getting suspended at a higher rate then the other race. All of a sudden the other race was getting suspended left and right to make up for the gap. It was in Delaware in the early 80's. I hate to say just 2 races here but the media tends to put just 2 races against the others and ignore the 50 other races. The media likes to jack up one race killing the other also, when in big cities its the same race killing each other all day long and its no big deal. I am not pointing at a certain race, I am white, but if white trash in lower income areas kill each other, it goes no where with the media, because it won't spark certain tabloid type tabloid emotions.

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RE: American Schools Still Racist? - 3/22/2014 7:10:19 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
I love the pontificating. Did no one actually go and find the Department of Education report?
http://ocrdata.ed.gov/Home
You can actually look at individual school districts and even individual schools and the results are very troubling.


I think you might need to explain how the results are troubling. Please. Show how they prove racism.


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RE: American Schools Still Racist? - 3/22/2014 8:39:00 AM   
VideoAdminGamma


Posts: 2233
Status: offline 		A reminder:

quote:

ORIGINAL: VideoAdminChi

Effective immediately, labeling someone a "racist" or "Islamaphobe" is a personal attack. However, in our long standing rule of being able to attack the post but not the poster, you may discuss someone's "racist beliefs" or "Islamaphobic beliefs."

Thank you for making CollarMe a better place,

Chi


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RE: American Schools Still Racist? - 3/22/2014 8:40:30 AM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
I love the pontificating. Did no one actually go and find the Department of Education report?
http://ocrdata.ed.gov/Home
You can actually look at individual school districts and even individual schools and the results are very troubling.


I think you might need to explain how the results are troubling. Please. Show how they prove racism.


I too would like to see rigorous field studies but I think the large disparity in the raw numbers cannot be ignored. Guessing from my own experiences and observations of teaching 30 years in public schools there is much to be done in teacher training to lead with non-authoritarian skills. Successful teaching is based on the development of a relationship of reciprocal respect between the teacher and student. I observed too many instances where that was lacking. A teacher needs to be more than a lecturer. So, I put a lot of the burden on teachers and their minimal training in interpersonal skills. I wasn't so pure either. I had winners and losers in my relationships with kids.

Another improvement imo would be to increase support staff within the school (administrators and counselors). They are over burdened. I recall teaching in an urban high school with 2000 student population but only two assistant principals and three counselors, which is absurd.

I think the issue is a cultural gap as I mentioned earlier. The numbers of expulsions from preschool gives a clue to that. Okay, black children come from lower economic strata, are less likely to have a father figure, have learned lower reading skills, have learned to be distrustful of white society (speaking in general here of course) All of that is not so easily changed. What can be changed is how teachers are trained and how schools deal with this population of students, how relationships are developed. Black children demand respect. Very often that is not given.

My Jumping off my soap box, tyvm

< Message edited by vincentML -- 3/22/2014 8:48:19 AM >

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RE: American Schools Still Racist? - 3/22/2014 9:03:36 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Of course we will comply but is this not just nitpicking? To me at least, I see no difference in saying someone is racists or having racists beliefs...one in the same.

I am not debating ...questioning your rights as admin... just a comment on common sense which I am big on... If not displaying it with this message.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 3/22/2014 9:04:53 AM >

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RE: American Schools Still Racist? - 3/22/2014 9:30:53 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VideoAdminGamma

A reminder:

quote:

ORIGINAL: VideoAdminChi

Effective immediately, labeling someone a "racist" or "Islamaphobe" is a personal attack. However, in our long standing rule of being able to attack the post but not the poster, you may discuss someone's "racist beliefs" or "Islamaphobic beliefs."

Thank you for making CollarMe a better place,

Chi


http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4616875

I obeyed the rules exactly as you explained them to me. Why was my post deleted?

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: American Schools Still Racist? - 3/22/2014 9:33:50 AM   
GoddessManko


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/6/2013
From: Dante's Inferno
Status: offline 		Honestly I can tell you based on my county that I have seen bad teachers kept and good teachers let go. I think the administration needs to do more there. I wish I had the knowledge I do now when I was a student because I never had my parents micromanage my education. There is tendency of people to forget teachers are only human and they trust too easily. For example, the teachers showing up on the news for having relations with students, and majority of them are pretty young women who probably have no issue with male attention. There is something really wrong there with the lack of oversight. It goes beyond racism in my opinion.

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RE: American Schools Still Racist? - 3/22/2014 9:41:31 AM   
JstAnotherSub


Posts: 6174
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I love the pontificating. Did no one actually go and find the Department of Education report?
http://ocrdata.ed.gov/Home
You can actually look at individual school districts and even individual schools and the results are very troubling.

I wonder about the accuracy of these numbers, since there are only a few schools from each district listed.

I wonder how they decided which ones to report on?

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RE: American Schools Still Racist? - 3/22/2014 9:47:17 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
I love the pontificating. Did no one actually go and find the Department of Education report?
http://ocrdata.ed.gov/Home
You can actually look at individual school districts and even individual schools and the results are very troubling.


I think you might need to explain how the results are troubling. Please. Show how they prove racism.


I find it unlikely that a school district with a 10% black enrollment, for example, would have 30% of it's suspensions be from the black population across the entire district. That is simply not statistically sound.

For instance the Escambia County School district, that's Pensacola Florida.
http://ocrdata.ed.gov/Page?t=d&eid=31607&syk=6&pid=736
black enrollment is 32.5%
black in school suspensions is 62.7%
black out of school suspensions is 50.1%

For a district that big that's a big imbalance.

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: American Schools Still Racist? - 3/22/2014 9:48:40 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I love the pontificating. Did no one actually go and find the Department of Education report?
http://ocrdata.ed.gov/Home
You can actually look at individual school districts and even individual schools and the results are very troubling.

I wonder about the accuracy of these numbers, since there are only a few schools from each district listed.

I wonder how they decided which ones to report on?

Every, public at least, school in the nation is listed.

(in reply to JstAnotherSub)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: American Schools Still Racist? - 3/22/2014 10:04:57 AM   
JstAnotherSub


Posts: 6174
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I love the pontificating. Did no one actually go and find the Department of Education report?
http://ocrdata.ed.gov/Home
You can actually look at individual school districts and even individual schools and the results are very troubling.

I wonder about the accuracy of these numbers, since there are only a few schools from each district listed.

I wonder how they decided which ones to report on?

Every, public at least, school in the nation is listed.


My bad. I screwed up the search feature and only saw a few from the district I was looking for info on. Going to read now.

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: American Schools Still Racist? - 3/22/2014 11:18:32 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
I love the pontificating. Did no one actually go and find the Department of Education report?
http://ocrdata.ed.gov/Home
You can actually look at individual school districts and even individual schools and the results are very troubling.

I think you might need to explain how the results are troubling. Please. Show how they prove racism.

I find it unlikely that a school district with a 10% black enrollment, for example, would have 30% of it's suspensions be from the black population across the entire district. That is simply not statistically sound.
For instance the Escambia County School district, that's Pensacola Florida.
http://ocrdata.ed.gov/Page?t=d&eid=31607&syk=6&pid=736
black enrollment is 32.5%
black in school suspensions is 62.7%
black out of school suspensions is 50.1%
For a district that big that's a big imbalance.


Thank you for explaining. Your basis for assertions of racism in the schools is that you find it unlikely the results are anything but racism.

How damning.


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What I support:

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  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: American Schools Still Racist? - 3/22/2014 12:08:50 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
I love the pontificating. Did no one actually go and find the Department of Education report?
http://ocrdata.ed.gov/Home
You can actually look at individual school districts and even individual schools and the results are very troubling.

I think you might need to explain how the results are troubling. Please. Show how they prove racism.

I find it unlikely that a school district with a 10% black enrollment, for example, would have 30% of it's suspensions be from the black population across the entire district. That is simply not statistically sound.
For instance the Escambia County School district, that's Pensacola Florida.
http://ocrdata.ed.gov/Page?t=d&eid=31607&syk=6&pid=736
black enrollment is 32.5%
black in school suspensions is 62.7%
black out of school suspensions is 50.1%
For a district that big that's a big imbalance.


Thank you for explaining. Your basis for assertions of racism in the schools is that you find it unlikely the results are anything but racism.

How damning.


How damning depends on how you define racism. Institutional racism can be overt as in Jim Crow Laws and segregation, or it can be covert. Two ways it can be covert: 1) pretending the numbers are meaningless, and 2) accepting there is a problem but not implementing solutions.

Please note that I referred to INSTITUTIONAL racism. I am not suggesting anything about posters here.

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: American Schools Still Racist? - 3/22/2014 12:27:42 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
I love the pontificating. Did no one actually go and find the Department of Education report?
http://ocrdata.ed.gov/Home
You can actually look at individual school districts and even individual schools and the results are very troubling.

I think you might need to explain how the results are troubling. Please. Show how they prove racism.

I find it unlikely that a school district with a 10% black enrollment, for example, would have 30% of it's suspensions be from the black population across the entire district. That is simply not statistically sound.
For instance the Escambia County School district, that's Pensacola Florida.
http://ocrdata.ed.gov/Page?t=d&eid=31607&syk=6&pid=736
black enrollment is 32.5%
black in school suspensions is 62.7%
black out of school suspensions is 50.1%
For a district that big that's a big imbalance.

Thank you for explaining. Your basis for assertions of racism in the schools is that you find it unlikely the results are anything but racism.
How damning.

How damning depends on how you define racism. Institutional racism can be overt as in Jim Crow Laws and segregation, or it can be covert. Two ways it can be covert: 1) pretending the numbers are meaningless, and 2) accepting there is a problem but not implementing solutions.
Please note that I referred to INSTITUTIONAL racism. I am not suggesting anything about posters here.


These numbers may be meaningless, and are meaningless as they stand. We need more information. If black students are committing twice as many "crimes," is it racism that they are punished twice as much?

What the numbers aren't showing is how many incidents are being committed, broken down by race, and the outcomes of those incidents, also broken down by race. If blacks are punished twice as often as whites, but not committing twice as many incidents, then that would seem to point towards racism. But, we don't have those numbers, do we? That's where the "proper investigation" comes in.

Is a 6'2" 235# man out of shape? Obese? Fat? Those two numbers alone aren't enough information.

I contend that the report isn't enough information, either.


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What I support:

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  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: American Schools Still Racist? - 3/22/2014 12:53:30 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
I love the pontificating. Did no one actually go and find the Department of Education report?
http://ocrdata.ed.gov/Home
You can actually look at individual school districts and even individual schools and the results are very troubling.

I think you might need to explain how the results are troubling. Please. Show how they prove racism.

I find it unlikely that a school district with a 10% black enrollment, for example, would have 30% of it's suspensions be from the black population across the entire district. That is simply not statistically sound.
For instance the Escambia County School district, that's Pensacola Florida.
http://ocrdata.ed.gov/Page?t=d&eid=31607&syk=6&pid=736
black enrollment is 32.5%
black in school suspensions is 62.7%
black out of school suspensions is 50.1%
For a district that big that's a big imbalance.


Thank you for explaining. Your basis for assertions of racism in the schools is that you find it unlikely the results are anything but racism.

How damning.


Are you really arguing that across a school district that large the black children are simply twice as likely to misbehave to the point where they get detention and 50% more likely to get suspended from school?

Your assumption that minority youth are more prone to the sorts of trouble that gets them disciplined is exactly the problem.

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: American Schools Still Racist? - 3/22/2014 1:03:41 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Are you really arguing that across a school district that large the black children are simply twice as likely to misbehave to the point where they get detention and 50% more likely to get suspended from school?
Your assumption that minority youth are more prone to the sorts of trouble that gets them disciplined is exactly the problem.


I'm arguing that there isn't enough information to prove racism is present. I'm not saying racism isn't present, but that there isn't enough information to prove it is.

I have made no assumptions about the behaviors of minority youth. Why are you arguing against making sure we know what the problem actually is before bringing about policy to correct it?


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: American Schools Still Racist? - 3/22/2014 1:30:16 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Are you really arguing that across a school district that large the black children are simply twice as likely to misbehave to the point where they get detention and 50% more likely to get suspended from school?
Your assumption that minority youth are more prone to the sorts of trouble that gets them disciplined is exactly the problem.


I'm arguing that there isn't enough information to prove racism is present. I'm not saying racism isn't present, but that there isn't enough information to prove it is.

I have made no assumptions about the behaviors of minority youth. Why are you arguing against making sure we know what the problem actually is before bringing about policy to correct it?


I simply do not believe that minority youth misbehave more frequently than whites in the same schools. That pernicious stereotyping is what allows teachers and principals to get away with calling a white kid's parents and the police for the black kid for the same offence.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 40
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