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I see disrespect for authority as different from disagreement with authority. I don't agree with a huge part of what the federal government has done. That doesn't mean I disrespect the federal government by telling the local cops where they can stuff something vile. It is a pattern of disrespect for anyone outside themselves that becomes a problem. Perhaps explanation by example would work better.

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This is the type of disrespect for authority I see as a learned trait. My own experience as a kid was being taught to follow the instructions of those in authority for the situation. And take it to my parent if I was told something that didn't seem right to me. (And that happened more than once.)

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

Equal access to education? Good luck with that?

Students of color receive more punishment and have less access to experienced teachers beginning as early as preschool.

Black students in public schools are suspended at triple the rate as white students.

Proportionally more are referred to law enforcement and more are arrested for crimes in school.

More troubling: "Students with disabilities make up one-fourth of students referred to law enforcement or arrested, although they represent 13 percent of the student population. Students with disabilities are twice as likely to be suspended out of school than peers, with 13 percent of such students being sent home for misbehaving. One of four boy students of color who have disabilities and one in five girl students of color who have disabilities were suspended. Students of color include all non-white ethnic groups except Latino and Asian-American."

I realize this is a sensitive topic and people with divergent views might remain silent for fear of being labeled racist. I hope this will not happen here. I think this topic needs an open and fearless discussion. So, your thoughts please. Is the data the result of systematic racism in the schools as the article claims or are there other issues to be considered? What can be done to correct the problem?
ARTICLE

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

Equal access to education? Good luck with that?

Students of color receive more punishment and have less access to experienced teachers beginning as early as preschool.

Black students in public schools are suspended at triple the rate as white students.

Proportionally more are referred to law enforcement and more are arrested for crimes in school.

More troubling: "Students with disabilities make up one-fourth of students referred to law enforcement or arrested, although they represent 13 percent of the student population. Students with disabilities are twice as likely to be suspended out of school than peers, with 13 percent of such students being sent home for misbehaving. One of four boy students of color who have disabilities and one in five girl students of color who have disabilities were suspended. Students of color include all non-white ethnic groups except Latino and Asian-American."

I realize this is a sensitive topic and people with divergent views might remain silent for fear of being labeled racist. I hope this will not happen here. I think this topic needs an open and fearless discussion. So, your thoughts please. Is the data the result of systematic racism in the schools as the article claims or are there other issues to be considered? What can be done to correct the problem?
ARTICLE

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Humans have been opting to classify one or more races/classes of other humans as lower/higher in the food chain than themselves since we climbed out of the ooze.

It will be happening for another 900 millennia and longer.

It's stoooopit. It sucks. Move on.

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Something has to be done, but it starts with people getting proactive about it. Americans have two forms of power. In the public sector, their vote. In the private sector, their consumerism. People think they shouldn't have to babysit their politicians and representatives, but they do. If 96% of people voting for the superintendent are white, who do you think will get representation?
Yet news outlets never bring up the issue of voting statistics. Voting for yourself is a more powerful message than not voting but some people think it's an actual statement. It is. Apathy. People died for that right. Remember always.

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Shouldn't causation be treated, rather than simply treating correlation?

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ORIGINAL: Kirata

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

The role of leaders is to gain respect and trust by modeling it and by showing they have something of value to offer their followers. Respect is a two way street. If teachings want respect from students they earn it by giving respect and by giving a school experience that is desirable, by winning the hearts and minds.

The role of teachers is to teach. The role of students is to learn. Everything else is either secondary, or psychobabble. Winning hearts and minds? Seriously? Teachers should be treated with respect whether or not the student "respects" them. Otherwise, the only thing you're preparing these kids for is to be disliked and unemployed.

K.

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ORIGINAL: kdsub

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Shouldn't causation be treated, rather than simply treating correlation?

I would think in the case of schools that is beyond their control. Society is who must change the cause...schools must deal with reality...which are so called correlated facts.
One of the big problems we have with schools in America is the perception that school policies are the cause of racial problems rather than the attempt to deal with them... Otherwise we should not expect schools to reflect anything different than what exists in society.
Butch

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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Humans have been opting to classify one or more races/classes of other humans as lower/higher in the food chain than themselves since we climbed out of the ooze.

It will be happening for another 900 millennia and longer.

It's stoooopit. It sucks. Move on.

Interesting, Lookie. I am not sure it started that far in the distant past. More likely when the great explorations began by Europeans in the 15th C, but I am not certain of that.

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ORIGINAL: kdsub

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Shouldn't causation be treated, rather than simply treating correlation?

I would think in the case of schools that is beyond their control. Society is who must change the cause...schools must deal with reality...which are so called correlated facts.

One of the big problems we have with schools in America is the perception that school policies are the cause of racial problems rather than the attempt to deal with them... Otherwise we should not expect schools to reflect anything different than what exists in society.

Butch

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

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ORIGINAL: Kirata

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ORIGINAL: vincentML

The role of leaders is to gain respect and trust by modeling it and by showing they have something of value to offer their followers. Respect is a two way street. If teachings want respect from students they earn it by giving respect and by giving a school experience that is desirable, by winning the hearts and minds.

The role of teachers is to teach. The role of students is to learn. Everything else is either secondary, or psychobabble. Winning hearts and minds? Seriously? Teachers should be treated with respect whether or not the student "respects" them. Otherwise, the only thing you're preparing these kids for is to be disliked and unemployed.

K.

Oh, if only the world of public education were as simple and straight forward as in your dreams!

Many of these students are already disliked and unemployable before they begin, and they probably know it. The black children I taught seemed to fall into two major groups (with many in between of course) There were the strivers who seriously sought an education and looked forward to college and then there were the reactionaries who taunted the strivers for "acting white." The reactionaries (for lack of a better word) were encumbered by their own skepticism about racial justice.

There is a cultural problem within the black student community and there is a culture problem within the white teacher community. There are those who expect respect simply on the basis of rank and those who work hard to learn to manage sensitive issues.

Psychobabble? Really? There are no books on being a successful executive in the business world? There are no studies on worker satisfaction? There are no experiments with horizontal organization vs. vertical, hierarchical organization? There was never a book for the business world titled "How to Win Friends and Influence People?"

A teacher trained with good management skills and people skills won't encounter much disrespect or disruption, and will know how to deal with it smoothly.

In the world of Black and White everything is not so black and white. Not so hunky dory. Populations are not so cleanly cut into their expected roles as you might wish.

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

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ORIGINAL: kdsub

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Shouldn't causation be treated, rather than simply treating correlation?

I would think in the case of schools that is beyond their control. Society is who must change the cause...schools must deal with reality...which are so called correlated facts.
One of the big problems we have with schools in America is the perception that school policies are the cause of racial problems rather than the attempt to deal with them... Otherwise we should not expect schools to reflect anything different than what exists in society.
Butch

I agree society must change the cause. But, we need to find the cause. If the results of the study have been caused by racism (which I've not stated anything less than us not having enough information to determine the cause), then, by all means, make the necessary changes. But, before you blame racism for the results, you should be able to prove it was racism. Saying that blacks were reprimanded more isn't enough. It could be that blacks committed more unacceptable actions. It would be racism if the ratio of blacks being reprimanded for an action was higher than the ratio of other races being reprimanded for the same action. And, we don't know that's the case. That's where the "more information is needed before we blame racism" comes in.

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Public schools came into their own in the 1930s as a way to turn out proper factory workers who arrive at a set time, do what they are told, how they are told, and don't question instructions. Since our society no longer needs automaton factory workers, robots do it better, is it surprising that the automaton factories that are our schools are seen as failing and need to be changed?

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ORIGINAL: MercTech

I'm reminded of what an anthropologist friend told me quite a while back (College professor from whom I rented living space)..

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Public schools came into their own in the 1930s as a way to turn out proper factory workers who arrive at a set time, do what they are told, how they are told, and don't question instructions. Since our society no longer needs automaton factory workers, robots do it better, is it surprising that the automaton factories that are our schools are seen as failing and need to be changed?

Let's see, that was in 1976.

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ORIGINAL: Ladytisha

What you are stating is in fact happening in Central Texas. What you mentioned about being referred to law enforcement is the school to prison pipeline very real and happening everyday to youth. In some cases how cities are set up to keep one ethnicity on one part of town and the others on a certain part of town. Depending what side of town your on determines your resources etc. sad but true.

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ORIGINAL: MercTech

And is the school to prison dynamic a reflection of deterioration of schools, deterioration of society, or increased criminalization of the populace?