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RE: Should books be subject to age restrictions? - 3/27/2014 12:22:16 PM   
jlf1961


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AthenaSurrenders

To all of it.

I'd love to see you cite those cases. But I suspect even if you can, they will be relatively sensational news stories with only half of the information shared.

Getting reported to, or even investigated by CPS or Social Services or the local equivalent does NOT mean something is child abuse. It means a concern has been raised. Also 'making kids do chores' might be innocent 99% of the time, but there's always going to be a few nutcases who do work their kids to the point of abuse. Likewise providing healthy food and banning junk food is going to be good parenting most of the time, but it doesn't mean that some individuals can't take it to the point of abuse through force feeding or starving their kids. You're likely to hear 'parents investigated for making kids do chores!!!1!' but you're not likely to hear the full story - that the chores were wildly inappropriate, or enforced by beatings, or at the expense of their education OR that the CPS investigated and found out it was all entirely innocent and appropriate.

This whole 'parents aren't allowed to raise their kids properly' stuff is just an excuse for people who are too lazy or ignorant to figure out how to parent without using violence as a deterrent and feel hard done to that society no longer finds that appropriate.

Not to mention none of what you listed impacts on parents making informed choices with or for their children about reading materials.


While I agree with what you are saying, and yes, these incidents are the extreme.

As for parents setting restrictions on reading material or any form of entertainment media, I feel that they should have the final say.

That being said, most parents make choices on what their children read or watch based on religious reasons. Their choices have nothing to do with age.

Growing up, some well meaning individuals in my school district raised seven kinds of hell over the books Jaws, Catcher in the Rye, Sister Carrie, and a few others were being read in English classes as well as being in the library.

They even tried to get some works of Shakespeare banned.

There were even a few old fashioned church sponsored book burnings.

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RE: Should books be subject to age restrictions? - 3/27/2014 12:23:05 PM   
Marc2b


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Age restrictions for books? Fuck no! I don't care what anyone says! I am not too old for Harry Potter!

Seriously, children are much more capable of handling "adult" themes and situations than we credit them for.
I would consider my youth to be much poorer had I not read 1984, Lord of the Flies, Brave New World, etc.



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RE: Should books be subject to age restrictions? - 3/27/2014 1:03:22 PM   
kalikshama


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I watched Madagascar recently and, while a movie for kids, there are lots of references for adults.

I read way above my age level and a lot of the stuff went right over my head until I had the experience to put it into context.

If I were going to censor 50 Shades, it would be due to the bad writing, not the content.

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RE: Should books be subject to age restrictions? - 3/27/2014 1:58:14 PM   
MalcolmNathaniel


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I am going to disagree with everyone: Yes. Books should be rated.

I have read so many banal books that should have been banned just so people don't lose brain cells by reading them. Some of them got published because the editor got stupid by reading them.

50 Shades of Grey is right at the top of that list.

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RE: Should books be subject to age restrictions? - 3/27/2014 4:29:32 PM   
MasterCaneman


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I agree with MN above. Since they can restrict films and video games (hah!), why not books? If anything, it might encourage the little stains to actually read something, rather than download a quick synopsis on it.

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RE: Should books be subject to age restrictions? - 3/27/2014 5:38:06 PM   
Missokyst


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Hmm.. I don't know.  Truthfully I was exposed to all kinds of books as a child.  I was reading James Bond when I was eight or so.  And though I had to cross reference many of the scenes with a dictionary, once done I got the idea very well.  I read O when I was about 10 I guess.  I saw bondage magazines and torture around the same time.  I can say that what I read and what I knew did change a fundamental part of my sexual psyche.  On the other hand it spurred my desire to research everything that caught my eye.  Not knowing exactly what those books meant until I researched, I learned the joy of discovery. 



quote:

ORIGINAL: amaidiamond


So, should books be regulated? How young is too young? If an young person should go to a store and wish to purchase a copy of 50 Shades etc is it appropriate to sell it to them?


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RE: Should books be subject to age restrictions? - 3/27/2014 5:41:47 PM   
FullCircle


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Book censorship sounds like a great idea, any volunteers for this mammoth task? How far back should we go, that D.H.Lawrence is a bit of a filthy git (I'm told).

I had to review a book in English literature at school once and I happened to pick 'The Fates' by Thomas Tessier. It was a random choice at the time but the in class discussion of it was a bit awkward due to its prolific sexual content. Point being there are more than only a handful of books produced each year and their content is not always easy to classify.


< Message edited by FullCircle -- 3/27/2014 5:48:28 PM >


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RE: Should books be subject to age restrictions? - 3/27/2014 6:13:12 PM   
ShaharThorne


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My parents never censored what I read...I was looking at Playboy, Penthouse and Hustler when I was 9. I studied Ted Bundy when I was 14. I read The Happy Hooker when I was 13. When the school tested me at 14 (I was having trouble in school and the school thought I had a LD) it shocked the system that I had the reading level of a junior in college. I just had to be taught in a different way.

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RE: Should books be subject to age restrictions? - 3/27/2014 6:22:14 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: amaidiamond

Hi everyone,

I was chatting about the infamous "50 Shades" the other day and into my head popped something I had not thought of before. We as a society have age restrictions on certain products, Films that show graphic scenes, Magazines with sexual pictures, websites with erotic written content etc etc.... but nothing in regards to books.

Now whatever your thoughts on 50 shades and books of its ilk, there is no denying that some of the content is very explicit. Graphic sex scenes, BDSM etc... and not just that book, other books containing murder, violence, child molestation etc. If these books were movies they would have an 18/R rating slapped on them fast as anything.

There is also the question of how much impact books, and the written word can shape a person. Using 50 Shades again as an example, the main male character is a rather disturbed individual with pretty major issues and yet millions of women are swooning over him and his written actions, could reading something like that book lead to for example a young person growing up to be a certain way under the belief it is how women/men want them to be)

So, should books be regulated? How young is too young? If an young person should go to a store and wish to purchase a copy of 50 Shades etc is it appropriate to sell it to them?

I am interested in everyone's opinion, I am not yet sure which side of the fence I stand on as I see both good and bad points to each option but it is something that has had me thinking.


Yes, but age shouldn't be the dividing line.

If they have the IQ of most Democrats, they would be required to read (currently it appears to be an option for most).

Republicans, would be required to read to Democrats 1 hour a week (to help get them started).

(Where's my fire suit?)

< Message edited by LookieNoNookie -- 3/27/2014 6:24:30 PM >

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RE: Should books be subject to age restrictions? - 3/27/2014 7:08:51 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

Republicans, would be required to read to Democrats 1 hour a week (to help get them started).

They could start with "The Pet Goat."

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RE: Should books be subject to age restrictions? - 3/27/2014 7:20:51 PM   
DesFIP


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Hell no.

At age 10 I had read through everything in the children's section. Going down to the adult's area of the library, I came across Lady Chatterley's Lover, remembering my mother discussing it, I attempted to check it out. The librarian refused and after argument, called my mother. Her response was that I could read anything I wanted. If I was old enough to understand it, then it wasn't above me. If I couldn't understand it, then it wouldn't harm me.

I have held to that while raising my kids.

In addition, if you watch the news with your parents, or read the paper then you've already been exposed to real life murder, rape, and every other kind of horrific act that humanity is capable of.

And whether the medium was books, tv or the paper, the appropriate thing is to explain it in terms that particular child can understand.

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RE: Should books be subject to age restrictions? - 3/28/2014 3:08:25 PM   
MercTech


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Books are already regulated in many states. Have you ever seen a "must be 21 to enter this section" sign in a bookstore or video store?

I've seen "must be over 18 to purchase" signs in front of the Playboy and Penthouse magazines in convenience markets.

But you can find better sex scenes in the science fiction section than most of the graphic stuff anyway. If your kid is reading everything John Ringo writes; they just might have their kink on.

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RE: Should books be subject to age restrictions? - 3/29/2014 8:56:50 AM   
njlauren


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: amaidiamond
So, should books be regulated? How young is too young? If an young person should go to a store and wish to purchase a copy of 50 Shades etc is it appropriate to sell it to them?


Books don't need age restrictions. Children need parents.




In the present incarnation of society, parents are not allowed to be parents because anything that is more extreme than a time out is considered child abuse, just like taking a picture of your infant in the bath tub without swim trunks is child porn.

Other things reported as child abuse:
Making children eat healthy meals and snacks.
Limiting tv or internet time.
Making the child do chores.
Tracking children's cell phone locations.


That isn't true, claims like this make my blood boil, because if these are real incidents, there is more to it than what is posted. All of those fall under the purview of parenting, and are not abuse. Could a kid claim abuse because of those? Of course. Would they be taken seriously? No. Some schmuck lawyer desperate for fame might actually try to take a case like this, but it doesn't make it real.

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RE: Should books be subject to age restrictions? - 3/29/2014 9:03:44 AM   
njlauren


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

quote:

ORIGINAL: amaidiamond

Hi everyone,

I was chatting about the infamous "50 Shades" the other day and into my head popped something I had not thought of before. We as a society have age restrictions on certain products, Films that show graphic scenes, Magazines with sexual pictures, websites with erotic written content etc etc.... but nothing in regards to books.

Now whatever your thoughts on 50 shades and books of its ilk, there is no denying that some of the content is very explicit. Graphic sex scenes, BDSM etc... and not just that book, other books containing murder, violence, child molestation etc. If these books were movies they would have an 18/R rating slapped on them fast as anything.

There is also the question of how much impact books, and the written word can shape a person. Using 50 Shades again as an example, the main male character is a rather disturbed individual with pretty major issues and yet millions of women are swooning over him and his written actions, could reading something like that book lead to for example a young person growing up to be a certain way under the belief it is how women/men want them to be)

So, should books be regulated? How young is too young? If an young person should go to a store and wish to purchase a copy of 50 Shades etc is it appropriate to sell it to them?

I am interested in everyone's opinion, I am not yet sure which side of the fence I stand on as I see both good and bad points to each option but it is something that has had me thinking.


Yes, but age shouldn't be the dividing line.

If they have the IQ of most Democrats, they would be required to read (currently it appears to be an option for most).

Republicans, would be required to read to Democrats 1 hour a week (to help get them started).

(Where's my fire suit?)


Given who the GOP is made of these days, I think it should be reversed, given the GOP is dominated by the Tea Party/educated elites nonsense (few people would call Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachmann, Ted Cruz or most of the GOP leadership as intellectual). The GOP in fact puts out tons of stuff how the Democrats are about the 'elites', how the GOP (joke on jokes) represents "real americans", what do you think that means? Take a look book banning put out by the American library association, and surprise surprise, it is most prevalent in the red states.

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RE: Should books be subject to age restrictions? - 3/29/2014 9:20:01 AM   
njlauren


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I think the answer is no, that like others, it should be up to the parents. Deciding what is appropriate to read is hard, and even well meaning people do the wrong thing. Look at attempts to ban reading "Huck Finn" and "Merchant of Venice" in schools, or on a more venal note, the religiously stupid trying to ban Harry Potter books because they promote 'satanism' *sigh*.

As an avid reader from a young age I would take books out of the library from the 'adult' section, and would run into librarians who would object (funny part is, usually it was some young twit who probably just graduated from school or something; the older women would see a kid eager to read and would be like 'its okay, the kid's mother is right there, if the kid wants to read them, let him". I didn't always understand what I read, I remember reading Kurt Vonnegut when I was 10 or 11, and not understanding large parts of it, and my parents would ask me "do you understand it" and my response would be "I don't understand all of it, but that's okay, I'll read it again and eventually I will". And yes, I think it needs to be up to parents to decide, though it is a burden because how many of those books have the parents read? The problem with labels is that is based on the person who rates them, and a born again Christian type is going to rate a book differently than an "Auntie Mame" would do it (I loved the scene in Auntie Mame where she tells the boy that when he hears a word he doesn't understand, to write it down, and at a party he comes back with this list of words that, well, even she has a hard time explaining:) and it may not tell them anything.

The thing about kids reading books is that as someone else said, likely if it is something way out there, they won't understand it, and if they do understand it and are troubled, they will ask. I can remember reading books that mentioned sex, and my mom simply saying something like 'that is what people do to show love' without explaining it, or would explain it in terms I could understand. I generally with our kid was of the school 'if he wants to read it, let him', but we were also careful. We didn't read the harry potter books with him until he was a bit older, because we knew he at an earlier age would not like some of the darker stuff, a year or two later, he was fine. In the end, I am of the opinion that reading a book, even one with 'adult themes', will do far more good for the kid than any perceived harm, either because they won't understand the books tough sections, or can process it in their own way or with the help of it. I know that kids reading books, especially those who are reading "adult books" at an early age, end up testing out on reading ability way up there, I was reading on a college level in 6th grade, and freshman year of high school was reading at grad school level *shrug*.

It should also give pause that things like censorship, or labels or ratings, often are more about controlling what kids think and people think, or the ability to think, than preventing harm. The Texas State School board GOP members wanted to ban any curricula focused around critical reasoning, arguing it was need to protect "long held beliefs"...much censorship is based around the same idea, and kids are often the battleground.

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RE: Should books be subject to age restrictions? - 3/29/2014 9:27:12 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman

I agree with MN above. Since they can restrict films and video games (hah!), why not books? If anything, it might encourage the little stains to actually read something, rather than download a quick synopsis on it.

A rating system has never worked for comics, why on earth would it work for a book that'll take longer than ten minutes to read?

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RE: Should books be subject to age restrictions? - 3/29/2014 9:36:21 AM   
Spiritedsub2


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-fr

I think books should be rated and shelved in a distinct way. I'm 55 now; when I was in 5th grade I stumbled cluelessly onto a snuff porn book wandering through a bookstore and bought the thing, probably lured by the cover. It wasn't a good thing to read and all these decades later I still remember it. Presumably if the book had been shelved in an area set aside for such someone would have noticed a little girl there and stopped me!

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RE: Should books be subject to age restrictions? - 3/29/2014 10:04:12 AM   
Moonhead


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Isn't that a problem with a book shop stacking stuff in an arbitrary way rather than a need for censorship, though?

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RE: Should books be subject to age restrictions? - 3/29/2014 10:28:45 AM   
Spiritedsub2


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Yes, I think you're right. In the very limited example I posted, I think there should have been both: non-arbitrary stacking and direct censorship (kicking me out).

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RE: Should books be subject to age restrictions? - 3/29/2014 10:47:21 AM   
kalikshama


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

Republicans, would be required to read to Democrats 1 hour a week (to help get them started).

They could start with "The Pet Goat."



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