RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent crime down sharply

RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent crime down sharply (Full Version)

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mnottertail -> RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent crime down sharply (4/8/2014 10:37:13 AM)
and in that quote, he says climate change, you say global warming. Those are not congruent statements.

Moderator3 -> RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent crime down sharply (4/8/2014 10:40:30 AM)
While weather is a part of the discussion and has been from page one, lets not make the topic global warming. Thank you!

joether -> RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent crime down sharply (4/8/2014 10:46:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD "Most of the gun violence in this city is kids with guns shooting at other kids with guns. " And your gun ban did so much good so I guess this gun hating is just crap. Yes, it is amazing. the same worthless scum that run the pot and coke up from Texas bring in cheap guns they buy on the way and sell right along with the drugs. Every time they bust a drug shipment they always find a bunch of guns too. Now the question is why are there gun dealers selling trunk loads of guns to the same people every few days and getting away with it? Left wing myth that defies reason. DC used that excuse so does Chicago. So why don't the places the guns come from have as high a crime rate? Is it some vile right wing conspiracy against progressive cities? Or is it because only the bad guys have guns? Or maybe the law there thinks like you and if you aren't bleeding it isn't self defense. Based on the rate of executions in Texas they do. They just spread it out more. So maybe you should stop the bullshit. Texas is exceptionally well armed and has a busy death chamber so guns do not work as deterrent. That is simple fact. No they don't. Crime always goes down when ccw laws are passed that is a simple fact. So your rebuttal is to deny reality. Prove it. Not with one or two flimsy studies either, BamaD. I'm talking 'Mountain Ranges' like with what is known about the Theory of Climate Change. Crime goes down when we hire more police officers. It goes down when people follow the laws of the land. It even goes down when the penalty is sufficiently strict to make someone think twice before doing it. For each of these, there exist mountain ranges of evidence. Ever wonder why voter fraud is so amazingly low as to not have any effect on any of the last four Presidential elections? The penalty in each state not to mention the federal level is pretty damn strict.

Phydeaux -> RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent crime down sharply (4/8/2014 10:50:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD "Most of the gun violence in this city is kids with guns shooting at other kids with guns. " And your gun ban did so much good so I guess this gun hating is just crap. Yes, it is amazing. the same worthless scum that run the pot and coke up from Texas bring in cheap guns they buy on the way and sell right along with the drugs. Every time they bust a drug shipment they always find a bunch of guns too. Now the question is why are there gun dealers selling trunk loads of guns to the same people every few days and getting away with it? Left wing myth that defies reason. DC used that excuse so does Chicago. So why don't the places the guns come from have as high a crime rate? Is it some vile right wing conspiracy against progressive cities? Or is it because only the bad guys have guns? Or maybe the law there thinks like you and if you aren't bleeding it isn't self defense. Based on the rate of executions in Texas they do. They just spread it out more. So maybe you should stop the bullshit. Texas is exceptionally well armed and has a busy death chamber so guns do not work as deterrent. That is simple fact. No they don't. Crime always goes down when ccw laws are passed that is a simple fact. So your rebuttal is to deny reality. Prove it. Not with one or two flimsy studies either, BamaD. I'm talking 'Mountain Ranges' like with what is known about the Theory of Climate Change. Crime goes down when we hire more police officers. It goes down when people follow the laws of the land. It even goes down when the penalty is sufficiently strict to make someone think twice before doing it. For each of these, there exist mountain ranges of evidence. Ever wonder why voter fraud is so amazingly low as to not have any effect on any of the last four Presidential elections? The penalty in each state not to mention the federal level is pretty damn strict. Well then, you should be able to use just about anything to prove it with the same level of proof of AGW. I'd suggest used toilet paper is the appropriate standard. Off the top of my head.. what was the result of the gun laws passed in england in 1906? Oh yeah. Gun violence went up. Since you are the one that wants to deprive others of their gun rights joether, I think its encumbant on you to prove your case. Provide the cases where gun cuntrol legislation decreased gun violence.

truckinslave -> RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent crime down sharply (4/8/2014 12:07:25 PM)
Edited/removed due to Mod comment above

MercTech -> RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent crime down sharply (4/8/2014 6:59:27 PM)
I think I'm seeing a logic disconnect in this thread. Numbers of concealed carry permits in no way equates to firearm ownership numbers. The Chicago ban on licensed firearm dealers being able to sell firearms and the ban on transfer between two individuals was struck down in the courts. http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2014-01-07/news/chi-citys-gun-ordinance-ruled-unconstitutional-by-federal-judge-20140106_1_gun-ordinance-gun-rights-advocates-gun-ranges Illinois requires a special ID card before one can legally own a firearm. It is the FOID card and not concealed carry permits that they have been flooded with. http://www.isp.state.il.us/foid/foidinfo.cfm Illinois concealed carry, a separate qualification: https://ccl4illinois.com/ccw/public/home.aspx

BamaD -> RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent crime down sharply (4/8/2014 11:23:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD "Most of the gun violence in this city is kids with guns shooting at other kids with guns. " And your gun ban did so much good so I guess this gun hating is just crap. Yes, it is amazing. the same worthless scum that run the pot and coke up from Texas bring in cheap guns they buy on the way and sell right along with the drugs. Every time they bust a drug shipment they always find a bunch of guns too. Now the question is why are there gun dealers selling trunk loads of guns to the same people every few days and getting away with it? Left wing myth that defies reason. DC used that excuse so does Chicago. So why don't the places the guns come from have as high a crime rate? Is it some vile right wing conspiracy against progressive cities? Or is it because only the bad guys have guns? Or maybe the law there thinks like you and if you aren't bleeding it isn't self defense. Based on the rate of executions in Texas they do. They just spread it out more. So maybe you should stop the bullshit. Texas is exceptionally well armed and has a busy death chamber so guns do not work as deterrent. That is simple fact. No they don't. Crime always goes down when ccw laws are passed that is a simple fact. So your rebuttal is to deny reality. Prove it. Not with one or two flimsy studies either, BamaD. I'm talking 'Mountain Ranges' like with what is known about the Theory of Climate Change. Crime goes down when we hire more police officers. It goes down when people follow the laws of the land. It even goes down when the penalty is sufficiently strict to make someone think twice before doing it. For each of these, there exist mountain ranges of evidence. Ever wonder why voter fraud is so amazingly low as to not have any effect on any of the last four Presidential elections? The penalty in each state not to mention the federal level is pretty damn strict. The mayor of Chicago admitted that the city had the highest murder rate in the country is that good enough for you? Of course it will not because reality doesn't enter into your thought.

joether -> RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent crime down sharply (4/9/2014 12:32:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD "Most of the gun violence in this city is kids with guns shooting at other kids with guns. " And your gun ban did so much good so I guess this gun hating is just crap. Yes, it is amazing. the same worthless scum that run the pot and coke up from Texas bring in cheap guns they buy on the way and sell right along with the drugs. Every time they bust a drug shipment they always find a bunch of guns too. Now the question is why are there gun dealers selling trunk loads of guns to the same people every few days and getting away with it? Left wing myth that defies reason. DC used that excuse so does Chicago. So why don't the places the guns come from have as high a crime rate? Is it some vile right wing conspiracy against progressive cities? Or is it because only the bad guys have guns? Or maybe the law there thinks like you and if you aren't bleeding it isn't self defense. Based on the rate of executions in Texas they do. They just spread it out more. So maybe you should stop the bullshit. Texas is exceptionally well armed and has a busy death chamber so guns do not work as deterrent. That is simple fact. No they don't. Crime always goes down when ccw laws are passed that is a simple fact. So your rebuttal is to deny reality. Prove it. Not with one or two flimsy studies either, BamaD. I'm talking 'Mountain Ranges' like with what is known about the Theory of Climate Change. Crime goes down when we hire more police officers. It goes down when people follow the laws of the land. It even goes down when the penalty is sufficiently strict to make someone think twice before doing it. For each of these, there exist mountain ranges of evidence. Ever wonder why voter fraud is so amazingly low as to not have any effect on any of the last four Presidential elections? The penalty in each state not to mention the federal level is pretty damn strict. The mayor of Chicago admitted that the city had the highest murder rate in the country is that good enough for you? Of course it will not because reality doesn't enter into your thought. All I am asking for is....EVIDENCE...that shows there is a direct link between CCW and the homicide rate being diminished as a result. And you cant even produce one ounce. Yet, you slam the Theory of Climate Change which has about 7,400+ tons of material saying 'its all untrue'. Is this a hard concept for you to understand? This very distinctive detachment from reality? On concept 'A' there's a huge amount of evidence, but your fully against it. On concept 'B' there is no evidence, but you accept it without question. And your saying I don't live in reality given this about yourself? HA! If the Mayor of Chicago stated he likes kittens, you would go get 500? Give that mayor 300 more police officers, and he'll see the crime rate reduced (not just with homicides). This is page 6 or 7 now. All your doing is dodging a fair request of information. By the sixth page in the typical Theory of Climate Change thread, there would be links with copy/paste information from a hundred sources. Where are all the hundreds of solid, well vetted, studied sources that show the decrease in Chicago's homicide rate is directly related to CCW?

Phydeaux -> RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent crime down sharply (4/9/2014 1:39:23 AM)
Funny. I had an accident the other day. I was rear ended by a truck. The lack of a chicago study doesn't make it any less true. Curious. How many quarters does violence have to decrease before you will attribute it to CCW? Six? Or, is it as I suspect that no number would ever satisfy you?

DomKen -> RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent crime down sharply (4/9/2014 3:06:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux Funny. I had an accident the other day. I was rear ended by a truck. The lack of a chicago study doesn't make it any less true. Curious. How many quarters does violence have to decrease before you will attribute it to CCW? Six? Or, is it as I suspect that no number would ever satisfy you? Get this through your head, CCW permits started being issued here in Feb. 2014. Crime rates have been going down for the past 2 years at least. Were criminals afraid of the concealed guns people would be carrying 2 years in the future? long before it was evfen known there would be such?

SadistDave -> RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent crime down sharply (4/9/2014 3:31:31 AM)
Apparently, the city of Chicago has been downgrading crime stats for years. I suppose there is the fact that the Chicago PD is as corrupt as the rest of the city's government to consider. No big surprise there. That might account for this alleged decline in criminal activity DomKen is talking about... -SD-

BamaD -> RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent crime down sharply (4/9/2014 8:33:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD "Most of the gun violence in this city is kids with guns shooting at other kids with guns. " And your gun ban did so much good so I guess this gun hating is just crap. Yes, it is amazing. the same worthless scum that run the pot and coke up from Texas bring in cheap guns they buy on the way and sell right along with the drugs. Every time they bust a drug shipment they always find a bunch of guns too. Now the question is why are there gun dealers selling trunk loads of guns to the same people every few days and getting away with it? Left wing myth that defies reason. DC used that excuse so does Chicago. So why don't the places the guns come from have as high a crime rate? Is it some vile right wing conspiracy against progressive cities? Or is it because only the bad guys have guns? Or maybe the law there thinks like you and if you aren't bleeding it isn't self defense. Based on the rate of executions in Texas they do. They just spread it out more. So maybe you should stop the bullshit. Texas is exceptionally well armed and has a busy death chamber so guns do not work as deterrent. That is simple fact. No they don't. Crime always goes down when ccw laws are passed that is a simple fact. So your rebuttal is to deny reality. Prove it. Not with one or two flimsy studies either, BamaD. I'm talking 'Mountain Ranges' like with what is known about the Theory of Climate Change. Crime goes down when we hire more police officers. It goes down when people follow the laws of the land. It even goes down when the penalty is sufficiently strict to make someone think twice before doing it. For each of these, there exist mountain ranges of evidence. Ever wonder why voter fraud is so amazingly low as to not have any effect on any of the last four Presidential elections? The penalty in each state not to mention the federal level is pretty damn strict. I have never said that CCW is the only thing that ever causes crime to go down. The other things you mentioned are also factors. The only study that did not support my assertion was put out by the Brady bunch and they refused to tell what sources they used or the methodology they used, so there is a mountain of evidence. Haven't had the time yet to write a fresh book on the subject which is what you demand.

joether -> RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent crime down sharply (4/9/2014 8:35:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux Funny. I had an accident the other day. I was rear ended by a truck. The lack of a chicago study doesn't make it any less true. The number of studies using actual vehicles is enormous. They study different types of collisions, roll-overs, and even fires. Why do they do this? To find better ways to make those vehicles safer during an accident. Why are the parts made more durable and resistant to wear and tear? To help prevent accidents! How about the roads? They aren't made like they used to be? We have done many studies on roadways, their construction, and lay out. Even performed studies on signals, signs, and other items that could externally distract a driver from critical information. And likewise, studies have been performed to understand how internal distractions can cause accidents. On top of all that, they have done studies on the very people doing the driving. How do you think we know so much about the hazards of driving drunk? Many of these studies were performed at the federal level. But some states have performed their own studies. And many research and university work has been performed in these studies. Insurance companies have performed studies in addition to the other studies. So there is quite a vast amount of studying on automobiles and the prevention of accidents. And then we have BamaD's argument that has not one study or actual research into it that states, CCW is the sole and primary reason why homicides in the city have decreased. The City of Chicago does not have to perform this study, since they are not the ones stating this silly notion! quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux Curious. How many quarters does violence have to decrease before you will attribute it to CCW? Six? Or, is it as I suspect that no number would ever satisfy you? Where ever do you come up with this bat-shit crazy bullshit, anyways? Quarters? This isn't an arcade game from the 80's we are talking about. I'm going to state it again, in the simplest words. Since you can not seem to understand the more complicated ones.... BamaD says 'A' is due primarily to 'B'. So I want him to show one or more, solid, well understood, and vetted studies that link 'B' to 'A'. In this cane, that CCW is the direct and most correct reason why homicides in the City of Chicago have decreased. I don't know why this is complicated for you to understand. I seriously do not...

BamaD -> RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent crime down sharply (4/9/2014 8:38:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD "Most of the gun violence in this city is kids with guns shooting at other kids with guns. " And your gun ban did so much good so I guess this gun hating is just crap. Yes, it is amazing. the same worthless scum that run the pot and coke up from Texas bring in cheap guns they buy on the way and sell right along with the drugs. Every time they bust a drug shipment they always find a bunch of guns too. Now the question is why are there gun dealers selling trunk loads of guns to the same people every few days and getting away with it? Left wing myth that defies reason. DC used that excuse so does Chicago. So why don't the places the guns come from have as high a crime rate? Is it some vile right wing conspiracy against progressive cities? Or is it because only the bad guys have guns? Or maybe the law there thinks like you and if you aren't bleeding it isn't self defense. Based on the rate of executions in Texas they do. They just spread it out more. So maybe you should stop the bullshit. Texas is exceptionally well armed and has a busy death chamber so guns do not work as deterrent. That is simple fact. No they don't. Crime always goes down when ccw laws are passed that is a simple fact. So your rebuttal is to deny reality. Prove it. Not with one or two flimsy studies either, BamaD. I'm talking 'Mountain Ranges' like with what is known about the Theory of Climate Change. Crime goes down when we hire more police officers. It goes down when people follow the laws of the land. It even goes down when the penalty is sufficiently strict to make someone think twice before doing it. For each of these, there exist mountain ranges of evidence. Ever wonder why voter fraud is so amazingly low as to not have any effect on any of the last four Presidential elections? The penalty in each state not to mention the federal level is pretty damn strict. The mayor of Chicago admitted that the city had the highest murder rate in the country is that good enough for you? Of course it will not because reality doesn't enter into your thought. All I am asking for is....EVIDENCE...that shows there is a direct link between CCW and the homicide rate being diminished as a result. And you cant even produce one ounce. Yet, you slam the Theory of Climate Change which has about 7,400+ tons of material saying 'its all untrue'. Is this a hard concept for you to understand? This very distinctive detachment from reality? On concept 'A' there's a huge amount of evidence, but your fully against it. On concept 'B' there is no evidence, but you accept it without question. And your saying I don't live in reality given this about yourself? HA! If the Mayor of Chicago stated he likes kittens, you would go get 500? Give that mayor 300 more police officers, and he'll see the crime rate reduced (not just with homicides). This is page 6 or 7 now. All your doing is dodging a fair request of information. By the sixth page in the typical Theory of Climate Change thread, there would be links with copy/paste information from a hundred sources. Where are all the hundreds of solid, well vetted, studied sources that show the decrease in Chicago's homicide rate is directly related to CCW? I did not slam the climate theory I just pointed out that cold winters do not explain crime drops in the summer. I have provided lots of evidence that crime drops when CCW is passed as have others but your "wisdom" dismisses 20 different studies, several of which started out to prove how bad they are, which ended up showing that they help.

Phydeaux -> RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent crime down sharply (4/9/2014 8:53:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux Funny. I had an accident the other day. I was rear ended by a truck. The lack of a chicago study doesn't make it any less true. Curious. How many quarters does violence have to decrease before you will attribute it to CCW? Six? Or, is it as I suspect that no number would ever satisfy you? Get this through your head, CCW permits started being issued here in Feb. 2014. Crime rates have been going down for the past 2 years at least. Were criminals afraid of the concealed guns people would be carrying 2 years in the future? long before it was evfen known there would be such? Get it through your head. Expectations of a law ramp up before implimentation. For example: healthcare, where employers shed hundreds of thousands of full time jobs in expectation PRIOR to implimentation.

joether -> RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent crime down sharply (4/9/2014 8:55:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD "Most of the gun violence in this city is kids with guns shooting at other kids with guns. " And your gun ban did so much good so I guess this gun hating is just crap. Yes, it is amazing. the same worthless scum that run the pot and coke up from Texas bring in cheap guns they buy on the way and sell right along with the drugs. Every time they bust a drug shipment they always find a bunch of guns too. Now the question is why are there gun dealers selling trunk loads of guns to the same people every few days and getting away with it? Left wing myth that defies reason. DC used that excuse so does Chicago. So why don't the places the guns come from have as high a crime rate? Is it some vile right wing conspiracy against progressive cities? Or is it because only the bad guys have guns? Or maybe the law there thinks like you and if you aren't bleeding it isn't self defense. Based on the rate of executions in Texas they do. They just spread it out more. So maybe you should stop the bullshit. Texas is exceptionally well armed and has a busy death chamber so guns do not work as deterrent. That is simple fact. No they don't. Crime always goes down when ccw laws are passed that is a simple fact. So your rebuttal is to deny reality. Prove it. Not with one or two flimsy studies either, BamaD. I'm talking 'Mountain Ranges' like with what is known about the Theory of Climate Change. Crime goes down when we hire more police officers. It goes down when people follow the laws of the land. It even goes down when the penalty is sufficiently strict to make someone think twice before doing it. For each of these, there exist mountain ranges of evidence. Ever wonder why voter fraud is so amazingly low as to not have any effect on any of the last four Presidential elections? The penalty in each state not to mention the federal level is pretty damn strict. I have never said that CCW is the only thing that ever causes crime to go down. The other things you mentioned are also factors. The only study that did not support my assertion was put out by the Brady bunch and they refused to tell what sources they used or the methodology they used, so there is a mountain of evidence. Haven't had the time yet to write a fresh book on the subject which is what you demand. I'm going to highlight it for you, BamaD. I'll even be a good sport and repost the exact language below: "Crime always goes down when ccw laws are passed that is a simple fact." You said this, BamaD. And I asked for a fair amount of evidence that supports the notion. An I wanted it specifically from the City of Chicago and not some other far-flung place, since this city has its own characteristics that make it unique to other locations. I inserted what I was looking for in a reply: "mountain ranges" like that exist with the Theory of Climate Change. Why this? Because you are against the Theory of Climate Change with all its evidence, yet accept, without one scientific study, that CCW have made the City of Chicago a much safer place. Your welcome to your belief, if you admit its just a belief. But when you pass belief off as fact, its fair to ask for you to give the burden of evidence. I could be persuaded that CCW might have a positive effect in the City of Chicago. I'm telling you, to reach that point, requires something more sustainable and verifiable then a belief. Unlike your stance with the Theory of Climate Change, I am not ruling out that your belief could be true. Its that given the evidence so far, it doesn't seem to show a direct link to what your saying.

Phydeaux -> RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent crime down sharply (4/9/2014 8:57:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether And then we have BamaD's argument that has not one study or actual research into it And then we have your posts. Factually untrue. Which is repetitively true of you. You lie, mr. expert on obamacare. Lie as in, I gave you one such study. Lie as in, you assert as fact things you know are not true. Such as this. We've had this discussion multiple times, there are multiple studies on the effects of gun restrictions on violence. They've been posted. And it is quite easy to google it and find. So you cannot be unaware that your statement is false.

BamaD -> RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent crime down sharply (4/9/2014 9:18:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD "Most of the gun violence in this city is kids with guns shooting at other kids with guns. " And your gun ban did so much good so I guess this gun hating is just crap. Yes, it is amazing. the same worthless scum that run the pot and coke up from Texas bring in cheap guns they buy on the way and sell right along with the drugs. Every time they bust a drug shipment they always find a bunch of guns too. Now the question is why are there gun dealers selling trunk loads of guns to the same people every few days and getting away with it? Left wing myth that defies reason. DC used that excuse so does Chicago. So why don't the places the guns come from have as high a crime rate? Is it some vile right wing conspiracy against progressive cities? Or is it because only the bad guys have guns? Or maybe the law there thinks like you and if you aren't bleeding it isn't self defense. Based on the rate of executions in Texas they do. They just spread it out more. So maybe you should stop the bullshit. Texas is exceptionally well armed and has a busy death chamber so guns do not work as deterrent. That is simple fact. No they don't. Crime always goes down when ccw laws are passed that is a simple fact. So your rebuttal is to deny reality. Prove it. Not with one or two flimsy studies either, BamaD. I'm talking 'Mountain Ranges' like with what is known about the Theory of Climate Change. Crime goes down when we hire more police officers. It goes down when people follow the laws of the land. It even goes down when the penalty is sufficiently strict to make someone think twice before doing it. For each of these, there exist mountain ranges of evidence. Ever wonder why voter fraud is so amazingly low as to not have any effect on any of the last four Presidential elections? The penalty in each state not to mention the federal level is pretty damn strict. I have never said that CCW is the only thing that ever causes crime to go down. The other things you mentioned are also factors. The only study that did not support my assertion was put out by the Brady bunch and they refused to tell what sources they used or the methodology they used, so there is a mountain of evidence. Haven't had the time yet to write a fresh book on the subject which is what you demand. I'm going to highlight it for you, BamaD. I'll even be a good sport and repost the exact language below: "Crime always goes down when ccw laws are passed that is a simple fact." You said this, BamaD. And I asked for a fair amount of evidence that supports the notion. An I wanted it specifically from the City of Chicago and not some other far-flung place, since this city has its own characteristics that make it unique to other locations. I inserted what I was looking for in a reply: "mountain ranges" like that exist with the Theory of Climate Change. Why this? Because you are against the Theory of Climate Change with all its evidence, yet accept, without one scientific study, that CCW have made the City of Chicago a much safer place. Your welcome to your belief, if you admit its just a belief. But when you pass belief off as fact, its fair to ask for you to give the burden of evidence. I could be persuaded that CCW might have a positive effect in the City of Chicago. I'm telling you, to reach that point, requires something more sustainable and verifiable then a belief. Unlike your stance with the Theory of Climate Change, I am not ruling out that your belief could be true. Its that given the evidence so far, it doesn't seem to show a direct link to what your saying. Before continuing your silly rant you should read post number two.

BamaD -> RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent crime down sharply (4/9/2014 9:20:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux quote: ORIGINAL: joether And then we have BamaD's argument that has not one study or actual research into it And then we have your posts. Factually untrue. Which is repetitively true of you. You lie, mr. expert on obamacare. Lie as in, I gave you one such study. Lie as in, you assert as fact things you know are not true. Such as this. We've had this discussion multiple times, there are multiple studies on the effects of gun restrictions on violence. They've been posted. And it is quite easy to google it and find. So you cannot be unaware that your statement is false. And there has not been time for a Chicago specific study.

DomKen -> RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent crime down sharply (4/9/2014 10:06:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux Funny. I had an accident the other day. I was rear ended by a truck. The lack of a chicago study doesn't make it any less true. Curious. How many quarters does violence have to decrease before you will attribute it to CCW? Six? Or, is it as I suspect that no number would ever satisfy you? Get this through your head, CCW permits started being issued here in Feb. 2014. Crime rates have been going down for the past 2 years at least. Were criminals afraid of the concealed guns people would be carrying 2 years in the future? long before it was evfen known there would be such? Get it through your head. Expectations of a law ramp up before implimentation. Precisely how could anyone have expected implementation of a CCW law two years ago when the ruling only occurred last year?

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