RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent crime down sharply

RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent crime down sharply (Full Version)

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Phydeaux -> RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent crime down sharply (4/7/2014 4:42:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux Another liberal misconception shredded by its encounter with reality. That many liberals are gunowners shreds this moronic encounter with reality. How. Love to hear this one. Ever heard of Hunter S Thompson, the noted lefty journalist and enthusiastic gun nut? Uh - wrong thread. The question on the table is How does the presence of liberal gunowners contest that the liberal belief that increased gun prohibitions decreases gun violence is shredded by studies like these that show violence decreases when gun prohibitions are repealed? Nope, you made some bullshit point about there being no tooled up liberals Uh. No I didn't. Ever.

subrob1967 -> RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent crime down sharply (4/7/2014 4:51:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD But the Chicago winter doesn't explain away the crime drop in the summer now does it? Neither does the fact that there weren't any CCW holders in Illinois last summer either, now does it? I don't understand our disagreement, the OP posted Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent crime down sharply. I mentioned that it wasn't due to Illinois CCW, what am I missing?

BamaD -> RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent crime down sharply (4/7/2014 4:51:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux Another liberal misconception shredded by its encounter with reality. That many liberals are gunowners shreds this moronic encounter with reality. How. Love to hear this one. Ever heard of Hunter S Thompson, the noted lefty journalist and enthusiastic gun nut? Uh - wrong thread. The question on the table is How does the presence of liberal gunowners contest that the liberal belief that increased gun prohibitions decreases gun violence is shredded by studies like these that show violence decreases when gun prohibitions are repealed? Nope, you made some bullshit point about there being no tooled up liberals Uh. No I didn't. Ever. Two days ago was the anniversary of the Carl Rowan trial. A strong supporter of gun control he shot a unarmed kid in his back yard with an illegal gun. His defense? Until the country adopted the laws he thought we should have he wasn't obligated to follow the gun laws we had.

ForgetToRemember -> RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent crime down sharply (4/7/2014 4:52:45 PM)
[/quote] But the Chicago winter doesn't explain away the crime drop in the summer now does it? [/quote] No, but neither does the CCW, which is what we have been trying to say. Basically, you are drawing a false conclusion from the data (well, I should say that article was, and in turn convinced people who are leaning toward their point of view to start with - aka biased) as we mentioned before: State Police have only been sending out approved permits since Feb 28. About 5,000 permits out of 50,000 applications so far. The Illinois Supreme Court affirmed a citizens right to carry last year and gave the state until Jan 1, 2014 to write and enact a concealed carry law.

BamaD -> RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent crime down sharply (4/7/2014 4:54:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ForgetToRemember But the Chicago winter doesn't explain away the crime drop in the summer now does it? No, but neither does the CCW, which is what we have been trying to say. Basically, you are drawing a false conclusion from the data (well, I should say that article was, and in turn convinced people who are leaning toward their point of view to start with - aka biased) as we mentioned before: State Police have only been sending out approved permits since Feb 28. About 5,000 permits out of 50,000 applications so far. The Illinois Supreme Court affirmed a citizens right to carry last year and gave the state until Jan 1, 2014 to write and enact a concealed carry law. You didn't read my first post.

Phydeaux -> RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent crime down sharply (4/7/2014 5:10:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: ForgetToRemember But the Chicago winter doesn't explain away the crime drop in the summer now does it? No, but neither does the CCW, which is what we have been trying to say. Basically, you are drawing a false conclusion from the data (well, I should say that article was, and in turn convinced people who are leaning toward their point of view to start with - aka biased) as we mentioned before: State Police have only been sending out approved permits since Feb 28. About 5,000 permits out of 50,000 applications so far. The Illinois Supreme Court affirmed a citizens right to carry last year and gave the state until Jan 1, 2014 to write and enact a concealed carry law. You didn't read my first post. Or my reply to this line of questioning, either

BamaD -> RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent crime down sharply (4/7/2014 5:38:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: ForgetToRemember But the Chicago winter doesn't explain away the crime drop in the summer now does it? No, but neither does the CCW, which is what we have been trying to say. Basically, you are drawing a false conclusion from the data (well, I should say that article was, and in turn convinced people who are leaning toward their point of view to start with - aka biased) as we mentioned before: State Police have only been sending out approved permits since Feb 28. About 5,000 permits out of 50,000 applications so far. The Illinois Supreme Court affirmed a citizens right to carry last year and gave the state until Jan 1, 2014 to write and enact a concealed carry law. You didn't read my first post. Or my reply to this line of questioning, either My first post Post # 2 "Although the effect the overturning the gun ban could only have had a measurable effect so soon would be because of the criminal element's fear that victims could be armed. I doubt there has been a major influx of legal guns in Chicago." See I clearly stated that there couldn't be enough legal guns in circulation to have an effect How can so many people fail to comprehend that this is what I said

Phydeaux -> RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent crime down sharply (4/7/2014 5:43:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: ForgetToRemember But the Chicago winter doesn't explain away the crime drop in the summer now does it? No, but neither does the CCW, which is what we have been trying to say. Basically, you are drawing a false conclusion from the data (well, I should say that article was, and in turn convinced people who are leaning toward their point of view to start with - aka biased) as we mentioned before: State Police have only been sending out approved permits since Feb 28. About 5,000 permits out of 50,000 applications so far. The Illinois Supreme Court affirmed a citizens right to carry last year and gave the state until Jan 1, 2014 to write and enact a concealed carry law. You didn't read my first post. Or my reply to this line of questioning, either My first post Post # 2 "Although the effect the overturning the gun ban could only have had a measurable effect so soon would be because of the criminal element's fear that victims could be armed. I doubt there has been a major influx of legal guns in Chicago." See I clearly stated that there couldn't be enough legal guns in circulation to have an effect How can so many people fail to comprehend that this is what I said We agree. The number of guns permits probably isn't the cause. It could be: a). Permit holders carrying more. b). Criminals having more fear because of Zimmerman - and CCW now legal. c). Existing CCW permit holders feeling more emboldened to intervene in crimes.

DomKen -> RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent crime down sharply (4/7/2014 5:43:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: altoonamaster i cant rob or rape anybody its to cold He said it had dropped for 6 straight quarters, I don't think it was snowing last summer. They didn't start issuing permits until February of this year, so the point about last summer is moot. First Illinois CCW permits issued. Now this is not to say that the McDonald SC decision didn't have anything to do with the crime rate, after all the SC basically bitch slapped Daley and allowed the citizens of Chicago to purchase firearms to protect their homes. But this and the Heller decision wouldn't have affected street crime at all. As to knowing about Chicago's winter, yes I travel up there frequently, and still have family in Chicago. But the Chicago winter doesn't explain away the crime drop in the summer now does it? Neither does CCW permits that just started getting issued in feb. either!

BamaD -> RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent crime down sharply (4/7/2014 5:46:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: altoonamaster i cant rob or rape anybody its to cold He said it had dropped for 6 straight quarters, I don't think it was snowing last summer. They didn't start issuing permits until February of this year, so the point about last summer is moot. First Illinois CCW permits issued. Now this is not to say that the McDonald SC decision didn't have anything to do with the crime rate, after all the SC basically bitch slapped Daley and allowed the citizens of Chicago to purchase firearms to protect their homes. But this and the Heller decision wouldn't have affected street crime at all. As to knowing about Chicago's winter, yes I travel up there frequently, and still have family in Chicago. But the Chicago winter doesn't explain away the crime drop in the summer now does it? Neither does CCW permits that just started getting issued in feb. either! How sad that you didn't read the preceding post where I reprinted post number 2 where I discounted an influx of firearms.

DomKen -> RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent crime down sharply (4/7/2014 6:00:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: altoonamaster i cant rob or rape anybody its to cold He said it had dropped for 6 straight quarters, I don't think it was snowing last summer. They didn't start issuing permits until February of this year, so the point about last summer is moot. First Illinois CCW permits issued. Now this is not to say that the McDonald SC decision didn't have anything to do with the crime rate, after all the SC basically bitch slapped Daley and allowed the citizens of Chicago to purchase firearms to protect their homes. But this and the Heller decision wouldn't have affected street crime at all. As to knowing about Chicago's winter, yes I travel up there frequently, and still have family in Chicago. But the Chicago winter doesn't explain away the crime drop in the summer now does it? Neither does CCW permits that just started getting issued in feb. either! How sad that you didn't read the preceding post where I reprinted post number 2 where I discounted an influx of firearms. In reality we changed Police Chiefs and he changed the way the police went after the gangs and it seems to be working. This gun worshipping nonsense is crap. Most of the gun violence in this city is kids with guns shooting at other kids with guns.

BamaD -> RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent crime down sharply (4/7/2014 6:24:27 PM)
"Most of the gun violence in this city is kids with guns shooting at other kids with guns. " And your gun ban did so much good so I guess this gun hating is just crap.

Aynne88 -> RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent crime down sharply (4/7/2014 8:03:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux Another liberal misconception shredded by its encounter with reality. That many liberals are gunowners shreds this moronic encounter with reality. This. Liberal feminist with an arsenal. I'm from Maine it's how we roll..seriously. Generalizations suck.

DomKen -> RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent crime down sharply (4/7/2014 8:15:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD "Most of the gun violence in this city is kids with guns shooting at other kids with guns. " And your gun ban did so much good so I guess this gun hating is just crap. Yes, it is amazing. the same worthless scum that run the pot and coke up from Texas bring in cheap guns they buy on the way and sell right along with the drugs. Every time they bust a drug shipment they always find a bunch of guns too. Now the question is why are there gun dealers selling trunk loads of guns to the same people every few days and getting away with it?

BamaD -> RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent crime down sharply (4/7/2014 8:18:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: altoonamaster simply put if the bad guy knows your packing he's running And if the bad guy thinks he's better than you?? Also, if you are concealed carry, he ain't gonna know and probably confront you anyway. Someone is going to get seriously injured or dead. The bad guy always thinks he is better than you.

BamaD -> RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent crime down sharply (4/7/2014 8:19:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD "Most of the gun violence in this city is kids with guns shooting at other kids with guns. " And your gun ban did so much good so I guess this gun hating is just crap. Yes, it is amazing. the same worthless scum that run the pot and coke up from Texas bring in cheap guns they buy on the way and sell right along with the drugs. Every time they bust a drug shipment they always find a bunch of guns too. Now the question is why are there gun dealers selling trunk loads of guns to the same people every few days and getting away with it? Left wing myth that defies reason. DC used that excuse so does Chicago. So why don't the places the guns come from have as high a crime rate? Is it some vile right wing conspiracy against progressive cities? Or is it because only the bad guys have guns? Or maybe the law there thinks like you and if you aren't bleeding it isn't self defense.

truckinslave -> RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent crime down sharply (4/7/2014 8:51:04 PM)
quote: It has been snowing for 6 quarters? Thaaaats riiiight!! And, it didn't snow in Chicago for the previous 8 years

truckinslave -> RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent crime down sharply (4/7/2014 8:55:40 PM)
quote: maybe getting robbed isn't worth taking a life. Well, maybe it's not. In the CCW courses I taught I stressed that I personally would never shoot someone for money. If he wants the wallet and that's as far as it looks like it's going, fine; he gets the wallet. If it seems he wants more than that, he's going to get me trying to take my best shot quote: they're stealing from you, but if you think killing someone is justified based on that then you have a twisted sense of morality. I agree. I will not hire out to kill someone for $5,000; why would I kill them for the $50 in my wallet? Why do you think that has anything much to do with getting a concealed weapons permit?

dcnovice -> RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent crime down sharply (4/7/2014 8:59:49 PM)
quote: Generalizations suck. Don't you mean most generalizations suck? [;)]

BamaD -> RE: Concealed Carry bans overturned in Chicago, Violent crime down sharply (4/7/2014 9:01:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: truckinslave quote: maybe getting robbed isn't worth taking a life. Well, maybe it's not. In the CCW courses I taught I stressed that I personally would never shoot someone for money. If he wants the wallet and that's as far as it looks like it's going, fine; he gets the wallet. If it seems he wants more than that, he's going to get me trying to take my best shot Since all my confrontations but one was on my property it makes a difference. They start something on my property it is their problem. That being said I have consistently sent them packing. And my guns have allowed me to avoid violence.

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