RE: Who Worries about Global Warming?

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Phydeaux -> RE: Who Worries about Global Warming? (4/7/2014 9:17:59 PM)
I'd also like to point out DomKen, that your paper contradicts you strongly in another area. Do you remember our debate when I said that there was a hiatus in global warming? That d(temp)/d(time) was essential flat? Let me quote you your study: quote: About 15 years ago, the Earth's temperature was rising fast. Most climate models predicted that trend would continue, as humans continued to pump greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. Instead, the Earth's surface temperature over the past 13 years has been mostly stable. In recent years, scientists have worked to understand why this "pause" in warming has occurred and was not predicted by models (ClimateWire Nov. 1, 2013). "The fact that [the pause] has lasted a full 13 years has really challenged the scientific community to explain this mismatch between models and observations," said Matthew England, a climate scientist with the Australian Research Council's Centre of Excellence for Climate System Science. So, in fact there has indeed been a pause in global warming. And, in fact, the pause is roughly as long as the original global warming.

Whippedboy -> RE: Who Worries about Global Warming? (4/7/2014 10:54:12 PM)
The reason young people are worried and old people are not worried is because the old people are going to be dead when this is getting worse. The young ones are worried because they are going to be bearing the brunt of dumping trillions of tons of pollution into our air, water and onto our lands. Stupid young people! How could polluting everything one needs to survive cause you to worry? And let's say you are completely sure that there is nothing that humans are doing to change the earth in anyway. WTF is wrong with cleaning shit up a bit anyway? Recycle something? Burn something cleaner? Ride a bike once in a fucking while? Don't let your water run when you brush your teeth? Does any of this sound like a SACRIFICE? I know that scientists (somewhere I guess?) are getting RICH off this information, but give it a try anyway. I'm sure they will buy their houses right next to the CEO's of Exxon, Haliburton etc.

Whippedboy -> RE: Who Worries about Global Warming? (4/7/2014 11:09:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead That's a libertarian thing, sadly. All of the blather about "objective reality" (one of the four planks of Ayn Rand's tiresome philosophy) in objectivism and libertarianism breaks down into meaning: "my facts are facts, whether they bear any relation to objective reality or not, while your facts are not facts, because I don't like them and refuse to accept them as facts." Do you REALLY think Rand is the first to submit that if you don't agree with what I am saying then you are not right? Come on, not that stupid, right?

Whippedboy -> RE: Who Worries about Global Warming? (4/7/2014 11:38:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux Global ice cores, Nasa satellite data, European satellite data not enough.. eh? So here's a pretty picture from earth observatory... Does this look like global warming to you? [image]local://upfiles/11137/EC399CEC2B0A4526BC5F8A607E659A6A.jpg[/image] While I am sure we are all enjoying your cut/paste-a-thon I thought I would round out the story you Repubs seem to cut short regarding your medieval warming. A couple of notes you left out--"Despite substantial uncertainties, especially for the period prior to 1600 for which data are scarce, the warmest period of the last 2,000 years prior to the 20th century very likely occurred between 950 and 1100, but temperatures were probably between 0.1 °C and 0.2 °C below the 1961 to 1990 mean and significantly below the level shown by instrumental data after 1980." So, basically, you're wrong. Also,"Secondly, the Medieval Warm Period has KNOWN causes which explain both the scale of the warmth and the pattern. It has now become clear to scientists that the Medieval Warm Period occurred during a time which had higher than average solar radiation and less volcanic activity (both resulting in warming). New evidence is also suggesting that changes in ocean circulation patterns played a very important role in bringing warmer seawater into the North Atlantic. This explains much of the extraordinary warmth in that region. These causes of warming contrast significantly with today's warming, which we know cannot be caused by the same mechanisms." "In 1965 British climatologist Hubert Horace Lamb examined historical records of harvests and precipitation, along with early ice-core and tree-ring data, and concluded that the MWP was probably 1–2 °C (1.8–3.6 °F) warmer than early 20th-century conditions in Europe. Attempts to calculate global temperature changes during the MWP, even using modern instrumental and ice-core sampling techniques, have been inconclusive." "Overall, our conclusions are: a) Globally temperatures are warmer than they have been during the last 2,000 years, and b) the causes of Medieval warming are not the same as those causing late 20th century warming." Hey! Look! Read, I mean--Woook at the pwetty picture." And I saw the ONE article you quoted all over the place to make it seem as if there were MANY references, but sadly there was only one. With one source... It's from Global Research. Not necessarily bad but not best known for their investigative reporting. [image]local://upfiles/58779/A4C0596EC5E54F8CA7FB08FB29EC1FB1.gif[/image]

Phydeaux -> RE: Who Worries about Global Warming? (4/7/2014 11:59:13 PM)
quote: While I am sure we are all enjoying your cut/paste-a-thon I thought I would round out the story you Repubs seem to cut short regarding your medieval warming. Not a republican. quote: A couple of notes you left out--"Despite substantial uncertainties, especially for the period prior to 1600 for which data are scarce, the warmest period of the last 2,000 years prior to the 20th century very likely occurred between 950 and 1100, but temperatures were probably between 0.1 °C and 0.2 °C below the 1961 to 1990 mean and significantly below the level shown by instrumental data after 1980." So, basically, you're wrong. There are numerous papers that do not agree with your assessment of .1 to .2 oC. IT is a far jump from that, even if I accepted your premise, to say that I am wrong. Exactly what are you saying that I am wrong? That equatorial temperatures are cooler is really beyond question. And for the record - those figures were cut and pasted from no less than 4 sites. Global research, whats up with that, the Brit Met Office etc. quote: Also,"Secondly, the Medieval Warm Period has KNOWN causes which explain both the scale of the warmth and the pattern. It has now become clear to scientists that the Medieval Warm Period occurred during a time which had higher than average solar radiation and less volcanic activity (both resulting in warming). New evidence is also suggesting that changes in ocean circulation patterns played a very important role in bringing warmer seawater into the North Atlantic. This explains much of the extraordinary warmth in that region. These causes of warming contrast significantly with today's warming, which we know cannot be caused by the same mechanisms." You apparently know it. Others (svenmark) disagree with you. quote: "In 1965 British climatologist Hubert Horace Lamb examined historical records of harvests and precipitation, along with early ice-core and tree-ring data, and concluded that the MWP was probably 1–2 °C (1.8–3.6 °F) warmer than early 20th-century conditions in Europe. Numerous studies have shown that tree rings studies had methodological errors. Read some of them. quote: Attempts to calculate global temperature changes during the MWP, even using modern instrumental and ice-core sampling techniques, have been inconclusive." "Overall, our conclusions are: a) Globally temperatures are warmer than they have been during the last 2,000 years, and b) the causes of Medieval warming are not the same as those causing late 20th century warming." Cite please.

Whippedboy -> RE: Who Worries about Global Warming? (4/8/2014 12:36:11 AM)
Well, I Googled ONE paragraph from one of your posts and THIS came up: http://www.globalresearch.ca/global-cooling-is-here/10783?print=1 Pretty much your whole argument, pics included in one "lucky" draw, I'd say? Yes, Global Research. Do you think I was posting my opinions? No, I am posting the opinion of 97% of the scientists who think global climate change is real. Tree rings? It also mentions correlating with ice-core samples, which you seem to be all hot and sticky about. So, I encourage you to read the entire quote as you have encouraged so many others to do the same. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Warm_Period http://www.skepticalscience.com/medieval-warm-period.htm http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/175842/medieval-warm-period-MWP https://www.skepticalscience.com/global-warming-scientific-consensus.htm http://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus This goes back to my FIRST point--why NOT stop polluting REGARDLESS? I want to drink clean water, breathe clean air and not worry that my house is built on a toxic waste dump.

Moonhead -> RE: Who Worries about Global Warming? (4/8/2014 4:47:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Whippedboy The reason young people are worried and old people are not worried is because the old people are going to be dead when this is getting worse. There's plenty of old people in the West Country. [;)]

Tkman117 -> RE: Who Worries about Global Warming? (4/8/2014 5:58:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Whippedboy Well, I Googled ONE paragraph from one of your posts and THIS came up: http://www.globalresearch.ca/global-cooling-is-here/10783?print=1 Pretty much your whole argument, pics included in one "lucky" draw, I'd say? Yes, Global Research. Do you think I was posting my opinions? No, I am posting the opinion of 97% of the scientists who think global climate change is real. Tree rings? It also mentions correlating with ice-core samples, which you seem to be all hot and sticky about. So, I encourage you to read the entire quote as you have encouraged so many others to do the same. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Warm_Period http://www.skepticalscience.com/medieval-warm-period.htm http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/175842/medieval-warm-period-MWP https://www.skepticalscience.com/global-warming-scientific-consensus.htm http://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus This goes back to my FIRST point--why NOT stop polluting REGARDLESS? I want to drink clean water, breathe clean air and not worry that my house is built on a toxic waste dump. Dude I've quoted probably 50% or more of those links to him before, he doesn't care and he doesn't understand. A brick wall can comprehend this stuff better than he can. It's best not to waste your breath...or typing...or whatever lol. Just let him rant, he's not convincing anyone, so just enjoy the ignorance and have a fun time laughing at him, cause I sure am [:D]

DomKen -> RE: Who Worries about Global Warming? (4/8/2014 6:16:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux Global ice cores, Nasa satellite data, European satellite data not enough.. eh? So here's a pretty picture from earth observatory... Does this look like global warming to you? You picked a single moment in time as if that proves something? Do you know what is happening right now in the Eastern Pacific? Do you know the significance? Care to discuss the probable impact on global climate? LOL. There are at least 3 events happening over the eastern pacific, that relate to global warming. So it would be easy for me to pick one and you to say I'm wrong. So you do not actually pay any attention to science news and only get the talking points from the right wing webs sites gotcha. There is one and only one event in the eastern Pacific people interested in the climate are talking about right now. You wouldn't need to clutch at straws or go looking for some obscure paper about to be published if you were actually even moderately well informed. I'll let you in on the not secret, the biggest El Nino ever appears to be forming. It's only been all over the real climate news.

DomKen -> RE: Who Worries about Global Warming? (4/8/2014 6:17:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux I'd also like to point out DomKen, that your paper contradicts you strongly in another area. What paper? Why are you lying about me yet again?

Moonhead -> RE: Who Worries about Global Warming? (4/8/2014 6:53:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Whippedboy quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead That's a libertarian thing, sadly. All of the blather about "objective reality" (one of the four planks of Ayn Rand's tiresome philosophy) in objectivism and libertarianism breaks down into meaning: "my facts are facts, whether they bear any relation to objective reality or not, while your facts are not facts, because I don't like them and refuse to accept them as facts." Do you REALLY think Rand is the first to submit that if you don't agree with what I am saying then you are not right? Come on, not that stupid, right? Nope, but most of the people on here who submit that are Randians of one flavour or another. Thinks about it: why might there be a libertarian "all checks on the free flow of capitalism are evil" element among those denying that industrial activities have any impact on the climate? (And Rand, you'll find, definitely make that part of her core of her "philosophy". Probably not the first to do so, but among the most beloved of the American wing nut right, and an inspiration to many of those -Heinlein and his imitators spring to mind, for a start- who've done so in the 'States since.)

Lucylastic -> RE: Who Worries about Global Warming? (4/8/2014 7:36:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic Randians are even more delusional than fundie evangelists But not quite so much as 'tolerant' liberals. I dont tolerate wilful ignorance...and Ive always claimed that, which is why..we dont get on. You must have allergies. yes I have allergies to wilful ignorance and bullshit. whoevers it is... what didnt you get in the first comment???

Phydeaux -> RE: Who Worries about Global Warming? (4/8/2014 11:27:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux Global ice cores, Nasa satellite data, European satellite data not enough.. eh? So here's a pretty picture from earth observatory... Does this look like global warming to you? You picked a single moment in time as if that proves something? Do you know what is happening right now in the Eastern Pacific? Do you know the significance? Care to discuss the probable impact on global climate? LOL. There are at least 3 events happening over the eastern pacific, that relate to global warming. So it would be easy for me to pick one and you to say I'm wrong. So you do not actually pay any attention to science news and only get the talking points from the right wing webs sites gotcha. There is one and only one event in the eastern Pacific people interested in the climate are talking about right now. You wouldn't need to clutch at straws or go looking for some obscure paper about to be published if you were actually even moderately well informed. I'll let you in on the not secret, the biggest El Nino ever appears to be forming. It's only been all over the real climate news. In 40 words or less DomKen, explain the relationship of PDO's to el nino's.

Phydeaux -> RE: Who Worries about Global Warming? (4/8/2014 11:32:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Whippedboy Well, I Googled ONE paragraph from one of your posts and THIS came up: http://www.globalresearch.ca/global-cooling-is-here/10783?print=1 Pretty much your whole argument, pics included in one "lucky" draw, I'd say? Yes, Global Research. Do you think I was posting my opinions? No, I am posting the opinion of 97% of the scientists who think global climate change is real. Tree rings? It also mentions correlating with ice-core samples, which you seem to be all hot and sticky about. So, I encourage you to read the entire quote as you have encouraged so many others to do the same. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Warm_Period http://www.skepticalscience.com/medieval-warm-period.htm http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/175842/medieval-warm-period-MWP https://www.skepticalscience.com/global-warming-scientific-consensus.htm http://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus This goes back to my FIRST point--why NOT stop polluting REGARDLESS? I want to drink clean water, breathe clean air and not worry that my house is built on a toxic waste dump. Because you also want healthcare, and Internet and food. And you like the typical little techno-ignorant liberal have no idea of the requirements to generate those things you feel oh so entitled to. I asked for one thing a cite for your claim: quote: Attempts to calculate global temperature changes during the MWP, even using modern instrumental and ice-core sampling techniques, have been inconclusive." "Overall, our conclusions are: a) Globally temperatures are warmer than they have been during the last 2,000 years, and b) the causes of Medieval warming are not the same as those causing late 20th century warming." From a science paper. Not the blog skeptical science whose purpose is to drown out other voices.

PeonForHer -> RE: Who Worries about Global Warming? (4/8/2014 11:42:49 AM)
FR "People only set themselves such problems as they can solve" The right wing world view has nothing in it that can solve the problem of human induced climate change. Therefore, the problem of human induced climate change can't exist. That's all it is.

DomKen -> RE: Who Worries about Global Warming? (4/8/2014 11:43:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux Global ice cores, Nasa satellite data, European satellite data not enough.. eh? So here's a pretty picture from earth observatory... Does this look like global warming to you? You picked a single moment in time as if that proves something? Do you know what is happening right now in the Eastern Pacific? Do you know the significance? Care to discuss the probable impact on global climate? LOL. There are at least 3 events happening over the eastern pacific, that relate to global warming. So it would be easy for me to pick one and you to say I'm wrong. So you do not actually pay any attention to science news and only get the talking points from the right wing webs sites gotcha. There is one and only one event in the eastern Pacific people interested in the climate are talking about right now. You wouldn't need to clutch at straws or go looking for some obscure paper about to be published if you were actually even moderately well informed. I'll let you in on the not secret, the biggest El Nino ever appears to be forming. It's only been all over the real climate news. In 40 words or less DomKen, explain the relationship of PDO's to el nino's. Pacific Decadal Oscillations may be but are not conclusively related to the el nino. So that is not possible. But you'd know that as well if you actually knew what you were talking about which it is obvious you don't. So sad.

Phydeaux -> RE: Who Worries about Global Warming? (4/8/2014 11:52:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux Global ice cores, Nasa satellite data, European satellite data not enough.. eh? So here's a pretty picture from earth observatory... Does this look like global warming to you? You picked a single moment in time as if that proves something? Do you know what is happening right now in the Eastern Pacific? Do you know the significance? Care to discuss the probable impact on global climate? LOL. There are at least 3 events happening over the eastern pacific, that relate to global warming. So it would be easy for me to pick one and you to say I'm wrong. So you do not actually pay any attention to science news and only get the talking points from the right wing webs sites gotcha. There is one and only one event in the eastern Pacific people interested in the climate are talking about right now. You wouldn't need to clutch at straws or go looking for some obscure paper about to be published if you were actually even moderately well informed. I'll let you in on the not secret, the biggest El Nino ever appears to be forming. It's only been all over the real climate news. In 40 words or less DomKen, explain the relationship of PDO's to el nino's. Pacific Decadal Oscillations may be but are not conclusively related to the el nino. So that is not possible. But you'd know that as well if you actually knew what you were talking about which it is obvious you don't. So sad. Funny. https://www.nc-climate.ncsu.edu/climate/patterns/PDO.html Still can't post the energy requirements to make gasoline from seawater, eh Ken?

Lucylastic -> RE: Who Worries about Global Warming? (4/8/2014 11:57:47 AM)
please can you trim your quotes chaps??

DomKen -> RE: Who Worries about Global Warming? (4/8/2014 12:37:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux Funny. https://www.nc-climate.ncsu.edu/climate/patterns/PDO.html Can't you read? the very first line: quote: The Pacific Decadal Oscillation (PDO) is a pattern of Pacific climate variability similar to ENSO in character similar. There is no conclusive relationship.

Phydeaux -> RE: Who Worries about Global Warming? (4/8/2014 3:54:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Whippedboy LOVE how you disregard the other 4 citations? You want more? Seriously? Actually speedo.. all I ever wanted was one quote from a .. yanno, science paper. Seems your literacy doesn't extend that far.

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