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Why? - 4/13/2014 5:53:09 PM   
ThePrincessKali


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I've been on this site for a few years now. I am a Fin Domme and I know a lot of people hear those two words and automatically judge or think my opinion isn't valid. I know that being a Fin Domme also upsets a lot of men listed as submissive bc many feel that Fin Dommes are responsible for other dominant woman not being willing to act a fetish delivery system. I receive harassing messages daily. I'm also on a vanilla dating site and I relieve sexual harassing messages daily as well. On the vanilla site they tend to be more sexual in nature. I made a point not to post photos of me wearing anything low cut or revealing because I'm a C cup and I didn't want to be judged on the size of my bust. I had one photo that I didn't consider revealing, I was in a tank top and was hiking in the photo. I took it down shortly after I uploaded it bc I received dozens of messages about "my tits." I regularly receive crude sexual propositions on the vanilla site. Most of them are in a more aggressive nature. Where as on here I get called a whore, prostitute, etc and it's always by profiles identified as males. I think in my three years on here I got two messages that were what I would consider mean by profiles that identified as females. The harassment on here as I mentioned is more the distaste of findom, a lot of Doms telling me I have to submit to them, men who are angry I won't dominate them in the specific way they want, completely random unsolicited harassment, etc. It's weird bc on the vanilla site where I actually have my photos up I have never gotten negative messages about my appearance. But here where I have no photos of my face or body I get told I'm fat, ugly, etc, etc. The most recent was a slave today who sent me a message telling me he wanted to rip the "cow ring" referring to my lip ring, out of my face. My male friends on vanilla dating sites tell me they get sexual propositions from time to time but never anything forceful or aggressive. I know men are more sexual than women a lot of the time but what gives? Even in my day to day life I get sexual obscenities screamed at me or grabbed by random men while at a bar. I have yet to see a girl yell "nice dick!!" At a stranger jogging. I guess my question is why? I get the part about being more sexual but how does that translate into the aggression and violence?
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RE: Why? - 4/13/2014 6:10:51 PM   
RemoteUser


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You could make up any generalization or theory you want, it comes down to objectification. The issue isn't you, it's the way they perceive you, and probably based solely on your gender. Which sucks, because real life doesn't have a block and hide.

Which would be a nice option.




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RE: Why? - 4/13/2014 6:57:23 PM   
booklover13


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Some men are pigs. Notice I said "some", not all.

PrincessKali, I am old enough to be your mother. Granted, I am still attractive for an old gal. I have profiles up on several vanilla sites, too. I get crude sexual propositions from men on a daily basis. These men range in age from early 20s to early 70s. It's kind of sad, actually. I just ignore the messages.

I'm at the age where men don't grab at me anymore or make crude remarks in public. But, I endured that for many years.

Getting old has its advantages.

Bottom line: Online - ignore their juvenile, moronic remarks. In public - walk away. Don't let these creeps get under your skin. There are lots of very decent guys out there who deserve your time and consideration.

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RE: why do men treat women like sex objects - 4/13/2014 6:58:42 PM   
kalikshama


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Here's a jumping point for discussion:

Sexual objectification

Sexual objectification is the act of treating a person merely as an instrument of sexual pleasure, making them a "sex object". Objectification more broadly means treating a person as a commodity or an object, without regard to their personality or dignity. Objectification is most commonly examined at the level of a society, but can also refer to the behavior of individuals.

The concept of sexual objectification and, in particular, the objectification of women, is an important idea in feminist theory and psychological theories derived from feminism.[1][2] Many feminists regard sexual objectification as deplorable and as playing an important role in gender inequality.[3] However, some social commentators argue that some modern women objectify themselves as an expression of their empowerment over men, while others argue that increased sexual freedom for women and for gay and bisexual men has led to an increase of the objectification of men.[4][5][6][7][8] The idea of sexual objectification has also been an important area of discussion and debate in the area of sexual ethics and the philosophy of sex.[9]

Read more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_objectification

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RE: Why? - 4/13/2014 7:04:22 PM   
njlauren


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Quite honestly, a lot of men are jerks in real life, and when you add in net based interactions, it makes guys who are halfway decent in real life act like jerks. I kind of think that the net puts a layer of abstraction between people that makes it very easy to get lost in fantasy or as the prior poster put it, objectification. They don't see you as a woman per se, they see pictures on the net, whether it is fetishy ones like you have here, or more normal ones on a dating site, and figure the rules don't apply. Some of them look at profile on here (remember, lot of these guys are not sub), and see a 'stuck up bitch' and retaliate by acting like pigs, others are attracted but see you as a walking wet dream, so to speak, instead of as a person, and it is pathetic, but it is the reality of a lot of the wankers on the net.

I remember when I was still doing pro sessions (as a client), and getting comments from the people I saw, to the gals running the offices, that I was easy to work with and polite, that I didn't demand anything, didn't bitch and moan if the session wasn't exactly 60 minutes, helped clean up after the session and otherwise made the effort to show simple common courtesy to every one there and acted as if I enjoyed talking with them and such (which I genuinely did enjoy). They had a lot of men come in (and a few sub women as well, as rare as that is in pro circles) who treated them like they were some sort of servant or worse, and some of that may be bleeding through, too.

I also saw the same thing up close and personal when I was actively going out to clubs that attracted crossdressers and trans gals and their 'admirers', and having men treat me, not as a person, but as an object for them to have fun with. I am not talking Ds, not talking where it was consensual, but rather where they genuinely were so caught up in the CD's and trans gals as some sort if image from a porn movie, or maybe it was because it was a club and after all, many of the people there are spinning a web of illusion (that gorgeous woman in the tight dress with the seeming big tits, come hither look and so forth, the rest of the time is a nerdy accountant no one would give to looks to....), but they simply lose all perspective, and it was pretty sad and sometimes scary. Guys touching you in places that other places could get them arrested, guys coming up to you and asking "how big is your dick?", or other guys trying to grab your head to force a kiss, or propositioning people with all kinds of wild stuff, no talking, no introducing themselves...and I was kind of on the periphery of it, I wasn't that stunning looking, believe me, and wasn't really looking for anything that strongly, for other gals it was a lot worse. I remember one creepy guy, when I deliberately ignored him, refused the offer of a drink, etc, finally asking why I was acting like such a stuck up bitch, and I finally had enough and told him "would you behave like that if you were in a nightclub and saw an attractive woman you wanted to know better? Would you sit back and watch a guy do that to your sister (if you have one) and not want to throttle the guy? Get a clue, whether a CD out on their once a year/once a month outing, or the trans gals in various states of transition and so forth, they are people, and would like to be treated like one..."

What you are seeing is still common with men, though it isn't as common as it once was. Think of the image of construction workers when a pretty woman walks by the job site, the way they stereotypically can behave, think of the guys who will on the street comment on how a girl looks, or make sounds and so forth.....and sadly, it was kind of treated with a nod nod wink wink by other people, boys will be boys, etc kind go crap. Women are taught not to behave like that, and I suspect most of them, because they have been treated like meat, couldn't go there.

Then I think of collar me, I have gotten some messages from a few women (very few, not unsurprisingly) that were showing interest outside of something I posted, and at least they introduced themselves, wrote something about themselves and were curious about me but not pushy...compare that to the guys who write a note that says "hi" or "U b hot, babe" or "I wanna bend u ovr and fk u", which is about 95% of the messages I get from men.

I also will addd that this isn't all men and I don't want it to be male bashing, women can behave like jerks, too, I have sent notes to some women on here, not looking for anything (I specifically said so), complimented them on something, commented on something in their profile, and have gotten responses that were rude and arrogant when I didn't proposition them, was polite, and they were as jerky in their own way as men can be. One of the problems is is that the decent guys don't go fishing in profiles, they are careful who they send messages to so make up a minority of the traffic you or I would see, it is the jerks that flood things.

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RE: why do men treat women like sex objects - 4/13/2014 7:09:01 PM   
kalikshama


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Women And Objectification: Brain Sees Men As Whole, Women in Parts (STUDY)

A glimpse at the magazine rack in any supermarket checkout line will tell you that women are frequently the focus of sexual objectification. Now, new research finds that the brain actually processes images of women differently than those of men, contributing to this trend.

Women are more likely to be picked apart by the brain and seen as parts rather than a whole, according to research published online June 29 in the European Journal of Social Psychology. Men, on the other hand, are processed as a whole rather than the sum of their parts.

"Everyday, ordinary women are being reduced to their sexual body parts," said study author Sarah Gervais, a psychologist at the University of Nebraska, Lincoln. "This isn't just something that supermodels or porn stars have to deal with."

Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/25/women-and-objectification_n_1701275.html

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RE: Why? - 4/13/2014 7:15:13 PM   
ThePrincessKali


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I guess I'm just wondering if it's societal viewpoints and culture or something that's in the hard wiring of a lot of men. I suppose one could blame the media and the over sexualization of women but I see photos of shirtless men with their abs out all the time on billboards and I don't go around harassing guys on the street because of it lol.

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RE: Why? - 4/13/2014 7:20:34 PM   
RemoteUser


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As mentioned briefly prior...it's not all men, but it is those boys, that choose to behave like that because they truly think they are entitled to. So if it's in the wiring (and I think it's social programming, hardly genetic) then they have a few short circuits (and probably in the groin region).

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RE: why do men treat women like sex objects - 4/13/2014 7:27:41 PM   
ThePrincessKali


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

Women And Objectification: Brain Sees Men As Whole, Women in Parts (STUDY)

A glimpse at the magazine rack in any supermarket checkout line will tell you that women are frequently the focus of sexual objectification. Now, new research finds that the brain actually processes images of women differently than those of men, contributing to this trend.

Women are more likely to be picked apart by the brain and seen as parts rather than a whole, according to research published online June 29 in the European Journal of Social Psychology. Men, on the other hand, are processed as a whole rather than the sum of their parts.

"Everyday, ordinary women are being reduced to their sexual body parts," said study author Sarah Gervais, a psychologist at the University of Nebraska, Lincoln. "This isn't just something that supermodels or porn stars have to deal with."

Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/25/women-and-objectification_n_1701275.html



Thanks for sharing this.

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RE: why do men treat women like sex objects - 4/13/2014 7:34:09 PM   
StrictlyADomina


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Interesting, why would more males do that on average than females? Well, lets see. I think that there are two reasons. The internet gives anonymity and there are some people who will say things on the internet they would NEVER say in real life. Secondly, about 1/4th of the males out there are barbarous primates.

1 out of 4 of women will experience domestic violence as opposed to 1 out of 14 for males.
http://www.ncadv.org/files/DomesticViolenceFactSheet%28National%29.pdf
1 in 6 women as compared to 1 in 33 males will be raped or attempted rape.
25% of girls will be sexually abused before they are 18 as compared to 1/7 males.
Oh, wait what sex were all the mass shooters? Um, why they were male!

Oh by the by the perpetrators are 90% male for these categories.

All of these abuses are about power and dominance over someone or something. So the bigger question is why are males so aggressive? Because they are wired that way, society more or less condones that behavior and honestly the vast majority of women put up with too much shit. When some males see that, they believe thy can get away with that behavior.
Psychology Today: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/experiments-in-philosophy/201202/why-are-men-so-violent

So, yea, about 25% of them (males) are crap, by that I mean violent, abusive, neanderthals that cant be fixed, because they enjoy being that way.
That's why you got those comments.


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RE: why do men treat women like sex objects - 4/13/2014 7:56:59 PM   
RedMagic1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: StrictlyADomina
1 out of 4 of women will experience domestic violence as opposed to 1 out of 14 for males.
http://www.ncadv.org/files/DomesticViolenceFactSheet%28National%29.pdf

That's no longer considered a scientifically-supported statistic, just fyi. Multiple studies and larger sample sizes now seem to demonstrate that man-on-woman and woman-on-man domestic violence occurs with about equal frequency. The arrest and conviction rate for men is much higher, in part because men on average do more physical damage when they hit. But be wary of numbers like the ones you quoted, because they are usually based on conviction rates, or charges-filed rates, instead of on self-reported actual incidents.

More details here, and in the cited studies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_violence_against_men#Reciprocal_violence

Also, here's something that might interest you. In self-reporting interviews and questionnaires, women are very unlikely to say they engaged in domestic violence against their male partner, and men are also unlikely to say they are the victims of DV. But when questions are asked that refer to specific illegal acts, like hitting first, both women and men report that women initiate DV in relationships about as frequently as men do. So women self-report that they commit domestic violence, but they don't see that that is what they are doing.

It's shitty what the OP and a lot of other women have to put up with, but the gender situation isn't as black-and-white as your post tries to paint it.

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Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
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RE: Why? - 4/13/2014 8:29:39 PM   
seekingreality


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThePrincessKali

I get the part about being more sexual but how does that translate into the aggression and violence?



Testosterone.

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RE: Why? - 4/14/2014 4:40:34 AM   
StrictlyADomina


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@ RedMajic: ROFL you cited Wikipedia?

How about The National Bar Association citing 25% and No it's not the bartenders group. http://www.nij.gov/publications/pages/publication-detail.aspx?ncjnumber=181867

How about the Department of justice citing that" Eight in ten murderers who killed a family member were male. Males were 83% of spouse murderers and 75% of murderers who killed a boyfriend or girlfriend"
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fvs02.pdf

So do male perpetrators of domestic violence report to the police that "She hit me first?" Oh heck yea. Given the credible research out there that's 20 years old, that is bullshit. Do males suffer from domestic abuse, yep, but at no where near the rate that women do. Let's also not forget that males and females are in relationships with partners of the same sex. So some of the males reporting partner abuse have males as partners.

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RE: Why? - 4/14/2014 7:17:02 AM   
ARIES83


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quote:

I have yet to see a girl yell "nice dick!!" At a stranger jogging.

I've yet to see anyone yell "nice cunt!!" At a stranger jogging... I wonder if there's a connection...

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RE: Why? - 4/14/2014 8:08:14 AM   
DesFIP


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Getting back to the random fly by nastygrams. It's because the guys who do this know that they haven't got a shot at having sex with you. They believe that this is a sex site, and any woman who is here is therefore a promiscuous slut. But then they get rejected, or realize they will get rejected if they contact you, and they are angry that here, where all kinds of women are having sex, but not with them.

That's what drives this. They think any woman here is spreading her legs for any man, and they still can't get any.

It's entirely due to their own misconceptions. Nothing you do or say will change it.
It is one of the reasons why we strongly suggest women do not respond to say thanks but no thanks, because that will be followed by vitriol such as you've received.

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RE: Why? - 4/14/2014 8:28:04 AM   
RedMagic1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: StrictlyADomina
@ RedMajic: ROFL you cited Wikipedia?

This comment leads me to believe you aren't a professional scholar. The science material on Wikipedia is more likely to be accurate than the science material in Encyclopedia Britannica.

As an anecdote, the first time my own work was cited in a Wikipedia article, it was put there by a Wikipedia editor who is a full professor at a well-known university. He's far better known in his field than I am, and he's been editing Wikipedia articles for years. This is fairly standard in technical disciplines.

It's correct to be suspicious of Wikipedia when it comes to topics like Iran, since the CIA has been caught repeatedly editing that article. Other governments, I am sure, do the same thing. But Wikipedia is a phenomenal gateway to scientific content.

Out of curiosity, did you read any of the studies that are in the citations? The point is: those 20-year-old studies you rely on had flawed methodology. Science advances, our methods improve, and we gain better understanding than we had before.

Political entities rely on funding to continue at the same or higher level as previous years. If you want facts, instead of spin, you're much more likely to get them from the citations on crowdsourced Wikipedia articles (where lots of points of view are represented), instead of a government pamphlet.

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Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
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RE: Why? - 4/14/2014 9:44:29 AM   
ThePrincessKali


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83

quote:

I have yet to see a girl yell "nice dick!!" At a stranger jogging.

I've yet to see anyone yell "nice cunt!!" At a stranger jogging... I wonder if there's a connection...


I'll rephrase. I've yet to hear a woman yell anything sexual at a man who was jogging or walking down the street.

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RE: Why? - 4/14/2014 9:58:23 AM   
ARIES83


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You're living under a rock, I've been the subject of objectification, the kind of behaviour your referring to is the result of types of people, not a specific gender...
Try working at night a night club as a guy...

Im more than a little sick of the blanket character assassination levelled at men as a gender.

< Message edited by ARIES83 -- 4/14/2014 10:18:29 AM >


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RE: Why? - 4/14/2014 3:30:09 PM   
orgasmdenial12


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Because, in our sexist culture, it's not acceptable for women to exploit men sexually. It's only acceptable for women to make money out of men's sexuality if the man gets to fuck her. Because you're taking their money without letting them fuck you, they want to challenge the power you have that enables you to do that. So they attempt to humiliate you or enforce sexual dominance over you, to reassert your powerlessness.

I would say - take pleasure in the knowledge that you're challenging and rejecting their narrow little belief systems. Anger is the sign of a weak person, who has no other way of changing what they dislike. Watch them jumping up and down in impotent fury and enjoy it, it's not like there's anything they can do about it :-)

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RE: Why do men treat women like sex objects? - 4/14/2014 4:58:55 PM   
FieryOpal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ARIES83

You're living under a rock, I've been the subject of objectification,... Try working at night [in] a night club as a guy.

So ARIES, stop holding out on us -- Where's the shirtless photo?

You know, the one with you wearing a black bow tie around your neck....

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