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Catholic church STILL aiding and abetting phedophiles - 4/16/2014 5:55:21 AM   
GotSteel


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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/italys-bishops-pass-vaticanbacked-rule-stating-they-do-not-have-to-report-if-a-priest-has-molested-a-child-9222501.html

One would think that after almost two millennia any remotely non evil organization would stop helping monsters rape babies if for no other reason, simply as a matter of practicality. But the catholic church seems bizarrely unable not to aid and abet pedophiles.

How the fuck do they manage to fail at morality this badly, it's just mind boggling?
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RE: Catholic church STILL aiding and abetting phedophiles - 4/16/2014 7:01:19 AM   
Moonhead


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RE: Catholic church STILL aiding and abetting phedophiles - 4/16/2014 4:14:08 PM   
cloudboy


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As a Catholic, non practicing, I'm dumbfounded.

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RE: Catholic church STILL aiding and abetting phedophiles - 4/16/2014 4:47:16 PM   
jlf1961


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Status: offline 		So, all the Papal orders to bishops to report and punish pedophilia in the priesthood are bullshit?

Of course one has to wonder about the fact that no mainstream news outlets have said anything about this, which means that the entire mainstream news media is under the control of the Catholic Church and not Obama!

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RE: Catholic church STILL aiding and abetting phedophiles - 4/16/2014 4:54:22 PM   
cloudboy


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Why would the church not want to report criminal conduct to the police?


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RE: Catholic church STILL aiding and abetting phedophiles - 4/16/2014 5:15:21 PM   
jlf1961


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


Why would the church not want to report criminal conduct to the police?




Actually, Pope Francis has told bishops around the world to do just that.

It just sounds better for the non truth spreading conspiracy sites to say otherwise.

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RE: Catholic church STILL aiding and abetting phedophiles - 4/16/2014 5:19:45 PM   
Phydeaux


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Status: offline 		I'm inclined to believe the article is bullshit.

However, the article is not as black and white as portrayed. Suppose you murder someone. You go to confession. The priest by his vows is prohibited from telling anyone what happened in confessional.

Do you think the case I just posted is anyworse than telling your lawyer the same thing?

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RE: Catholic church STILL aiding and abetting phedophiles - 4/16/2014 7:01:07 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

One would think that after almost two millennia any remotely non evil organization would stop helping monsters rape babies if for no other reason, simply as a matter of practicality. But the catholic church seems bizarrely unable not to aid and abet pedophiles.

How the fuck do they manage to fail at morality this badly, it's just mind boggling?

I found the story at several other news sites, including the Washington Post, but in every case the link came up page not found. I don't know whether it just isn't at the original link anymore, or whether it got pulled. But the previous pope was defrocking priests almost every other day, and the 2010 guidelines require that "civil law concerning reporting of crimes to the appropriate authorities should always be followed." So it seems very peculiar.

I liked the "raping babies" bit, though. That was very creative, and it shows both the lack of bias and devotion to honesty that we've learned we can depend on from you.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 4/16/2014 7:19:23 PM >

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RE: Catholic church STILL aiding and abetting phedophiles - 4/16/2014 8:25:12 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
I found the story at several other news sites, including the Washington Post, but in every case the link came up page not found. I don't know whether it just isn't at the original link anymore, or whether it got pulled. But the previous pope was defrocking priests almost every other day, and the 2010 guidelines require that "civil law concerning reporting of crimes to the appropriate authorities should always be followed." So it seems very peculiar.

I originally read the washington post coverage, didn't know it was particularly widely covered, but looking for it TIME covered it as well: http://time.com/41997/italy-bishops-say-they-dont-have-to-report-abuse/

The link I posted claims these new Italy guidelines are the same as the 2010 guidelines:

quote:


Only in 2010 did the Vatican instruct bishops to report abuse to police — but only where required by law.

Italian guidelines cite a 1985 treaty between the Vatican and Italy stipulating that clergy aren't obliged to tell magistrates about information obtained through their religious ministry.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
I liked the "raping babies" bit, though. That was very creative, and it shows both the lack of bias and devotion to honesty that we've learned we can depend on from you.


Not creative at all, I'm referring to the aiding and abetting of literal baby rapers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_abuse_scandal_in_Stockton_diocese
The 2006 documentary Deliver Us from Evil is based on accusations that Mahony, while serving as Bishop of the Roman Catholic Diocese of Stockton, knew that Oliver O'Grady, a priest who sexually abused children, including a nine-month-old baby, in a string of Central California towns for 20 years, was a child molester but failed to keep him away from children.


If I recall the documentary correctly that particular baby had to be rushed to the emergency room to stop internal bleeding.

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RE: Catholic church STILL aiding and abetting phedophiles - 4/16/2014 8:42:53 PM   
Phydeaux


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
I found the story at several other news sites, including the Washington Post, but in every case the link came up page not found. I don't know whether it just isn't at the original link anymore, or whether it got pulled. But the previous pope was defrocking priests almost every other day, and the 2010 guidelines require that "civil law concerning reporting of crimes to the appropriate authorities should always be followed." So it seems very peculiar.

I originally read the washington post coverage, didn't know it was particularly widely covered, but looking for it TIME covered it as well: http://time.com/41997/italy-bishops-say-they-dont-have-to-report-abuse/

The link I posted claims these new Italy guidelines are the same as the 2010 guidelines:

quote:


Only in 2010 did the Vatican instruct bishops to report abuse to police — but only where required by law.

Italian guidelines cite a 1985 treaty between the Vatican and Italy stipulating that clergy aren't obliged to tell magistrates about information obtained through their religious ministry.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
I liked the "raping babies" bit, though. That was very creative, and it shows both the lack of bias and devotion to honesty that we've learned we can depend on from you.


Not creative at all, I'm referring to the aiding and abetting of literal baby rapers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_abuse_scandal_in_Stockton_diocese
The 2006 documentary Deliver Us from Evil is based on accusations that Mahony, while serving as Bishop of the Roman Catholic Diocese of Stockton, knew that Oliver O'Grady, a priest who sexually abused children, including a nine-month-old baby, in a string of Central California towns for 20 years, was a child molester but failed to keep him away from children.


If I recall the documentary correctly that particular baby had to be rushed to the emergency room to stop internal bleeding.



Just curious. If this was just any homosexual, would you be so breathless? Would you support bashing homosexuals, or homosexual organizations?

Or do you suppose that your prosecution might reflect merely your bias against the Catholic church?


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RE: Catholic church STILL aiding and abetting phedophiles - 4/16/2014 9:36:41 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

Not creative at all...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_abuse_scandal_in_Stockton_diocese

Good grief. I stand corrected.

K.

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RE: Catholic church STILL aiding and abetting phedophiles - 4/16/2014 9:50:25 PM   
cloudboy


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What you are saying and what is in news report of the OP are completely different. If you are comfortable blowing off the news report as false, that may work for you, but I am disturbed by it.

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RE: Catholic church STILL aiding and abetting phedophiles - 4/17/2014 1:56:52 AM   
SadistDave


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Status: offline 		I don't know why this is even newsworthy. Granted I'm a little jaded but lets be perfectly honest. This is something that has plagued the Catholic Church for centuries. Hell, in the middle ages they used to call pedophilia and homosexuality "monks disease". You would think that after a good 1000 years or so it would cease to be news.

Reporting these crimes is a double edged sword for the Church. It's bad publicity either way. The only reason they have to face the bad press is to try to regain the moral high ground that they need to survive after the last time they didn't report criminal activity among the priests. Unfortunately, they can simply not report criminals in the church and try to regain the moral high ground they lost the last time they reported them. They are literally damned if they do and damned if they don't. I suppose that's the problem with claiming the moral high ground.

Of course the Biblical teaching that church problems should be taken care of from within the church just exacerbates the issue. I don't know if they still do it, but in the not-so-very-old days they used to just change peoples names and ship them off to parts unknown for missionary work whenever a parent raised an issue about a priest. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd bet that they still cover up what they know they can get away with covering up and only report priests when they can't.

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RE: Catholic church STILL aiding and abetting phedophiles - 4/17/2014 2:04:48 AM   
DaddySatyr


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Status: offline 		In the hypothetical you offer, priests are told that they are to withhold absolution until the penitent has taken responsibility for the act.

The priest, themselves can't report the crime but, we're assuming that someone plagued enough by their conscience to want to go to confession will do whatever the priest says must be done to obtain that absolution.

It's not always just "ten 'Our Fathers', ten "Hail Marys' and drop a fiver in the poorbox"








quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Suppose you murder someone. You go to confession. The priest by his vows is prohibited from telling anyone what happened in confessional.

Do you think the case I just posted is anyworse than telling your lawyer the same thing?





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RE: Catholic church STILL aiding and abetting phedophiles - 4/17/2014 4:43:36 AM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
Just curious. If this was just any homosexual, would you be so breathless? Would you support bashing homosexuals, or homosexual organizations?

Or do you suppose that your prosecution might reflect merely your bias against the Catholic church?

Oliver O'Grady wasn't a homosexual, the baby was female.

That said I am very comfortable outgrouping any organization that's a child rape organized crime ring. Furthermore I don't suspect that I'd be talking about this if it wasn't the catholic church as the organization would be shut down and the lot of them would be in jail under RICO statutes or similar laws of other countries.

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RE: Catholic church STILL aiding and abetting phedophiles - 4/17/2014 4:53:03 AM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDave
I don't know if they still do it, but in the not-so-very-old days they used to just change peoples names and ship them off to parts unknown for missionary work whenever a parent raised an issue about a priest. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd bet that they still cover up what they know they can get away with covering up and only report priests when they can't.


With O'Grady they didn't even do that, multiple times they got him some religious councelling and moved him less than 40 miles.

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RE: Catholic church STILL aiding and abetting phedophiles - 4/17/2014 5:01:41 AM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
In the hypothetical you offer, priests are told that they are to withhold absolution until the penitent has taken responsibility for the act.

The priest, themselves can't report the crime but, we're assuming that someone plagued enough by their conscience to want to go to confession will do whatever the priest says must be done to obtain that absolution.

It's not always just "ten 'Our Fathers', ten "Hail Marys' and drop a fiver in the poorbox"


Father O'Grady was finally caught because the Catholic Church finally made the mistake of sending him to a mental health professional instead of a priest. After O'Grady explained his problem the doctors immediate response was I'm required by law to call the police now.

< Message edited by GotSteel -- 4/17/2014 5:02:24 AM >

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RE: Catholic church STILL aiding and abetting phedophiles - 4/17/2014 6:00:13 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux



Just curious. If this was just any homosexual, would you be so breathless? Would you support bashing homosexuals, or homosexual organizations?

Or do you suppose that your prosecution might reflect merely your bias against the Catholic church?



Pedophiles are not homosexuals! That is a disgusting accusation.

< Message edited by DomKen -- 4/17/2014 6:10:30 AM >

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RE: Catholic church STILL aiding and abetting phedophiles - 4/17/2014 6:30:10 AM   
angelikaJ


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


If I recall the documentary correctly that particular baby had to be rushed to the emergency room to stop internal bleeding.



Just curious. If this was just any homosexual, would you be so breathless? Would you support bashing homosexuals, or homosexual organizations?

Or do you suppose that your prosecution might reflect merely your bias against the Catholic church?




You have finally surprised me, Phydeaux.
The ignorance (in the sense of simply not knowing) that surrounds the assumption astonished me.
Perhaps you get your information from places like Putin, Anita Bryant, the Family Research Council or PFAW, and in that case, I just expected too much from you.

edit: fix and trim quote






< Message edited by angelikaJ -- 4/17/2014 6:56:02 AM >

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RE: Catholic church STILL aiding and abetting phedophiles - 4/17/2014 6:45:17 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:


If I recall the documentary correctly that particular baby had to be rushed to the emergency room to stop internal bleeding.



Just curious. If this was just any homosexual, would you be so breathless? Would you support bashing homosexuals, or homosexual organizations?

Or do you suppose that your prosecution might reflect merely your bias against the Catholic church?


Far out. I'd actually whisked past that comment because it made no sense to me. You actually equate homosexuals and paedophiles, Phydeaux?

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