RE: Catholic church STILL aiding and abetting phedophiles

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njlauren -> RE: Catholic church STILL aiding and abetting phedophiles (4/20/2014 4:33:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux It means he's a heterosexual pedophile. You don't get to make up the meanings of words. The overwhelming majority of pedophiles are men raping young women. That said, most pedophiles are capable of having sex with either, desiring either, because young kids are androgynous, pedophiles are attracted to young kids because they are not sexual yet.

njlauren -> RE: Catholic church STILL aiding and abetting phedophiles (4/20/2014 4:37:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux My apologies for the lost posts. Catholic church STILL aiding and abetting phedophiles - 4/18/2014 3:55:30 PM Phydeux quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel quote: ORIGINAL: Phydux I gave as an example of that the fact that there are literally millions of cases of pedophilia in the Muslim world. In fact more than a million cases in Afghanistan alone. Ie 100 times the scandal in the Catholic chirch... and this leads to not a shred of outrage. quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux So I'll say it again: I am a appalled by errors the Catholic Church has made. And I am just as appalled at the blatant bigoted and repulsive posts by you, gotsteel. And others. Errors promoting a priest for raping a baby is more than an error. And you've spoken about priests and bishops but what about the previous pedo-pope? He should be brought to justice right? Sorry champ I'm far more interested in talking about According to the study, "Archives of Sexual Behavior," some 86 percent of pedophiles described themselves as homosexual or bisexual. Also, the study found, the number of teenage male prostitutes who identify as homosexuals has risen from 10 percent to 60 percent in the past 15 years. * In 1995 the homosexual magazine "Guide" said, "We can be proud that the gay movement has been home to the few voices who have had the courage to say out loud that children are naturally sexual" and "deserve the right to sexual expression with whoever they choose. " The article went on to say: "Instead of fearing being labeled pedophiles, we must proudly proclaim that sex is good, including children's sexuality we must do it for the children's sake." Child molestation and pedophilia occur far more commonly among homosexuals than among heterosexuals on a per capita basis, according to a new study. In her thesis also written for the Regent University Law Review Reisman cited psychologist Eugene Abel, whose research found that homosexuals "sexually molest young boys with an incidence that is occurring from five times greater than the molestation of girls. " Abel also found that non-incarcerated "child molesters admitted from 23.4 to 281.7 acts per offender whose targets were males." "The rate of homosexual versus heterosexual child sexual abuse is staggering," said Reisman, who was the principal investigator for an $800,000 Justice Department grant studying child pornography and violence. "Abel,s data of 150.2 boys abused per male homosexual offender finds no equal (yet) in heterosexual violations of 19.8 girls." Gay press promotes sex with children Baldwin says his research not only "confirms that homosexuals molest children at a rate vastly higher than heterosexuals," but it found that "the mainstream homosexual culture" even "commonly promotes sex with children." "The editorial board of the leading pedophile academic journal, Paidika, is dominated by prominent homosexual scholars such as San Francisco State University professor John DeCecco, who happens to edit the Journal of Homosexuality," Baldwin wrote. During his research, he also found: * The Journal of Homosexuality recently published a special double-issue entitled, "Male Intergenerational Intimacy," containing many articles portraying sex between men and minor boys as loving relationships. One article said parents should look upon the pedophile who loves their son "not as a rival or competitor, not as a theft of their property, but as a partner in the boy's upbringing, someone to be welcomed into their home." * In a study of advertisements in the influential homosexual newspaper, The Advocate, Reisman found ads for a "Penetrable Boy Doll available in three provocative positions. She also found that the number of erotic boy images in each issue of The Advocate averaged 14 "The editorial board of the leading pedophile academic journal, Paidika, is dominated by prominent homosexual scholars such as San Francisco State University professor John DeCecco, who happens to edit the Journal of Homosexuality," Baldwin wrote. "The rate of homosexual versus heterosexual child sexual abuse is staggering," said Reisman, who was the principal investigator for an $800,000 Justice Department grant studying child pornography and violence. "Abel,s data of 150.2 boys abused per male homosexual offender finds no equal (yet) in heterosexual violations of 19.8 girl So a number of points. 1. It certainly is standard parlance to identify pedophiles as homosexual or heterosexual. 2. Nambla absolutely is a homosexual pedophilia group. 3. The homosexual movement has Just as significsnt.. If not more so problem with pedophilia as the cath church. In fact the incidence of pedophilia among homosexuals is greater than the incidence of pedophilia in Catholic priests. I don't condemn homosexuals because of it. But I do condemn your hypocritical standard in attacking the Catholic church. Judith Reisman is a right wing extremist, whose views on sex and sexuality have been absolutely trashed when they were reviewed, and Regents university is an evangelical school that among other things, grants PHd's in creation science and teaches that evolution is myth qed..... BTW, pedophiles are considered bisexual because most pedophiles are attracted to young children regardless of sex, and that is a fact.

PeonForHer -> RE: Catholic church STILL aiding and abetting phedophiles (4/20/2014 6:13:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: njlauren as if they are perfect and can't be criticized, or worse, that an organization we expect to be a moral guardian acts more like the Nixon white house. Arguably a lot worse than that. To recall, paedophiles are generally considered to be so low that once they've been clapped into jail even other prisoners beat them up out of disgust.

njlauren -> RE: Catholic church STILL aiding and abetting phedophiles (4/20/2014 7:35:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux I dispute your characterization that there are tens of thousands of cases. According to the Church's own figures: "About 4 percent of U.S. priests ministering from 1950 to 2002 were accused of sex abuse with a minor, according to the first comprehensive national study of the issue.The study said that 4,392 clergymen—almost all priests—were accused of abusing 10,667 people, with 75 percent of the incidents taking place between 1960 and 1984." https://www.americancatholic.org/news/clergysexabuse/johnjaycns.asp So there more than ten thousand cases of abuse in the USA alone prior to 2002. The international figure is harder to assess accurately but just one example will give an accurate indication of extent of clerical sexual abuse of minors. In a partial audit of abuse in Ireland, "1,933 people raised allegations of abuse against 796 religious"^. The norm in these cases is for multiple incidents of abuse and multiple abusees to each perpetrator. It is also the norm that the number of reported cases is far lower than the number of actual cases. If we add to the US figure the numbers of cases internationally and the cases in the USA since 2002, it is accurate to express that total in "tens of thousands". No, actually allegations of sexual abuse are not actually cases of sexual abuse. Just like the democratic icon Al Sharpton (you know, the (incompetent, wannabee) drug dealer) making allegations of rape, only to be proven that gee - it never happened. Furthermore to make the allegations that there are tens of thousands of cases - the inference is that it is more than 2 tens of thousands. It makes it sound like its fifty or sixty thousands. 10000 is not tens of thousands. So, you are admitting you are wrong. And I have yet to hear a condemnation for you for the millions of cases of muslim pedophilia. Not one shred of outrage? Why is that tweak? Nice try, but this tactic is bullshit. Even let's assume there are millions of cases of pedophilia in the Muslim world (and be careful, in some muslim countries, as used to be common in the west, girls as young as 11 or 12 are married off...and before getting all high and mighty, your precious church used to marry child brides all the time). Anyway, let's assume that is true..what does that have to do with the Catholic Church? There are something like 2 billion Christians in the world today, how many pedophiles do you think are Christian? The point being, the "muslim pedophiles" or "Christian" pedophiles don't matter, because what we are talking about is what an organized church, the RC, did or didn't do when its clergy committed the horrible crime of child abuse..we aren't talking about Catholic pedophiles, we are talking about pedophiles who are part of the clergy of the church, and their bosses, involved, big difference. If Timmy O'reilly of Boston is a pedophile, he is a pedophile that happens to be Catholic, it has nothing to do with the church or the vatican, any more than when Abdul Al Assan is a pedophile, it has to do with any mosque or Iman or whatever (those names are made up, in case some jackwad on here tries to say "you lie, there is no pedophile called Timmy O'Reilly". We are talking about abuse done by the church's own clergy and the equally horrid way the hierarchy covered it up. For one thing, as horrible as any pedophile is, when a priest does it, as the church has learned, the impact is much, much worse, people trusted priests, now most Catholics I know won't let kid be with a priest, they won't trust them to lead a kids retreat, and they look at all of them as jaundiced, and when the diocese assigns a new priest, they wonder if the guy is clean or not, something no one would think of. Worse, for an organization that claims moral righteousness, that their teachings on morality are the cat's meow, that denigrates gays or 'sexual licentiousness', to say those things then act like they have undermines the very authority they claim to have, how can you claim to know what moral truth is when you act like a common politician or corporation trying to sweep dirty under the rug? How do you preach that Christ taught the dignity of all, that women and children were blessed by God, then as the Bishops did, put a creep like Geoghan back into the saddle time and again, until he molested several hundred victims? Worse, how can the Vatican, which has absolute power over the Bishops and Cardinal, not sack those responsible for these horrors? Cardinal Law, who damn nearly took down the Diocese of Boston (and who only was forced to leave office by his old buddy, JPII, when those who salvaged the diocese' finances told JPII they wouldn't do it until Law was removed, that is how bad his crimes were), ended up with a nice cushy sinecure in Rome, and almost no Bishops accused of covering this crap up paid the price, the guy in Philadelphia who claimed there were no pedophile priests in the saddle, when a grand jury found credible claims against 50 of them and that had evidence the Bishop knew about it, faced no sanctions. And yes, the Vatican still doesn't get it, rules don't mean jack shit unless there is accountability for breaking those rules, for committing moral sins against Catholics and their families. The guy who is the Bishop of KC was convicted (not by a jury, but by a judge, mind you) of violating the rules requiring reporting suspected child molesting priests and covering up evidence of said crimes, and to this day, that guy is still the Bishop. The Bishops know there is no teeth to the rules, they know that the hierarchy will look the other way, and it is why incidents continue to occur, more than 10 years after the shit hit the fan. In large parts of the Catholic world, in Africa especially, the church basically used its power to make it criminal for people to make claims of abuse, they basically say "there is no abuse", and the government, because those places are medieval with the tie between church and state, helps them cover up. In Ireland, law enforcement helped the church cover up abuses, and if it weren't for the reverence the Irish hold for the church, a lot of cops and prosecutors would be in jail, but the damage was done. Put it this way, last thing I read said that if you sum up the total number of abuse cases in Ireland, not just pedophiles but abuse of unwed mothers, the horrid treatment of orphans in orphanages, abuse of boys in church run schools, the total number of incidents is greater than in the US, and Ireland has 1/10th the population of the US. To argue that the church did nothing wrong is to ignore the fact that the abuse was allowed to go on, that Bishops and others covered it up and still do, and the law that vatican drafted were basically toothless because there are no sanctions. It is like having speed limits on roads and having there be no fine or points on the license for doing so, you might as well not have them.

njlauren -> RE: Catholic church STILL aiding and abetting phedophiles (4/20/2014 7:41:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux My apologies for the lost posts. Catholic church STILL aiding and abetting phedophiles - 4/18/2014 3:55:30 PM Phydeux quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel quote: ORIGINAL: Phydux I gave as an example of that the fact that there are literally millions of cases of pedophilia in the Muslim world. In fact more than a million cases in Afghanistan alone. Ie 100 times the scandal in the Catholic chirch... and this leads to not a shred of outrage. quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux So I'll say it again: I am a appalled by errors the Catholic Church has made. And I am just as appalled at the blatant bigoted and repulsive posts by you, gotsteel. And others. Errors promoting a priest for raping a baby is more than an error. And you've spoken about priests and bishops but what about the previous pedo-pope? He should be brought to justice right? Sorry champ I'm far more interested in talking about According to the study, "Archives of Sexual Behavior," some 86 percent of pedophiles described themselves as homosexual or bisexual. Also, the study found, the number of teenage male prostitutes who identify as homosexuals has risen from 10 percent to 60 percent in the past 15 years. * In 1995 the homosexual magazine "Guide" said, "We can be proud that the gay movement has been home to the few voices who have had the courage to say out loud that children are naturally sexual" and "deserve the right to sexual expression with whoever they choose. " The article went on to say: "Instead of fearing being labeled pedophiles, we must proudly proclaim that sex is good, including children's sexuality we must do it for the children's sake." Child molestation and pedophilia occur far more commonly among homosexuals than among heterosexuals on a per capita basis, according to a new study. In her thesis also written for the Regent University Law Review Reisman cited psychologist Eugene Abel, whose research found that homosexuals "sexually molest young boys with an incidence that is occurring from five times greater than the molestation of girls. " Abel also found that non-incarcerated "child molesters admitted from 23.4 to 281.7 acts per offender whose targets were males." "The rate of homosexual versus heterosexual child sexual abuse is staggering," said Reisman, who was the principal investigator for an $800,000 Justice Department grant studying child pornography and violence. "Abel,s data of 150.2 boys abused per male homosexual offender finds no equal (yet) in heterosexual violations of 19.8 girls." Gay press promotes sex with children Baldwin says his research not only "confirms that homosexuals molest children at a rate vastly higher than heterosexuals," but it found that "the mainstream homosexual culture" even "commonly promotes sex with children." "The editorial board of the leading pedophile academic journal, Paidika, is dominated by prominent homosexual scholars such as San Francisco State University professor John DeCecco, who happens to edit the Journal of Homosexuality," Baldwin wrote. During his research, he also found: * The Journal of Homosexuality recently published a special double-issue entitled, "Male Intergenerational Intimacy," containing many articles portraying sex between men and minor boys as loving relationships. One article said parents should look upon the pedophile who loves their son "not as a rival or competitor, not as a theft of their property, but as a partner in the boy's upbringing, someone to be welcomed into their home." * In a study of advertisements in the influential homosexual newspaper, The Advocate, Reisman found ads for a "Penetrable Boy Doll available in three provocative positions. She also found that the number of erotic boy images in each issue of The Advocate averaged 14 "The editorial board of the leading pedophile academic journal, Paidika, is dominated by prominent homosexual scholars such as San Francisco State University professor John DeCecco, who happens to edit the Journal of Homosexuality," Baldwin wrote. "The rate of homosexual versus heterosexual child sexual abuse is staggering," said Reisman, who was the principal investigator for an $800,000 Justice Department grant studying child pornography and violence. "Abel,s data of 150.2 boys abused per male homosexual offender finds no equal (yet) in heterosexual violations of 19.8 girl So a number of points. 1. It certainly is standard parlance to identify pedophiles as homosexual or heterosexual. 2. Nambla absolutely is a homosexual pedophilia group. 3. The homosexual movement has Just as significsnt.. If not more so problem with pedophilia as the cath church. In fact the incidence of pedophilia among homosexuals is greater than the incidence of pedophilia in Catholic priests. I don't condemn homosexuals because of it. But I do condemn your hypocritical standard in attacking the Catholic church. No response eh Getsteel? Don' suppose you have any answer to the Cantor study that says that males the are pedofiliac with female children are to high degrees cases of incest. Or where is says that the rate of pedophilia among homosexual men is in the range of 5 times more common than in heterosexual men. So. If you really want to be offended about pedophilia - a response I completely agree with - then perhaps you should be targeting your offense more appropriately at muslims and homosexuals. But I doubt you have the guts. Your sources are bullshit, basically. Besides the fact that Judith Reisman was long ago unmasked for what she is, an evangelical Christian whose 'research' is basically just throwing out anti gay propoganda, and her studies, paid for by the Bush administration (John Ashcroft, the guy who was too busy putting fig leaves on statues naughty bits to pay attention to warnings of terrorism), were so shoddy no peer reviewer journal would print them, and weekly worldnut news, which is to news what the weekly world news was to journalism, is so far out there that if they get something right people think the apocalypse is coming. As far as gay men being pedophiles, every legitimate sexual study has shown that while the overwhelming majority of pedophiles are men, most of them are heterosexual in their regular sexuality, but they have a fetish for young kids, and generally it is either boys or girls, because young kids are asexual, and what attracts them in the first place is the kid is pre adolescent.

njlauren -> RE: Catholic church STILL aiding and abetting phedophiles (4/20/2014 7:56:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle Denial is a strong candidate. There is ample evidence of denial exhibited by those who are defending the Catholic Church's role in the clericial sexual abuse crisis throughout this thread. See Phydeaux's posts #52 and 64 for instance. Theses posts are so sad and pathetic they barely qualify as sophistry and pretty poor sophistry at that. There is still no defence to the charge that the Church engaged in a criminal conspiracy to hide the crimes and criminals who carried out the child rapes, to protect them from legal prosecution. A far more honest and moral course would be to admit the extent and seriousness of the crisis, and to ask forgiveness after putting the interests of those abused first. But it seems that apologists for the Church are far more interested in disputing the extent and seriousness of the crisis, in blame shifting, in thoroughly reprehensible attempts to malign gays and others and in abusing those who dare to expose the facts and magnitude of the Church's appalling behaviour. This indicates that there is no remorse, that there is no change of heart, and perhaps saddest of all, that no lessons have been learnt from the entire sordid story. In general, the Catholic who defend the church, come up with the following excuses: -The church thought that pedophile priests could be treated and be safe, and were told that by experts. The reality is they sought out someone who claimed he could cure them, they sought out the answer they wanted, when for more than 40 years sexual counselors and psychiatrists have known that pedophiles cannot be cure, that it is like alcoholism in the sense that allowing a pedophile to be around children is a no win situation.The therapst I worked with on my gender issues is an expert both on abuse and on sexual issues, and she said that they knew that as far back as the 1960's, that even things like castration and depo provera couldn't stop the obsession with kids, and that was taking out their sex drive completely. -The numbers of priests accused of abuse was a small percent of the total. True, but it leaves out that priests were allowed to go back into the saddle time and again, the priests like Geoghan abused hundreds of kids at different parishes. -Abuse happens in schools, and why aren't people upset about that? Which is a variation on the old kids line "but mom, Johnny does that too, so it isn't so bad"....first of all, when it happens in schools and they get caught, the perp is taken out of the classroom and if convicted , loses their license to teach, and if someone covered for them, they would face criminal proscution as well as losing their job. Compare that to the church's response, that to this day still has no teeth. -"It is only in places like the US, with sexual liberation and gay rights, that this abuse happened, it is the fault of society". Church tried this one early on in the crisis, only problem was that very conservative Catholic countries, like Ireland, had even worse cases of abuse than the US, and it is likely the same is true in Poland, only because of the power of the church, the whole thing has been covered up, and you can face serious fines and jail time for defaming the church if you publish stories about abuse or the Church's actions in those cases. -"It was all because of the Sexual revolution, where everything goes". Only problem with that is cases have been documented back in the 1930's-1950's, before the sexual revolution...not to mention going back in history, reading the writings of the church through the centuries, do you hear not infrequent mention of children being abused, and the church had on its books laws that would condemn clergy to death if caught having sex with children...if it din't exist, why did they have laws? Basically, they are trying to divert the very real blame and moral failings of the church by claiming that the church is only being attacked because everyone hates Catholics, which is pulling the victim card. The bloated sack of shit who is head of the Catholic league is famous for that, criticize the church for its actions, and it is immediately Catholic Bashing. Through every step of the unfolding scandal, the apologists come up with excuse and misdirections to try and cover for the church, and in the end what it looks like is that Catholics must be a group of hard hearted bastards who don't care about children and live in some sort of medieval fantasy that their church is perfect and how dare anyone criticize it. That isn't true, many Catholics are outraged and have lost trust in the church and its leadership, despite claims to the contrary, attendance at mass is dropping sharply and many of those who remain in the church do so for cultural reasons, not because they trust the church the way their predecessors did, they definitely no longer look at the Bishops as being particularly wise or even moral, lot of the Catholics I know like their local church, like the priest and think the local Bishop is a figurehead, to publicly acknowledge but in private shake their head at and ignore anything he says.

njlauren -> RE: Catholic church STILL aiding and abetting phedophiles (4/20/2014 7:59:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: njlauren as if they are perfect and can't be criticized, or worse, that an organization we expect to be a moral guardian acts more like the Nixon white house. Arguably a lot worse than that. To recall, paedophiles are generally considered to be so low that once they've been clapped into jail even other prisoners beat them up out of disgust. They generally kill them, usually after giving them a dose of their own medicine. These are men, often violent criminals who have done horrible things, but mention someone hurt kids, and they will perform street justice on them, and the guards and such aren't likely to do much.

GotSteel -> RE: Catholic church STILL aiding and abetting phedophiles (4/20/2014 8:06:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: njlauren If Timmy O'reilly of Boston is a pedophile, he is a pedophile that happens to be Catholic, it has nothing to do with the church or the vatican, any more than when Abdul Al Assan is a pedophile, it has to do with any mosque or Iman or whatever (those names are made up, in case some jackwad on here tries to say "you lie, there is no pedophile called Timmy O'Reilly". I think he's talking about pedophilia and the abuse of women as cultural norms aided to various extents by various governments making for some of the most horrendous human rights abuses not just pedophiles who happen to be muslim. quote: ORIGINAL: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/31/world/asia/31flogging.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 The two Afghan girls had every reason to expect the law would be on their side when a policeman at a checkpoint stopped the bus they were in. Disguised in boys’ clothes, the girls, ages 13 and 14, had been fleeing for two days along rutted roads and over mountain passes to escape their illegal, forced marriages to much older men, and now they had made it to relatively liberal Herat Province. Instead, the police officer spotted them as girls, ignored their pleas and promptly sent them back to their remote village in Ghor Province. There they were publicly and viciously flogged for daring to run away from their husbands.

thishereboi -> RE: Catholic church STILL aiding and abetting phedophiles (4/21/2014 6:06:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi I didn't notice anyone defending what the church has done. I think she's referring to arguments like this, claiming the fallacy of relative privation. quote: ORIGINAL: Phydeaux So. If you really want to be offended about pedophilia - a response I completely agree with - then perhaps you should be targeting your offense more appropriately at muslims and homosexuals. To characterize arguments that we should ignore the Catholic Churches massive efforts to aid pedophiles because look over there as defending what the church has done is understandable. I certainly wouldn't call it lying. I suppose she might have read it that way. I took it more along the lines of why are you always focusing on one group and ignoring the others who do the same thing.

GotSteel -> RE: Catholic church STILL aiding and abetting phedophiles (4/21/2014 3:11:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi I took it more along the lines of why are you always focusing on one group and ignoring the others who do the same thing. The assumption being used to try and pressure us into shutting up of course being that we are "ignoring" the others. An assumption which at least for me is baseless. I've been raising awareness about human rights abuses in Scientology and Islam since well before I ever opened my mouth about Christianity's issues.

Kirata -> RE: Catholic church STILL aiding and abetting phedophiles (4/21/2014 4:00:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel I've been raising awareness about human rights abuses in Scientology and Islam since well before I ever opened my mouth about Christianity's issues. Oddly enough, though, a search for "human rights" under your nick produces only one result, and while "pedophilia" returns 14 records, in neither case do any of those posts have anything whatsoever to do with either Scientology or Islam. Probably a flaw with the Search function. K.

DomKen -> RE: Catholic church STILL aiding and abetting phedophiles (4/21/2014 4:22:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel I've been raising awareness about human rights abuses in Scientology and Islam since well before I ever opened my mouth about Christianity's issues. Oddly enough, though, a search for "human rights" under your nick produces only one result, and while "pedophilia" returns 14 records, in neither case do any of those posts have anything whatsoever to do with either Scientology or Islam. Probably a flaw with the Search function. K. Or shockingly his activity might not be limited to the CC forum.

dcnovice -> RE: Catholic church STILL aiding and abetting phedophiles (4/21/2014 5:55:01 PM)
quote: Oddly enough, though, a search for "human rights" under your nick produces only one result, and while "pedophilia" returns 14 records, in neither case do any of those posts have anything whatsoever to do with either Scientology or Islam. Hijack/deflection 1, Topic 0

PeonForHer -> RE: Catholic church STILL aiding and abetting phedophiles (4/21/2014 6:05:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice quote: Oddly enough, though, a search for "human rights" under your nick produces only one result, and while "pedophilia" returns 14 records, in neither case do any of those posts have anything whatsoever to do with either Scientology or Islam. Hijack/deflection 1, Topic 0 Yep, I'm afraid so. I think we need to get this in proportion. This is about an institution that has enjoyed massive power, prestige, influence and respect in the west for over a thousand years. It's not like any other institution in those regards. It's difficult to overstate just how much the Catholic church has fucked up with this issue.

Kirata -> RE: Catholic church STILL aiding and abetting phedophiles (4/21/2014 11:16:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice Hijack/deflection 1, Topic 0 I think your count is off. Mine wasn't the first observation of its kind. And by analogy, outrage over Israel's treatment of the Palestinians would be similarly unconvincing coming from a rabid anti-semite. Child abuse is a serious issue. The same thing, with same pattern of "mobile molesters," is happening in our schools. But, of course, the topic here isn't really child abuse. K.

DomKen -> RE: Catholic church STILL aiding and abetting phedophiles (4/22/2014 6:20:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice Hijack/deflection 1, Topic 0 I think your count is off. Mine wasn't the first observation of its kind. And by analogy, outrage over Israel's treatment of the Palestinians would be similarly unconvincing coming from a rabid anti-semite. Child abuse is a serious issue. The same thing, with same pattern of "mobile molesters," is happening in our schools. But, of course, the topic here isn't really child abuse. K. The story you linked wasn't about tens of thousands of children molested by teachers over decades it was about a few teens molested by one teacher. There was no showing that the problem rose to the same level as what went on in the catholic church.

cloudboy -> RE: Catholic church STILL aiding and abetting phedophiles (4/22/2014 6:43:03 AM)
quote: Your sources are bullshit, basically. If anything, I think this thread has exposed Phydeaux more than any other that I've read. What are we to make of someone so willfully spreading misinformation? My take away is that the cause and one's beliefs are more important than the facts.

GotSteel -> RE: Catholic church STILL aiding and abetting phedophiles (4/22/2014 8:12:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice Hijack/deflection 1, Topic 0 shrug We're talking about something that's indefensible so of course those trying to defend it will have to resort to trolling.

fucktoyprincess -> RE: Catholic church STILL aiding and abetting phedophiles (4/22/2014 2:12:18 PM)
Well, I guess the rule is designed to ensure they can pursue things internally (without police interference). The problem with this is that self-policing didn't work so well in the past, so it's not clear why, or how exactly, it would work now. Of course, as we know, having the police involved does not necessarily result in a better outcome (witness college rape cases where local police seem to go out of their way to protect, in particular, college athletes http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04/16/sports/errors-in-inquiry-on-rape-allegations-against-fsu-jameis-winston.html) There is nothing new under the sun. Another example of how the powerful continue to prey on the weak. I keep waiting for the weak to get upset enough to actually do something meaningful to shift the equation. The only way an institution will make changes (whether it is the church or a college, etc.) is if it starts to cost them too much money to do otherwise. Morality? I see you are making the assumption that a religious institution is somehow more accountable on this dimension. Theoretically it would make sense, but I have not been witness to the closer tie between morality and religion than between morality and any other institution. The sooner people realize that something like the Catholic church is just another institution, and is not deserving of greater respect or protection simply because it is religious, the better off people will be. All institutions need to be held to some standards. And I would think basic application of the LAW within their communities would be one. Those who "support your church" ought to reflect on exactly what it is that one is supporting. Because it appears morality may not always be part of the equation. And if that is the case, I see no reason why a religious organization should be above the man-made laws that are in place to protect people. I do not see how answering to the "higher" law of god is actually creating a moral situation here - and obviously it is not. Sometimes man-made rules are, in fact, superior. Perhaps the bishops should consider abiding by the LAW instead of simply satisfying their religious duties. Because it appears that satisfying their religious duties holds them to a LESSER standard on this issue than it does people like social workers and teachers. Who would like to defend them on the grounds that the religious hierarchy of god entitles them to simply ignore the law? [sm=2cents.gif]

tweakabelle -> RE: Catholic church STILL aiding and abetting phedophiles (4/23/2014 12:06:58 AM)
Your incisive post prompts the question: When does a religious/moral institution cease to be a religious/moral institution through moral depravity? When we consider the Catholic Church's response to the sexual abuse crisis, it is abundantly clear that the Catholic Church engaged in morally depraved behaviour in many countries over many decades. There is no need for me to detail this behaviour again - it has been descibed many times through out this thread. Suffice to say that had any of us as individuals behaved in the same manner as the Church, we would have been locked up years ago for multiple criminal transgressions ( and quite rightly so ). At some point persistent morally depraved behaviour becomes so entrenched that the institution in question ceases to have any claim to morality or moral authority. Has the Catholic Church crossed this line? Has the behaviour of the Church, both as an institution and in the behaviour of its clergy, hierarchy and other agents been so reprehensible that the Church has lost all and any claim it may have had to moral authority and leadership? Has the Church become just another bureaucratic institution more concerned with its own welfare and power/authority than any other consideration(s)? And if so, is there a way back for the Church?

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