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RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Par... - 4/18/2014 2:49:03 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

FR

3 groups with "progressive" in the name were denied tax exempt status. None of them were delayed exempt status for over a year.

Yeah, progressive groups were listed, but none were delayed.

and no conservative groups were actually denied tax exempt status. So this comes down to whining about how long it took to get a status that the law flatly states these groups should not have gotten at all.

(in reply to subrob1967)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Par... - 4/18/2014 6:29:05 AM   
Phydeaux


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

It's been known for well over a year that groups from both sides were targeted.

It is wrong to target groups, and it has been known that the vast majority
of groups targeted were conservative.
If you read the emails you would know that they were discussing
DOJ cooking up false accusations against conservatives so that IRS
could "investigate" them.

Actually it is correct to target political groups since the status is specifically not meant for them. I know I've explained this to you before.

actually you're just wrong
I provided an email for Lois learner admits that the group's targeted were tea party groups

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Par... - 4/18/2014 6:38:03 AM   
mnottertail


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Ah, so the one under indictment is the codex of the truth here, so she targeted them. Not Obama, not Holder, not Reid, not anyone but the nutsacker she is, and was appointed by W, yanno. Was that in the email?

The statement that 'I cannot confirm that the other side was targeted', is not an admission that only nutsackers were targeted.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Par... - 4/18/2014 6:38:21 AM   
Phydeaux


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
It's been known for well over a year that groups from both sides were targeted.

Sorry Ken, but as usual, you're wrong about the facts.


From your link:
    quote:

    The Treasury inspector general's office said Thursday that while the Internal Revenue Service screened both progressive and conservative groups between 2010 and 2012, the latter faced more scrutiny.



Groups from both sides were targeted (what Ken stated).

Conservative groups faced more scrutiny. Some might gloss over that by noting (correctly) that both sides were targeted, and that more liberal groups were denied status.

All applications should be scrutinized equally, regardless of which way they lean politically. Neither side should be "targeted." That conservative groups were "targeted" and most still were granted status seems to show that the increased scrutiny wasn't necessary.

I think the bigger issue was that the application process was longer than it should have been. It's possible that was the entire purpose, too. Even if granting status is still done, making it more difficult for one group over another for subjective reasons is wrong. That's what seems to be what happened.

Ken was correct, as difficult as that might be to admit (it just seems so wrong because it's so rare).



Actually in this case all political groups should be targeted since this tax status specifically excludes political groups.



clearly once again you are wrong

the IRS did not deny applications
rather they just sat on them long enough so they could not be active in the political arena for 3 years

and eventually the groups were predominantly approved ergo your logic is wrong.

what we have here is democratic members of Congress directing a democratic appointee to investigate political opponents and coordinating the prosecution with democratic Department of Justice

funny how you don't think this is a breach of law

and then you have Obama and others of the administration lying both to the press and under congressional appearance which is also illegal


and yet there is for you no story herewonder why that is

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Par... - 4/18/2014 6:39:54 AM   
mnottertail


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because there is no proof of even the slightest kind of these nutsacker hallucinations.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 4/18/2014 6:40:20 AM >


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Par... - 4/18/2014 6:43:24 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
It's been known for well over a year that groups from both sides were targeted.

Sorry Ken, but as usual, you're wrong about the facts.

From your link:
    quote:

    The Treasury inspector general's office said Thursday that while the Internal Revenue Service screened both progressive and conservative groups between 2010 and 2012, the latter faced more scrutiny.

Groups from both sides were targeted (what Ken stated).
Conservative groups faced more scrutiny. Some might gloss over that by noting (correctly) that both sides were targeted, and that more liberal groups were denied status.
All applications should be scrutinized equally, regardless of which way they lean politically. Neither side should be "targeted." That conservative groups were "targeted" and most still were granted status seems to show that the increased scrutiny wasn't necessary.
I think the bigger issue was that the application process was longer than it should have been. It's possible that was the entire purpose, too. Even if granting status is still done, making it more difficult for one group over another for subjective reasons is wrong. That's what seems to be what happened.
Ken was correct, as difficult as that might be to admit (it just seems so wrong because it's so rare).

Actually in this case all political groups should be targeted since this tax status specifically excludes political groups.

No, Ken. All applications should be checked into. There should be no "targeting" (wouldn't that be profiling?) of any group, Liberal, Progressive, Conservative, Libertarian, Socialist, Communist, Librarian, etc. It seems there were some groups profiled, and those groups were subject to extra scrutiny. Some were simply delayed for over a year. Regardless of which political bent the groups seemed to follow, that's wrong. If the DOJ was complicit in a scheme to give extra scrutiny to seemingly conservative groups makes it even worse. It may not have anything to do with Obama (and I don't think it does), but if the DOJ was involved, Holder is likely to be complicit, and should be held accountable.

I'll repeat, the tax status these groups were applying for is not for political groups so none of the application should have been approved at all so all of the groups should have been targeted for extra scrutiny and turned down because that is the law.


No, Ken. They should not have been targeted. That's profiling, and that's a no no. Don't you know that? Every application should be checked. Every single one. If something fishy pops up, then there should be more of an investigation. Putting together a list of words that will provoke extra investigation isn't applying laws equally.

And, working with the DoJ to trump up bullshit reasons for extra investigation isn't applying the laws equally, either.

Shouldn't the eyes of justice be blind?



_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Par... - 4/18/2014 6:45:09 AM   
DesideriScuri


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Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
the IRS did not deny applications
rather they just sat on them long enough so they could not be active in the political arena for 3 years
and eventually the groups were predominantly approved ergo your logic is wrong.
what we have here is democratic members of Congress directing a democratic appointee to investigate political opponents and coordinating the prosecution with democratic Department of Justice
funny how you don't think this is a breach of law
and then you have Obama and others of the administration lying both to the press and under congressional appearance which is also illegal
and yet there is for you no story herewonder why that is


Wasn't Lerner a Bush appointee?


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Par... - 4/18/2014 8:45:54 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
the IRS did not deny applications
rather they just sat on them long enough so they could not be active in the political arena for 3 years
and eventually the groups were predominantly approved ergo your logic is wrong.
what we have here is democratic members of Congress directing a democratic appointee to investigate political opponents and coordinating the prosecution with democratic Department of Justice
funny how you don't think this is a breach of law
and then you have Obama and others of the administration lying both to the press and under congressional appearance which is also illegal
and yet there is for you no story herewonder why that is


Wasn't Lerner a Bush appointee?


Does it matter, if she conspired with DOJ to trump up accusations to stall groups opposed to any
party isn't that illegal regardless of who appointed her?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Par... - 4/18/2014 9:13:43 AM   
MrRodgers


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This whole debate arises out of the relief sought from [its] tax deductiblity. I say one removes this power or alleged requirement of govt. to audit the source of this money.

I say remove the tax deductibility of ALL non remedial giving i.e., non political. Church, Red Cross, Veteran's needs, the disabled, where the giving results primarily...in more giving rather than merely political or special i.e., narrow interest ideas. GIVE yes, by all means, it just can't come off your taxes.

Once that is shall we say...perfected, you eliminate this job from the govt. of going after the source searching for that benefit.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Par... - 4/18/2014 9:24:19 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
the IRS did not deny applications
rather they just sat on them long enough so they could not be active in the political arena for 3 years
and eventually the groups were predominantly approved ergo your logic is wrong.
what we have here is democratic members of Congress directing a democratic appointee to investigate political opponents and coordinating the prosecution with democratic Department of Justice
funny how you don't think this is a breach of law
and then you have Obama and others of the administration lying both to the press and under congressional appearance which is also illegal
and yet there is for you no story herewonder why that is

Wasn't Lerner a Bush appointee?

Does it matter, if she conspired with DOJ to trump up accusations to stall groups opposed to any
party isn't that illegal regardless of who appointed her?


It does matter, Bama. Phydeaux made the claim that she is a democratic appointee. I don't believe that is true, so I challenged it. Better to fight with truth on your side, isn't it?

If she was a Bush appointee, she should still be tried, and she should still be liable for whatever the proper consequence is, if she's found guilty. Better to get that little bit straight upfront rather than letting it be the thing that's grasped that causes the argument to be effectively impotent.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Par... - 4/18/2014 9:31:03 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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She was a Bush administration appointee from the federal elections commission, who moved her over to the IRS and in that spot she was in. Prior to that she was like in the DOJ. Been a government sloth since Reagan.

Shulman was a W appointee.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Par... - 4/18/2014 9:39:52 AM   
subrob1967


Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
Status: offline
FR

Bush appointed many registered Democrats, just like Clinton and Obama have appointed many registered Republicans.

No, the appointment doesn't matter, how they perform matters, and it appears that Lerner conspired with Obama's DOJ and the ranking minority committee member to affect the status of opposition political groups.

< Message edited by subrob1967 -- 4/18/2014 9:40:38 AM >


_____________________________

http://www.extra-life.org/

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Par... - 4/18/2014 9:44:53 AM   
mnottertail


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It might appear like that to the constantly conspiratorial nutsackers, but there is no proof whatsoever, and no facts that would present themselves as even slightly indicative of such nutsackerisms.

Even the convict Issa cant come up with his usual frenzied asswipe.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to subrob1967)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Par... - 4/18/2014 9:59:10 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
the IRS did not deny applications
rather they just sat on them long enough so they could not be active in the political arena for 3 years
and eventually the groups were predominantly approved ergo your logic is wrong.
what we have here is democratic members of Congress directing a democratic appointee to investigate political opponents and coordinating the prosecution with democratic Department of Justice
funny how you don't think this is a breach of law
and then you have Obama and others of the administration lying both to the press and under congressional appearance which is also illegal
and yet there is for you no story herewonder why that is

Wasn't Lerner a Bush appointee?

Does it matter, if she conspired with DOJ to trump up accusations to stall groups opposed to any
party isn't that illegal regardless of who appointed her?


It does matter, Bama. Phydeaux made the claim that she is a democratic appointee. I don't believe that is true, so I challenged it. Better to fight with truth on your side, isn't it?

If she was a Bush appointee, she should still be tried, and she should still be liable for whatever the proper consequence is, if she's found guilty. Better to get that little bit straight upfront rather than letting it be the thing that's grasped that causes the argument to be effectively impotent.


A technical inaccuracy true. But one used by the left to somehow let them use the "it's Bush's fault"
montra and to dismiss the problem.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Par... - 4/18/2014 10:03:37 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
It is mantra.

Nobody is saying it is Bushes fault. Everybody is saying, typical nutsackers, they are in it with both feet and using their 1984 doublespeak to point the blame to anyone but themselves, saying it is Obama's fault.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Par... - 4/19/2014 12:20:54 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

It's been known for well over a year that groups from both sides were targeted.


No.
It's well known that such a statement was made.
It's almost as well known that the statement was technically true but, in effect, a lie.

< Message edited by truckinslave -- 4/19/2014 12:23:59 PM >


_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Par... - 4/19/2014 3:36:47 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

It's been known for well over a year that groups from both sides were targeted.


No.
It's well known that such a statement was made.
It's almost as well known that the statement was technically true but, in effect, a lie.

WTF?
Groups from both sides got extra scrutiny and liberal groups were actually turned down while no conservative groups were. There is no way you can spin that to not be true.

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Par... - 4/19/2014 3:39:53 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux
the IRS did not deny applications
rather they just sat on them long enough so they could not be active in the political arena for 3 years
and eventually the groups were predominantly approved ergo your logic is wrong.
what we have here is democratic members of Congress directing a democratic appointee to investigate political opponents and coordinating the prosecution with democratic Department of Justice
funny how you don't think this is a breach of law
and then you have Obama and others of the administration lying both to the press and under congressional appearance which is also illegal
and yet there is for you no story herewonder why that is

Wasn't Lerner a Bush appointee?

Does it matter, if she conspired with DOJ to trump up accusations to stall groups opposed to any
party isn't that illegal regardless of who appointed her?


It does matter, Bama. Phydeaux made the claim that she is a democratic appointee. I don't believe that is true, so I challenged it. Better to fight with truth on your side, isn't it?

If she was a Bush appointee, she should still be tried, and she should still be liable for whatever the proper consequence is, if she's found guilty. Better to get that little bit straight upfront rather than letting it be the thing that's grasped that causes the argument to be effectively impotent.




Before you dispute that she is a dimocrat,

Consider this link, where she is found asking about a DC office job for Organizing for Action the outfit that replaced obama's campaign group.

http://hotair.com/archives/2014/04/09/lois-lerner-2013-e-mail-maybe-i-can-land-an-office-job-at-organizing-for-action/comment-page-1/

You might want to consider the allegations here: http://illinoisreview.typepad.com/illinoisreview/2013/06/lerner-asked-salvi-for-200000-plus-never-run-again-promise.html

Democratic appointee is possibly unfair. Her post is not subject to presidential appointment. So perhaps it is more fair to say dimocrat appointee. Or appointee who is a dimocrat.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Par... - 4/19/2014 3:40:59 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

It's been known for well over a year that groups from both sides were targeted.


No.
It's well known that such a statement was made.
It's almost as well known that the statement was technically true but, in effect, a lie.

WTF?
Groups from both sides got extra scrutiny and liberal groups were actually turned down while no conservative groups were. There is no way you can spin that to not be true.


Creditable source please?
Say, for an example, the inspector general's report? As opposed to dimocrat talking points which is EXACTLY where this canard originated.

< Message edited by Phydeaux -- 4/19/2014 3:41:33 PM >

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Par... - 4/19/2014 3:44:20 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
Do you think you could debate like a grown up?

It might make your challenges seem a bit more worth taking seriously.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 40
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