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RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Par... - 5/1/2014 3:46:06 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline 		In the meantime..

This is a pretty horrendous case of government abuse...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/george-f-will-the-heavy-hand-of-the-irs/2014/04/30/7a56ca9e-cfc5-11e3-a6b1-45c4dffb85a6_story.html

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Par... - 5/1/2014 4:46:42 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		What a godawful law. If only Reagan hadn't pushed it through.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Par... - 5/1/2014 8:44:09 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

What a godawful law. If only Reagan hadn't pushed it through.


Its not just a law. Its an administration that chooses how to prosecute it....

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Par... - 5/1/2014 8:47:44 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

What a godawful law. If only Reagan hadn't pushed it through.


Its not just a law. Its an administration that chooses how to prosecute it....

Prosecutors have been misusing it since Reagan. Your paranoia is hilarious.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Par... - 5/2/2014 6:49:31 AM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline 		Stop excusing every thing "the most transparent administration in history does". You elected Obozo on the promise to make things better.

Not target opponents like nixon.
Not use the race card for things like beer gate.
Not drop charges against black thugs guilty of voter intimidation.
Not to coverup benghazi.
Not to have the most inept rollout of a goverment program - ever.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Par... - 5/2/2014 7:18:11 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:


Not target opponents like nixon.

He hasn't done that, there is absolutely no shred of credible evidence he has done so.

quote:


Not use the race card for things like beer gate.

He hasn't done that, there is absolutely no shred of credible evidence he has done so.

quote:


Not drop charges against black thugs guilty of voter intimidation.

He hasn't done that, there is absolutely no shred of credible evidence he has done so.

quote:


Not to coverup benghazi.

He hasn't done that, there is absolutely no shred of credible evidence he has done so.

quote:


Not to have the most inept rollout of a goverment program - ever.

He hasn't done that, there is absolutely no shred of credible evidence he has done so.

(as prima facie evidence of the ineptitude of nutsacker programs and the most inept rollout of a government programs ever, please study up on WIN)

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Par... - 5/2/2014 7:22:54 AM   
Tkman117


Posts: 1353
Joined: 5/21/2012
Status: offline 		Obama sucks, not all liberals think he's amazing, get that out of your twisted little mind. He's done a lot of deplorable things, such as drone strikes and recently letting net neutrality just be struck down. But when you only have a 2 party system, you're stuck with picking the lesser of two evils. There are independents but who takes any notice of them? What the republican platform has done is create an image of insanity where they dont care about personal rights such as women reproductive health, gay marriage, keeping the economy strong (government shut down), keeping state and religion separate, and other things. They have provided no intelligent reasons for people to vote for them, all they have done is try to use fear of the unknown and of the liberals to convince people to vote for them. Both parties suck ass in the USA, and since the right wing is so extreme, it's alienating the moderates and practically FORCING them to vote for the left because the right appears so out of their mind. That is not good on a lot of levels. The democratic system shouldn't be simplified down to picking the least harmful party, it's picking the party which can progress your country further, and neither party can really do that. One is itching for war with Russia/Iran/whatever country is a hot topic atm, and the other is a bitch which rolls over and lies about past promises. Your system of democracy sucks ass, might be a good time for a revolution if you ask me because the policy makers aren't going to change the rules as long as they're in power.

< Message edited by Tkman117 -- 5/2/2014 7:25:12 AM >

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Par... - 5/2/2014 12:33:51 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Stop excusing every thing "the most transparent administration in history does". You elected Obozo on the promise to make things better.

Not target opponents like nixon.
Not use the race card for things like beer gate.
Not drop charges against black thugs guilty of voter intimidation.
Not to coverup benghazi.
Not to have the most inept rollout of a goverment program - ever.

Just making shit up I see. ODS can be treated.

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Par... - 5/3/2014 5:38:23 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

You are not free, for example to plead the fifth if someone else is charged. You are not free to plead the fifth if you've been offered immunity. You have fifth ammendment rights in order to implicate or substantiate the governments case against you.

To have fifth ammendment rights you must be in jeopardy.


While I think it's obvious Lerner etc is guilty, this is kinda incorrect. You never *have* to talk to the police, or the court. You can exercise your right not to talk anytime you want, and you don't have to justify it.

And on that topic, here's a video I think just about everyone should watch explaining why you should never talk to the police:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc‎

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Par... - 5/3/2014 8:26:38 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

You are not free, for example to plead the fifth if someone else is charged. You are not free to plead the fifth if you've been offered immunity. You have fifth ammendment rights in order to implicate or substantiate the governments case against you.

To have fifth ammendment rights you must be in jeopardy.


While I think it's obvious Lerner etc is guilty, this is kinda incorrect. You never *have* to talk to the police, or the court. You can exercise your right not to talk anytime you want, and you don't have to justify it.

And on that topic, here's a video I think just about everyone should watch explaining why you should never talk to the police:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc‎



Sorry. Wrong.

You can assert a miranda defense to not talk to the police. But a fifth ammendment pleading is different.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Par... - 5/3/2014 10:45:47 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline 		They're the same thing. In fact, the Miranda rights were the result of Miranda v. Arizona, a case in which Fifth Amendment rights were violated by not being properly explained.

And to quote a Defense Attorney (Mark Bennett) on it (out of several quotes I've seen, I'm pointing out this one just because I like the way it was put):

"In fact, a lack of interest in testifying is an excellent reason to plead the Fifth. The fact that you don’t want to rat out your friend is another. So is a desire to make the prosecutor actually work. When a witness takes the Fifth, he doesn’t have to justify it to anyone. You can take the Fifth and refuse to talk to the police and prosecutors because this is America.

That’s not just my whacky radical defense-lawyer philosophy; it’s the law. Here’s how it works: if you take the Fifth, there’s not a damn thing the prosecutor or the court can do, other than give you immunity. If you get immunity and testify, and it turns out that your testimony was in no way incriminatory — even if it becomes apparent that you were just trying to protect your buddy — there’s not a damn thing the prosecutor or the court can do about it. If you don’t get immunity and don’t testify, there’s not a damn thing the prosecutor or the court can do about it. In other words, you can’t be punished for taking the Fifth, regardless of your secret reasons for doing so."

Edit: To get on topic, I think it's obvious that Lerner plead the fifth out of a desire to not incriminate herself...but her pleading the fifth is certainly not proof or even evidence that she is guilty of anything. That is simply exercising a right that we all have.

< Message edited by Raiikun -- 5/3/2014 10:49:23 PM >

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Par... - 5/4/2014 6:21:51 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Yeah. No scandal here.

Unless you count the most politicized DOJ in history coordinating with the IRS to silence political opponents.

Tell me again why the DOJ dropped the charges against black panthers engaged in vote

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/04/16/uncovered-emails-show-lerner-talked-with-justice-about-irs-targeting/r intimidation?

Here's a lovely quote:

May 10, 2013: In an email to an aide responding to a request for information from a Washington Post reporter, Lerner admits that she “can’t confirm that there was anyone on the other side of the political spectrum” who had been targeted by the IRS

May 15, 2013: In an email from an aide to Lerner, the aide specifically mentions “Tea Party Organizations, the “Tea Party movement,” and “Tea Party Patriots” as organizations targeted by the IRS.


May 8, 2013: Lerner to Flax

I got a call today from Richard Pilger Director Elections Crimes Branch at DOJ … He wanted to know who at IRS the DOJ folk s [sic] could talk to about Sen. Whitehouse idea at the hearing that DOJ could piece together false statement cases about applicants who “lied” on their 1024s –saying they weren’t planning on doing political activity, and then turning around and making large visible political expenditures. DOJ is feeling like it needs to respond, but want to talk to the right folks at IRS to see whether there are impediments from our side and what, if any damage this might do to IRS programs.

I told him that sounded like we might need several folks from IRS…

May 9, 2013: Flax to Lerner

I think we should do it – also need to include CI [Criminal Investigation Division], which we can help coordinate. Also, we need to reach out to FEC. Does it make sense to consider including them in this or keep it separate?


DOJ: By definition....the agency defined as "The President's Attorney".

(Not what most of us believe it to be, that being...."the nations law enforcer").

The DOJ is, by definition....the Prez's attorney.

(Actually, the Attorney General is the Prez's personal attorney but....he does run the DOJ, ergo, sum).

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Par... - 5/4/2014 7:45:10 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

What a godawful law. If only Reagan hadn't pushed it through.

Thank God, problem solved, it's Reagan's fault.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Par... - 5/8/2014 5:22:07 PM   
Phydeaux


Posts: 4828
Joined: 1/4/2004
Status: offline 		Ah news out today.

10% of donors to those groups that were applying for 501c(3) and/or 501c4 were audited. In contradiction to sworn IRS testimony to congress.

As opposed to 1% of the general public.


Still defending the obama administration?

< Message edited by Phydeaux -- 5/8/2014 5:25:59 PM >

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: DOJ / IRS coordinated policy to investigate Tea Par... - 5/8/2014 6:03:25 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

In the meantime..

This is a pretty horrendous case of government abuse...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/george-f-will-the-heavy-hand-of-the-irs/2014/04/30/7a56ca9e-cfc5-11e3-a6b1-45c4dffb85a6_story.html

for many years the US forfeiture laws have been a major beef of mine and a seriously major reason to distrust the govt.. many people don't know how easily and seriously it can affect them and their lives until it happens to them.. A major incentive for these corrupt practices is that the agency/police force that seizes the cash/assets profit from that since they get to keep it (or a certain portion of it).. so they can make anything up they want as a "crime" you supposedly committed and take away what you worked your life for..

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to Phydeaux)
Profile   Post #: 95
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