Malkinius
Posts: 1814
Joined: 1/9/2004
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Tal and greetings all....
This is the reply I would have posted to this reply in the Gorean forum except that while I was writing it this post was pulled. Since it is still here I will post the reply there as well so others can see what was done. The chances of this being pulled as well look high.
Be well all....
Malkinius
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Greetings Ken....
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ORIGINAL: TheHouseOfHussey
Posted only to give a background on the questions being asked.
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"Start Of Quote"
"A Question on a Practice In Which Some People Engage - 7/6/2006 1:01:18 PM "
"Tal and greetings all....
I shouldn't do this just before I go away for a weekend, but there is something that keeps coming up time after time and mostly getting shunted aside. I will also say that the chances of flames running hot and high are pretty good.
That warning having been given....
Tal Malkinius,
If this is how you truly felt, why not be honorable and wait until after the weekend so that you can answer? I think your intention was to start a flame war.
No....the reason was it was on my mind and I didn't want to forget it while I was away. Also, by doing it this way, I could let it go for a couple of days and see where it led without my directing the thread in any with my responses. I will say that your response here is typical of the attitudes I have seen in people involved in BDSM. It is borne out by comments here and in the General BDSM thread my post was reposted on.
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I have seen in a fair number of posts in various places over the years about Masters who will not let their slaves call anyone else Master or serve anyone but themselves in any way, including something as simple as fetching food or drink. I have seen that also as being something more common in BDSM Masters than in Gorean Masters. Only the owner being called Master seems to be the norm there, or the norm among many. I have verified this with people who have been involved in the BDSM lifestyle for a decade and more as being true. Note...not true in all cases on either side.
Hmmm.........How many did you poll before making this grand assumption? Yes it is true, now just speaking for My house that My slaves are not allowed to call all men Master or Mistress without My express permission. Those titles are earned and I only allow My slaves to use them with Me or if I personally know the Man or Woman in question, they are of good character and honor. Now mind you this is real time not online crap or roleplay.
Sorry old boy....no polling....just years of observations, reading and talking with people. You do exhibit something that I have seen commented on in BDSM web sites and fits with my own observations and research. BDSM is composed of many different groups down to the individual level with everyone creating their own "thing". In contrast, Goreans have a shared ethos and traditions. Yes, I know not all Goreans share all points that we could call Gorean but there are some things we do hold in common. This is due to the books providing that common framework. A few individual groups within what is called BDSM do have such frameworks and traditions, but they are a limited part of the whole. How many different "leather" or "Old Guard" or "Marketplace" or "Story of O" type groups are out there?
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I admit to wondering why this is. On the BDSM side, it may be partly to mostly tradition. This is not the case on the Gorean side. Therefore I have asked myself why this is. I have come to a few conclusions and feel that some people probably have more than one of these reasons for behaving this way.
Back up just one minute, the title Master in the BDSM and Leather Community is a title that is earned in the BDSM and Leather Community thru service to the community, and your Leather Masters Cap is a presentation from the community to you showing honor for your service. Unlike in Gor where everyone automatically get's the honorific title of Master. (Not bashing Gor, there are alot of aspects in Gor that I appreciate and use in My daily life)
You better recheck your comments with the fact checker. Very few "Masters" in BDSM get that title because they have passed some test. Most just take it. Just like they do almost all the titles, especially the ones like "Sir" and "Lord". Sorry Ken, but the fact that a few small groups give someone a cap when they bestow the title of "Master" on them doesn't carry over to the rest of the groups and certainly does not control what other people do or call themselves.
You are correct that the reason for the title Master is not the same between the leather groups and Goreans. Goreans are called Master either by a slave to denote her status to anyone who is not slave or as a descriptor indicating that someone owns a slave. Goreans never call each other "Master So-and-so" as is common in the BDSM lifestyle. The gamer Goreans do. The BDSM Goreans do. We do not. As a quick aside, "Jarl" is not an alternate term for Master. It is never used that way in the books. Only the gamers use it that way.
We will return later to your admission that "are alot of aspects in Gor that I appreciate and use in My daily life"
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The first reason is that the Master comes from BDSM and it is just a carry-over from there. He doesn't know the Gorean traditions.
I practice 24/7, Master/slave, BDSM, Closed Poly Triad, Gor (some forms, not all of them) and I fully understand the fictional traditions from the book, I however do not agree with all of them applying to life on earth. And I am not going to get into a chest thumping debate, I am more Gorean than you are........that is childish.
The urge to comment that if you practice long enough you may eventually get it right is just too much to resist. <grins> It is good of you to admit what you are and what you are not. What you are and what your so-called slave claimed for you is many things, but the one thing you are not is Gorean. You do add, as you noted above, certain aspects of Gor to your life. That does not make you Gorean. I can not comment on the other things you claim. I neither know you nor them to the extent you do. What I do know is Gor and Goreans. For example: you can hang a crucifix on your wall, have a statue of the Madonna and St. Joseph but doing those aspects of Catholicism does not make you Catholic. You have to live according to the religion and follow its practices and tenets to be called a part of it. I was married in a Catholic church and I take my family to Mass. I participate in some parish activities and am listed as a member of the parish. I do not go to Mass because I am not Catholic nor do I pretend to be. You, in a similar fashion, take things you like from the Gor books and then concentrate your life in other directions. You do not live as a Gorean by your own admission. If you don't live something, don't call yourself a part of it.
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The second reason is that the man is so insecure in his mastery that he does not want to chance his slave serving anyone else or calling someone else Master as that would reduce whatever control over her he has and he would chance losing her.
Only a Insecure man himself would think that one up. I am very secure in owning two girls and have zero, zip, nada of a chance of loosing either of them. My girls serve who, what and when I choose for them to serve.....period.
Wrong again. I have seen many of this sort online and a few offline. My friends who are part of BDSM have told me of many of this sort. Sometimes it is because they are new and sometimes because they are weak. The weak ones often end up as the abusers who give BDSM in general one of its bad reputations.
To be a good master of slaves, a man has to be a good applied psychologist. That skill does not turn off when you stop working with a slave. It and the knowledge it takes are always there. It does help you see why people do things whether they be male or female, slave or free.
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The third possibility is that he is just a jealous and greedy asshole and wants to keep everything to himself. <grins>
Why would I want to share? I found them, I give them a home, I feed them, I purchase all of their needs for them, Including medical, dental, vision and family vacations. When I have all the burden of owning such property why should I share? Is the other Master or Mistress that would enjoy My property going to pay for their upkeep? I think not, so why should they enjoy the same privledges that I have with them? It's not selfish it is common sense.
Ok...so this one applies to you. I will not dispute you over this point.
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The fourth and last reason I will give is that he was taught that way by people who fit under the first reason and just doesn't know any better because he learned how to master a slave by playing at it online.
I have never done 24/7, M/s, BDSM, Closed Poly Triad or Gor online and never will. I prefer Real Time Relationships Of The Flesh.
I agree with that these things are best done offline. That does not change the fact that for many people, their first exposure to these things was online and that is where they learned their basics. Remember, just because something does not apply to you does not mean that it does not apply to anyone.
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From what I have observed over the years, the first and second reasons are the most common. When it comes to combinations, the first and fourth reasons seem to group together as well as the first and second. I have seen the second and third in combination and by themselves, but not that often. The second and fourth happens but with time and exposure to things such as the books seems to change to the Gorean norms.
Are there other reasons for this that you have seen? What do you think is the reason or the most common reason behind this behavior? Why do people continue to do it after learning what the common and proper Gorean practice is?
It's called running Your own homestone, there is no one and only true way. John Norman wrote the books as a form of fiction, He had no intentions of creating a lifestyle after them. Although I have read them all 3 or 4 times, and I like alot of the premise, I am going to pick and choose what works best for My household. I rather be an original instead of a cookie cutter and will not get into a chest thumping exercise of "I am more Gorean than you" or "I live the Gorean Lifestyle the one and only true way" not My style, I am going to continue to be who I am, period.
You may have a "homestone". Gorean's don't. We have Home Stones. If you are going to pretend to be Gorean, you might as well get the term right. Also, you can't run a Home Stone. Rocks don't drive very well. <grins> It seems your concept of a core Gorean cultural point comes from the online gamers. Interesting. Understanding the concept of Home Stone and how it affects other parts of the Gorean philosophies is part of the knowledge that it takes to be Gorean. It is too bad that was a part of what it takes to be a Gorean you ignored....probably along with most other things that did not involve slaves or sex. The last is just a guess but you are not the first person to respond as you have that I have dealt with. You will not be the last. You are just not as unique as you would like to believe.
I will also point out to you the Gorean concept of the "Circle of Steel". You should study not just the first aspect of it, but also the second interactive nature of it. That is what is appropriate here.
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Be well all.....
Malkinius "
I will kindly ask that You and anyone else out there to refrain from making comments about me when I am clearly not in the forums. If you have a question please be honorable and email it to Me on the other side. If you have a complaint about jezabel{KH} or tinkerbell{KH} please email Me on the other side. The personal attacks on Me and My House name are rude and show no honor. I will not get into the sqawables of slaves or the soap opra game they play here on the boards.
Master Ken
The House Of Hussey
Your subbie princess was told many times to inform you of her misbehavior. That is sufficient. If she did not inform you, then punish her. Your comment through her, if it was really your words, was to dismiss her problem behavior. If you merited such consideration, it would not have been necessary in the first place.
I must admit that you did not do as much of the "white knight" as I expected. You still did quite well at proving what you and your household are and are not. By your own words you have admitted yourself to not be Gorean. That is fine. I don't mind at all. Most people have no business trying to be Gorean. I only have a problem with people who lie when they claim to be something they later admit they are not.
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p.s. This will be posted on the other side as well, for fairness to both topics.
This is a reasonable thing. I shall also post my reply to you there as well.
Be well....
Malkinius
_____________________________
A questioner by inclination...An Auctioneer for the fun of it
http://www.HouseMalkinius.com The goal is community.
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