Voter ID is the Real Fraud

Voter ID is the Real Fraud (Full Version)

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cloudboy -> Voter ID is the Real Fraud (4/30/2014 5:37:04 PM)
ONE CANNOT REALLY ARGUE WITH THE FINDINGS BELOW: “Virtually no voter impersonation occurs in Wisconsin, and it is exceedingly unlikely that voter impersonation will become a problem in Wisconsin in the foreseeable future,” the judge wrote. “A person would have to be insane to commit voter-impersonation fraud,” he added, pointing to high costs of being prosecuted for that crime compared with the low benefits of casting one additional vote. On the other hand, the judge found that 300,000 Wisconsin voters, or 9 percent of all registered voters, lack the required ID — more than twice the margin of victory in the most recent election for governor. “A substantial number” of those voters, the judge found, are lower-income and poorly educated residents who face a “unique barrier” to getting the underlying documents needed to obtain a photo ID. Some cannot afford the $20 for a birth certificate; others must spend weeks tracking down documents at government agencies inaccessible by public transportation. Above from NYT.

cloudboy -> RE: Voter ID is the Real Fraud (5/4/2014 8:03:39 PM)
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/30/us/federal-judge-strikes-down-wisconsin-law-requiring-photo-id-at-polls.html?src=rechp&_r=0 BOOM! There it is!

jlf1961 -> RE: Voter ID is the Real Fraud (5/5/2014 4:15:49 AM)
What, exactly, is wrong with requiring a photo ID to vote? A state ID in most states is less than 20 bucks, easily obtained with birth certificate, social security card and at least one other form of identification. Besides, you need a photo ID to cash a paycheck, to fill some prescriptions, for a job (along with social security card) and other daily activities. In most states you cannot get public assistance without an ID.

thishereboi -> RE: Voter ID is the Real Fraud (5/5/2014 5:59:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 What, exactly, is wrong with requiring a photo ID to vote? A state ID in most states is less than 20 bucks, easily obtained with birth certificate, social security card and at least one other form of identification. Besides, you need a photo ID to cash a paycheck, to fill some prescriptions, for a job (along with social security card) and other daily activities. In most states you cannot get public assistance without an ID. That doesn't matter to some. I remember recently one poster admitting she thought it was a good idea until the republicans started pushing for it. Ever since then she has thought it was a bad idea. But at least she was honest about it.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Voter ID is the Real Fraud (5/5/2014 6:00:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 What, exactly, is wrong with requiring a photo ID to vote? A state ID in most states is less than 20 bucks, easily obtained with birth certificate, social security card and at least one other form of identification. Besides, you need a photo ID to cash a paycheck, to fill some prescriptions, for a job (along with social security card) and other daily activities. In most states you cannot get public assistance without an ID. There are some categories of people who may not have a birth certificate and may have a very difficult time getting one (the older you are, the more difficult it could be). The elderly may not have the $15-30 to get a birth certificate for ID req's. In most states (if not all) that have passed Voter ID laws, non-driver license ID's are free, but you still have to have the background documents. There may also be issues regarding getting to a SS office to apply. I think what is needed is a program that helps those without ID's get them (free of charge), and a program in schools (part of "government" class?) where the student applies for and gets a non-DL ID. Eventually, every citizen would have an ID that has gone through the program, and those who don't have an ID would have free help getting one. Maybe we could just accept that our overlords already know who we would vote for, so polling won't be necessary anymore? That seems reasonable. [8D]

cloudboy -> RE: Voter ID is the Real Fraud (5/5/2014 6:21:01 AM)
You know, if I didn't read up on the issue, I'd think the same way too. Read the judge's decision.

joether -> RE: Voter ID is the Real Fraud (5/5/2014 10:20:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 What, exactly, is wrong with requiring a photo ID to vote? A state ID in most states is less than 20 bucks, easily obtained with birth certificate, social security card and at least one other form of identification. Besides, you need a photo ID to cash a paycheck, to fill some prescriptions, for a job (along with social security card) and other daily activities. In most states you cannot get public assistance without an ID. WOW! I'm surprise this one is a hard one for you to understand. Its a VIOLATION of my 4th amendment rights: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." The ONLY time my photo ID can be checked is when LAW ENFORCEMENT have presented me a good enough reason to enter into my private life. The poll station workers have no right to know whether I need corrective lenses, or my driver's license number. Further, why should I be forced to PROVE MY INNOCENCE? This is the United States of America, not The Nazi States of Tea Party! If I say who I am, and where I live, that is sufficient to the poll worker. It is up to someone else to state the accusation. That either A ) I am not who I say I am, or B ) Not live where I say or live, or even a combination of 'A' and 'B'. They would have to present....EVIDENCE...to a law enforcement officer. To which one that law enforcement officer can ask for a Photo ID. And it can be refused without wrong doing (i.e. the 5th amendment). Not just that, they can say they are who they are and live where they live. Most polling stations that are not in the city generally require someone to....DRIVE...to the location. That would imply they have a driver's license on them. Yet STILL, the person would not need to show ID. Why? Because if that law enforcement officer is on the ball, they could just check the information on their smartphone or squad car. Just type in the person's name and address. Out would pop the person's photo and other relevant information. Away from the prying eyes of the accuser and accused. Would not take the law enforcement official more than 10 seconds to understand if there is fault or not. In every thread of Photo ID, not one person arguing in favor of the concepts can establish actual hard evidence, of massive wrong doing. Not even on the hundreds scale of individuals. That is because the penalty is generally pretty harsh for screwing with the system. There is not much profit to be made when the profit is very low. Which is why people steal money in the tens of thusands; it offsets the penalty in their minds. So to all us free individuals, if a Republican/Tea Party argues for Photo ID, its basically voter suppression. Since Republicans have done their homework and know when few people vote, Republicans win; when many vote, Democrats win. So they have EVERYTHING to gain with voter suppression and technicalities.

thishereboi -> RE: Voter ID is the Real Fraud (5/5/2014 12:05:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether The ONLY time my photo ID can be checked is when LAW ENFORCEMENT have presented me a good enough reason to enter into my private life. They can ask for id if you try to buy a controlled substance, they can ask for id if you want to cash a check or use a credit card. Now you can refuse to show it, but then you probably won't get what ever it was you went in for. This isn't anything new and crying about your rights won't change it.

fucktoyprincess -> RE: Voter ID is the Real Fraud (5/5/2014 12:22:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: joether The ONLY time my photo ID can be checked is when LAW ENFORCEMENT have presented me a good enough reason to enter into my private life. They can ask for id if you try to buy a controlled substance, they can ask for id if you want to cash a check or use a credit card. Now you can refuse to show it, but then you probably won't get what ever it was you went in for. This isn't anything new and crying about your rights won't change it. Voting rights (a constitutionally protected right) is NOT the same as one's ability to purchase drugs, cash a cheque or use a credit card (none of these is a constitutional right). If a person goes to a store and is unable to use their credit card this does NOT affect the outcome of an election (at least the last time I checked). If 100,000 people go to various stores and are denied the use of their credit card, this, too, will not affect the outcome of an election. But 100,000 people not being allowed to vote can actually change the outcome of an election. And that matters to everyone who believes in democracy. If you don't support the idea of democracy, just say so. I happen to believe in democracy and as currently defined in the U.S. that means (with very few exceptions) one adult, one vote. ANYTHING that tries to interfere with a person's ability to vote is an infringement of a basic fundamental Constitutional right. Given the history of race and voting in America, and given that it is the Republican party that currently supports ID laws it is quite obvious what is going on here with these laws. Comparing voting to getting prescription medication or using a credit card is a ridiculous comparison. A healthy poor person who has no need for prescription medication and who cannot get a credit card STILL has the CONSTITUTIONALLY PROTECTED RIGHT TO VOTE. You don't have to have money, the ability to drive, health insurance or any other thing in order to vote in the U.S.

Phydeaux -> RE: Voter ID is the Real Fraud (5/5/2014 12:56:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 What, exactly, is wrong with requiring a photo ID to vote? A state ID in most states is less than 20 bucks, easily obtained with birth certificate, social security card and at least one other form of identification. Besides, you need a photo ID to cash a paycheck, to fill some prescriptions, for a job (along with social security card) and other daily activities. In most states you cannot get public assistance without an ID. WOW! I'm surprise this one is a hard one for you to understand. Its a VIOLATION of my 4th amendment rights: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." The ONLY time my photo ID can be checked is when LAW ENFORCEMENT have presented me a good enough reason to enter into my private life. The poll station workers have no right to know whether I need corrective lenses, or my driver's license number. Further, why should I be forced to PROVE MY INNOCENCE? This is the United States of America, not The Nazi States of Tea Party! If I say who I am, and where I live, that is sufficient to the poll worker. It is up to someone else to state the accusation. That either A ) I am not who I say I am, or B ) Not live where I say or live, or even a combination of 'A' and 'B'. They would have to present....EVIDENCE...to a law enforcement officer. To which one that law enforcement officer can ask for a Photo ID. And it can be refused without wrong doing (i.e. the 5th amendment). Not just that, they can say they are who they are and live where they live. Most polling stations that are not in the city generally require someone to....DRIVE...to the location. That would imply they have a driver's license on them. Yet STILL, the person would not need to show ID. Why? Because if that law enforcement officer is on the ball, they could just check the information on their smartphone or squad car. Just type in the person's name and address. Out would pop the person's photo and other relevant information. Away from the prying eyes of the accuser and accused. Would not take the law enforcement official more than 10 seconds to understand if there is fault or not. In every thread of Photo ID, not one person arguing in favor of the concepts can establish actual hard evidence, of massive wrong doing. Not even on the hundreds scale of individuals. That is because the penalty is generally pretty harsh for screwing with the system. There is not much profit to be made when the profit is very low. Which is why people steal money in the tens of thusands; it offsets the penalty in their minds. So to all us free individuals, if a Republican/Tea Party argues for Photo ID, its basically voter suppression. Since Republicans have done their homework and know when few people vote, Republicans win; when many vote, Democrats win. So they have EVERYTHING to gain with voter suppression and technicalities. Except that one again you are wrong. Last year the Supreme Court found that the minor impediment of obtaining a voter Id card is less than the government's interest in ensuring a fair vote. Try reading a few supreme court cases before you rush in to provide your worthless opinion.

mnottertail -> RE: Voter ID is the Real Fraud (5/5/2014 2:08:07 PM)
Yeah, but no. That wasn't exactly what they held. You might try reading the opinions, for comprehension.

Musicmystery -> RE: Voter ID is the Real Fraud (5/5/2014 3:12:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jlf1961 What, exactly, is wrong with requiring a photo ID to vote? A state ID in most states is less than 20 bucks, easily obtained with birth certificate, social security card and at least one other form of identification. Besides, you need a photo ID to cash a paycheck, to fill some prescriptions, for a job (along with social security card) and other daily activities. In most states you cannot get public assistance without an ID. What, exactly, is wrong with solving a problem that doesn't exist? Take your time.

KYsissy -> RE: Voter ID is the Real Fraud (5/5/2014 3:15:30 PM)
Just curious if anyone knows the percentages of minorities that have a state issued ID vs other populations. Dem vs. Repubs? It would be interesting info.

thompsonx -> RE: Voter ID is the Real Fraud (5/5/2014 3:50:47 PM)
ORIGINAL: jlf1961 What, exactly, is wrong with requiring a photo ID to vote? It has been explaned to you on numerous occasions. So why the faux indignation?

thompsonx -> RE: Voter ID is the Real Fraud (5/5/2014 3:52:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery What, exactly, is wrong with solving a problem that doesn't exist? Take your time. [;)]

cloudboy -> RE: Voter ID is the Real Fraud (5/5/2014 7:37:57 PM)
I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one frustrated with his comment.

SadistDave -> RE: Voter ID is the Real Fraud (5/6/2014 2:35:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KYsissy Just curious if anyone knows the percentages of minorities that have a state issued ID vs other populations. Dem vs. Repubs? It would be interesting info. I'm not sure if this will help answer your question or not, but, but you could probably get some idea by which states are more conservative and which are more liberal. Strict photo ID in effect: Georgia, Indiana, Kansas, Tennessee, and Texas. In addition Arkansas, Mississippi, North Carolina, Wisconsin, and Virginia have strict photo ID laws that are not yet in effect. (Obviously Wisconsin is off this list for now anyway.) Photo ID in effect: Florida, Hawaii, Idaho, Louisiana, Michigan, New Hampshire, and South Dakota. In addition Alabama has a photo ID requirement not yet in effect. Strict non-photo ID in effect: Arizona, Ohio, and Virginia. Non-photo ID in effect: Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Kentucky, Missouri, Montana, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Utah, and Washington. No ID required at polling place: California, Illinois, Iowa, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Utah, Vermont, West Virginia, and Wyoming do not require ID to vote. -SD-

KYsissy -> RE: Voter ID is the Real Fraud (5/6/2014 3:33:23 AM)
I was more interested in the percentage of populations that have valid IDs. Is it roughly the same across racial groups? Could this be a big non-issue that both parties use to whip up their respective bases? “Our economy is in the tank. We’re in a national debt crisis. The progressive agenda in D.C. is not producing results. Washington politicians from both political parties can't defend their broken programs, so they have to play the shiny object game on social issues,” Carl DeMaio

thishereboi -> RE: Voter ID is the Real Fraud (5/6/2014 4:40:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: joether The ONLY time my photo ID can be checked is when LAW ENFORCEMENT have presented me a good enough reason to enter into my private life. They can ask for id if you try to buy a controlled substance, they can ask for id if you want to cash a check or use a credit card. Now you can refuse to show it, but then you probably won't get what ever it was you went in for. This isn't anything new and crying about your rights won't change it. Voting rights (a constitutionally protected right) is NOT the same as one's ability to purchase drugs, cash a cheque or use a credit card (none of these is a constitutional right). If a person goes to a store and is unable to use their credit card this does NOT affect the outcome of an election (at least the last time I checked). If 100,000 people go to various stores and are denied the use of their credit card, this, too, will not affect the outcome of an election. But 100,000 people not being allowed to vote can actually change the outcome of an election. And that matters to everyone who believes in democracy. If you don't support the idea of democracy, just say so. I happen to believe in democracy and as currently defined in the U.S. that means (with very few exceptions) one adult, one vote. ANYTHING that tries to interfere with a person's ability to vote is an infringement of a basic fundamental Constitutional right. Given the history of race and voting in America, and given that it is the Republican party that currently supports ID laws it is quite obvious what is going on here with these laws. Comparing voting to getting prescription medication or using a credit card is a ridiculous comparison. A healthy poor person who has no need for prescription medication and who cannot get a credit card STILL has the CONSTITUTIONALLY PROTECTED RIGHT TO VOTE. You don't have to have money, the ability to drive, health insurance or any other thing in order to vote in the U.S. And all that huffing and puffing has what to do with the fact that you are required to show your id in circumstances other than being pulled over by a cop? I mean it was a nice little rant and everything but it really didn't have anything to do with my comment.

thishereboi -> RE: Voter ID is the Real Fraud (5/6/2014 4:46:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KYsissy I was more interested in the percentage of populations that have valid IDs. Is it roughly the same across racial groups? Could this be a big non-issue that both parties use to whip up their respective bases? “Our economy is in the tank. We’re in a national debt crisis. The progressive agenda in D.C. is not producing results. Washington politicians from both political parties can't defend their broken programs, so they have to play the shiny object game on social issues,” Carl DeMaio If you want to collect welfare in Michigan, you have to have id. If you don't have id they will help you get it. So the percentage of welfare recipients that have id is 100%. Now that won't tell you how many minorities have them but it will tell you if the idea is to stop poor people from voting then it's not going to work well here.

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