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RE: Poverty hard limits? - 5/8/2014 9:44:33 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

the poverty level for 2014 was set at $23,850 (total yearly income) for a family of four.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States

That would mean, poverty means only making $6000 per annum. If this man does not want to improve his career, his not a worthy dom.


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RE: Poverty hard limits? - 5/8/2014 12:17:48 PM   
Spiritedsub2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

FR

If a dom is living in poverty and his sub is alot more successful in career wise than him, I don't know, as a sub, it would be pretty difficult to look up to him as a dom. And if the sub is the one nurturing and guiding him to improve in his career to make a better earnings for himself, it's just all weird. It feels like she is dominant and not the sub.


Just a curiosity, what if the man is fine with what he has and doesn't want to improve his career, would you still find it difficoult to look up to him as dom?

I met a Dom on CM who sponges off his parents (for many years) and is almost 50. He isn't doing anything to change that, so he must be content. I most definitely found it difficult, read impossible, to look up at him as a Dom.


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RE: Poverty hard limits? - 5/8/2014 1:57:30 PM   
eulero83


Posts: 1470
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

the poverty level for 2014 was set at $23,850 (total yearly income) for a family of four.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States

That would mean, poverty means only making $6000 per annum. If this man does not want to improve his career, his not a worthy dom.




I don't like to challenge menial points but in your source for a famili of 1 (aka single person) the limit is $11,670 not 6 grand.
Anyway what I meant was if he doesn't asks you for money or career advices... why should you even know how much he makes? I agree no one likes to starvate, but there are many persons that just don't care owning a lot of stuff and are fine with a roof and enough food. In your former post it looked like it was kind of a competition for you, and that you measured a person with the money he can do, or probably a male because I don't think housewives would ever be judged in the same way.

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RE: Poverty hard limits? - 5/8/2014 5:23:43 PM   
Killerangel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

I don't like to challenge menial points but in your source for a famili of 1 (aka single person) the limit is $11,670 not 6 grand.
Anyway what I meant was if he doesn't asks you for money or career advices... why should you even know how much he makes? I agree no one likes to starvate, but there are many persons that just don't care owning a lot of stuff and are fine with a roof and enough food. In your former post it looked like it was kind of a competition for you, and that you measured a person with the money he can do, or probably a male because I don't think housewives would ever be judged in the same way.


Why shouldn't she know how much a man makes if that's an important matter to her? Let the people who don't care about owning possessions and how much money one makes, make their own choices that aren't based on monetary value, and the people who find value in money and things make their own choices as well. Who cares, and why should people who find wealth important be treated like they are wrong?

People make relationship decisions based on looks, position in society, height, and many other random things, why can't they include money in their criteria if they wish to do that? Many people don't pay much attention to what others make salary wise….ok, whatever. They're entitled to do that just as those who find it important should pursue the subject however they like without being told that they shouldn't do that. It's up to the individual.

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RE: Poverty hard limits? - 5/8/2014 7:34:14 PM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

I don't like to challenge menial points but in your source for a famili of 1 (aka single person) the limit is $11,670 not 6 grand.
Anyway what I meant was if he doesn't asks you for money or career advices... why should you even know how much he makes? I agree no one likes to starvate, but there are many persons that just don't care owning a lot of stuff and are fine with a roof and enough food. In your former post it looked like it was kind of a competition for you, and that you measured a person with the money he can do, or probably a male because I don't think housewives would ever be judged in the same way.


I don't know it works in the US, but a person earning 11k per annum where I come from, would be living on the streets and starving, maybe only affording one meal a day. No way they can even have basic necessities on that. Plus in our country we have no welfare as a safety net for them.

Even if they can just afford a bed a month, which would cost him about $250 per mth, it would be like 4 bunk beds cramped into a tiny room, sharing it with 8 people, in a tiny 80 sq meter home, with 3 rooms, and 24 people living in it. How will we even ever have scenings together if he doesn't even have his own room or own place?

I need my dom to be better than me, more successful than me, stronger than me, smarter than me, this is a man who is suppose to be leading me, how can I follow him if his own life is in a mess?

But if he was going through a bad patch and have a plan to get out of this mess, and will do whatever it takes to get out of it, then he may be a worthy dom, as I will admire his drive and his determination.

Housewives and househusbands won't be judged the same way, that's why in traditional household with housewives, there is the 1950's thing, it's the one who brings in the dough that leads the relationship. We are talking about a dominant here. All the househusbands I know in my country are very submissive to their wife when she is taking care of the dough.

When a househusband divorces his wife and takes the kids, he gets alimony ya know. And point is, househusband and housewife will not be possible unless their spouse earns alot of money. Like it or not, money matters. What happens if he falls seriously ill or get into an accident, earning poverty line salary a month, who will take care of his hefty medical bills? I learn this week that USA has the most expensive medical bills in the world, that if we want to take up health insurance that covers USA hospital, we get a 100% loading, but there are no loading if we choose UK or Australia hospitals.

I guess the big question is, how many women are willing to be the Sub of their house husband that they are financially supporting? How much power can this dom possibly have over the woman he is reliant on for his dough?

That's the big question.

Now when a man makes a woman reliant on his dough, how much more power he will have over her? Just even psychologically when she realizes she is financially reliant on him would already have a certain submissive effect.

We are not talking about the worth of a human being here. All humans are worth something, but about dominant and submission.


< Message edited by Greta75 -- 5/8/2014 7:49:18 PM >

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RE: Poverty hard limits? - 5/8/2014 7:49:53 PM   
tsatske


Posts: 2037
Joined: 3/9/2007
From: Louisville, KY
Status: offline 		Greta,
I make roughly the 6K you first quoted. I do get a small amount of government substance - I get a rent controlled apartment I can afford, and I get $15 a month in food stamps. I already had med insurance but government insurance has been added on top of that once I was determined to be disabled.

I pay all my bills, including internet service and a gym membership. I don't need a man to take care of me. Money is not on my list of things I look for in a man. My main requirement is how you treat me.

I don't need to make less than my Master, though any man might have to work hard to make less than me. It's fine with me if he works in fast food, rather it's to pay the bills or because he's happy there. Just treat me right. And I'm kind of sapiosexual, so smarts is good, too.

_____________________________

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RE: Poverty hard limits? - 5/8/2014 8:00:02 PM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline 		I guess living expenses where you are at is cheaper than where I am at, considering you can afford gym membership, because where I am, a gym membership, even in the cheapest lousiest gym would already wipe out half of your annual income.

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RE: Poverty hard limits? - 5/8/2014 8:04:45 PM   
tsatske


Posts: 2037
Joined: 3/9/2007
From: Louisville, KY
Status: offline 		OMG! Who would pay $3,000 a year for a gym membership? I pay $25 a month, and my sister uses another (very nice) gym and pays less than me ($20) Her gym has massage machines and tanning beds, but mine has a swimming pool and a whirl pool, so it's a trade off. I feel mine (the Y) is more accessable to handicapped people such as myself, but hers would be fine for me, I've been a guest there with her before, there's plenty there that I can work with.

_____________________________

“If you never did you should. These things are fun and fun is good”
~Dr. Seuss quote

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RE: Poverty hard limits? - 5/8/2014 8:10:26 PM   
Greta75


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Joined: 2/6/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tsatske

OMG! Who would pay $3,000 a year for a gym membership? I pay $25 a month, and my sister uses another (very nice) gym and pays less than me ($20) Her gym has massage machines and tanning beds, but mine has a swimming pool and a whirl pool, so it's a trade off. I feel mine (the Y) is more accessable to handicapped people such as myself, but hers would be fine for me, I've been a guest there with her before, there's plenty there that I can work with.

My cousin who just graduated from uni and has his first job is paying $5k per annum for his gym membership, but that's a nicer gym.

There is no place here that charges $25 per month. More like $25 per entry and that is on offer, because it's usually $80 per entry.

We live in different worlds. Nobody could survive on your salary in my country because it's a zero welfare country and there are no safety nets from the government to help you if your earnings fall short.

Okay, there is a really crappy gym that I can think of now, that maybe only has like stationary bike and treadmills for $5 per entry. With all the luxuries in your gym, that's like my cousin's gym membership price.


< Message edited by Greta75 -- 5/8/2014 8:12:04 PM >

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RE: Poverty hard limits? - 5/8/2014 8:20:58 PM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline 		I got a question, to me, it seems that the only reason for your low earnings is because of your disability that limits you from finding a job that pays better. I mean, it's reality, I don't know what disability you have, but I think in most places in the world, it limits job options.

In this case, in the real world, your options for a life partner becomes extremely limited, as not many would accept a sub with disability limitations. So it becomes perfectly understandable why you say you would accept a man as your dom with lower earnings than you.

But if you were perfectly healthy and the sky is your limit, and you start having alot more options, first of all, you'll be making alot more money, and second of all, I believe you won't feel the same.

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RE: Poverty hard limits? - 5/9/2014 12:38:14 AM   
eulero83


Posts: 1470
Joined: 11/4/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Killerangel


quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

I don't like to challenge menial points but in your source for a famili of 1 (aka single person) the limit is $11,670 not 6 grand.
Anyway what I meant was if he doesn't asks you for money or career advices... why should you even know how much he makes? I agree no one likes to starvate, but there are many persons that just don't care owning a lot of stuff and are fine with a roof and enough food. In your former post it looked like it was kind of a competition for you, and that you measured a person with the money he can do, or probably a male because I don't think housewives would ever be judged in the same way.


Why shouldn't she know how much a man makes if that's an important matter to her? Let the people who don't care about owning possessions and how much money one makes, make their own choices that aren't based on monetary value, and the people who find value in money and things make their own choices as well. Who cares, and why should people who find wealth important be treated like they are wrong?

People make relationship decisions based on looks, position in society, height, and many other random things, why can't they include money in their criteria if they wish to do that? Many people don't pay much attention to what others make salary wise….ok, whatever. They're entitled to do that just as those who find it important should pursue the subject however they like without being told that they shouldn't do that. It's up to the individual.


I just come from a different culture, we consider income and richness a much more private matter, so asking "how much you make in a year?" during small talk in a date is one of the rudest thing you can do. Let's say you can guess someone's income from the job or the stuff he has but knowing the actual number is something that happens when living togheter.
Maybe it's also because in my country there is an almost totally public school system where you spend most of your mornings with other 19 randomly choosen kids that will become your friends, so as a child and a teen you are used to hang out and having personal connections with people of different social status.

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RE: Poverty hard limits? - 5/9/2014 12:54:32 AM   
eulero83


Posts: 1470
Joined: 11/4/2005
Status: offline 		Greta I see you live in a harder enviroment than where I live. Just remember there are many reasons a person could happen to be in poverty that are not directly connected to smartness and strongness.

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RE: Poverty hard limits? - 5/9/2014 1:09:03 AM   
Greta75


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Joined: 2/6/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83
I just come from a different culture, we consider income and richness a much more private matter, so asking "how much you make in a year?" during small talk in a date is one of the rudest thing you can do. Let's say you can guess someone's income from the job or the stuff he has but knowing the actual number is something that happens when living togheter.
Maybe it's also because in my country there is an almost totally public school system where you spend most of your mornings with other 19 randomly choosen kids that will become your friends, so as a child and a teen you are used to hang out and having personal connections with people of different social status.

I think in most culture, it is okay to ask the person what they do for a living. And then a judgement will be passed from there. Of course nobody ask about salary.
And then when you get to know a person hobbies and what they do with their free time, you get a better and better picture about their financial circumstances.
In my country, public schools are the best schools, so there is no social status, but all public schools are ranked, so there will be top grade performing public school, where most will try to get in, based on grades, but not economical background, because whether if you are in the lowest ranking school or the highest ranking school, the school fees are exactly the same price. So that's nothing to do with anything. Infact it's the lower ranking school where all the rich kids hang out, because when they are rich, they don't feel the need to have good grades, because they got their parents money anyway and don't have to work, so most poor kids are in the best schools. It's literally impossible for anybody who is willing to work hard to be in poverty line in my country. Unless of course they are suffering disability, then they will be trouble since there is no welfare.


< Message edited by Greta75 -- 5/9/2014 1:13:26 AM >

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RE: Poverty hard limits? - 5/9/2014 1:17:55 AM   
Greta75


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Joined: 2/6/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83
Greta I see you live in a harder enviroment than where I live. Just remember there are many reasons a person could happen to be in poverty that are not directly connected to smartness and strongness.

Yes one of them is disability, but it would take a special type of person to be able to be with someone like that.
It's not about how they fall, but how they choose to rise again. I don't believe anybody is truly happy living in poverty. Well..., unless it's truly by choice, like he chooses to be monk or something, then the purpose of their life is to live in poverty and need nothing and no one. Then he wouldn't be having bdsm relationship anyway.

I do expect a dominant man to have natural leadership qualities, and naturally like to be "incharge" type of person. Being a counter staff in a fast food is not a shameful job, but also not the type of job that screams dominant. Now a submissive guy in a fast food job is another story, it makes sense, he does not want to be in charge, he just wants someone else to lead him and boss him around, so fast food job is perfect. So it does say alot.

There is this other thing, like a woman who is dominant at her job may enjoy being submissive in the bedroom, and a man who is placid at his job, may enjoy power tripping in the bedroom.

But I just feel that, then being dominant is not at his core being. He just likes to role play being dominant. That doesn't feel dominant enough for me.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 5/9/2014 1:31:34 AM >

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RE: Poverty hard limits? - 5/9/2014 2:47:22 AM   
eulero83


Posts: 1470
Joined: 11/4/2005
Status: offline 		In reply to both your last posts, I see you live in a very competitive enviroment, much different from the on I live in, I can see your point I just think psicology and life in general are much more complicated. For example I almost usually find myself leading and being bossy when it comes to work, I'm very competitive and I've been a semi professional athlete in my youth, it's just I don't accept to be like that also in my affective sphere. By the way from what you wrote I assume you do not have a fast food job, but from your profile it looks like you are naturally submissive, I can perfectly relate with that, just give other people the benefit of not being defined just by what they do for a living.

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RE: Poverty hard limits? - 5/9/2014 7:34:27 AM   
Spiritedsub2


Posts: 3316
Joined: 7/18/2012
Status: offline 		No one in this thread has suggested that anyone should be defined by what they do for a living. What most of us have done is to answer the OP that yes, we have limits with regard to potential mates who live in poverty or don't work and support themselves. Income level and employment status and socioeconomic status in general are significant factors in a person's real, not fantasy, life. If you are this concerned about being rejected on one of these bases, maybe it's time to look at changing something for yourself.

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Don’t grieve. Anything you lose comes round in another form.
~ Rumi

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RE: Poverty hard limits? - 5/9/2014 7:58:25 AM   
Blonderfluff


Posts: 2253
Joined: 10/9/2013
From: Down the Shore
Status: offline 		I've read this whole thread, and I have to say a few things.

Like seeks out like, for the most part. Poverty WOULD be a hard limit for me. I don't need a rich man, but I certainly need a man that is AT LEAST my equal from a socio-economic standpoint.

I need and want to be proud of my man. I've never lived at the poverty level. I had a very nice childhood. I have always lived in upper-middle class neighborhoods. I would be very uncomfortable with a man that did not. We would just...not be a match. ( I've tried, it just becomes almost a cultural gap in communication)

It is not a judgment on where or what people do for a living. It is a simple fact that we as people first, desire someone that we can relate to on ALL levels. That means not just kink sync. It means parenting styles if you plan on having kids. It means personality compatibility. Religious compatibility ( if that is important to you) Compatibility across the board.

Which includes financial and socio-economic compatibility.

< Message edited by Blonderfluff -- 5/9/2014 7:59:56 AM >

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RE: Poverty hard limits? - 5/9/2014 8:23:47 AM   
tsatske


Posts: 2037
Joined: 3/9/2007
From: Louisville, KY
Status: offline 		Greta,
I have not always been disabled as I am now, but I never considered poverty to be a deal breaker. I did have Masters who made more than me at different times. But I have no problem with one making less than I. I don't think my disability affects my judgement of a dom or makes me 'settle'. It may rule me out for some Doms, but that is their business, and I'm fine with that. I still hold the same standards, and money has just never been one of them.

_____________________________

“If you never did you should. These things are fun and fun is good”
~Dr. Seuss quote

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RE: Poverty hard limits? - 5/9/2014 8:36:20 AM   
BecomingV


Posts: 916
Joined: 11/11/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
Now when a man makes a woman reliant on his dough, how much more power he will have over her? Just even psychologically when she realizes she is financially reliant on him would already have a certain submissive effect.


Bold ^^^ is mine.

That's something else - not submission. Dependence and fear are NOT submission.

_____________________________

Talk about loving travel!!! My BDSM journey to Switch took me to these places...
Previously known as:
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(in reply to Greta75)
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RE: Poverty hard limits? - 5/9/2014 8:52:01 AM   
eulero83


Posts: 1470
Joined: 11/4/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Spiritedsub2

No one in this thread has suggested that anyone should be defined by what they do for a living.


I was answering to this post:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
I do expect a dominant man to have natural leadership qualities, and naturally like to be "incharge" type of person. Being a counter staff in a fast food is not a shameful job, but also not the type of job that screams dominant. Now a submissive guy in a fast food job is another story, it makes sense, he does not want to be in charge, he just wants someone else to lead him and boss him around, so fast food job is perfect. So it does say alot.

There is this other thing, like a woman who is dominant at her job may enjoy being submissive in the bedroom, and a man who is placid at his job, may enjoy power tripping in the bedroom.

But I just feel that, then being dominant is not at his core being. He just likes to role play being dominant. That doesn't feel dominant enough for me.


that I think it's a simplistic view molded by the porjections of her personal needs


quote:

ORIGINAL: Spiritedsub2

If you are this concerned about being rejected on one of these bases, maybe it's time to look at changing something for yourself.



it's the other way round, I reject who is so materialistic.

(in reply to Spiritedsub2)
Profile   Post #: 60
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