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RE: Poverty hard limits? - 5/9/2014 11:30:29 PM   
Greta75


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quote:



Also I make more than he does....I am totally capable of taking care of myself...and I am in no way relying on his income. I supported myself before him and could easily do it again. Before me he was able to support himself as well.


For your info on my psyche, my x-husband always made less money than me. For 2 years of his life, I supported him 100% as he could not work. And when he finally could, he still made less than me. But that's why we had a vanilla relationship. I can never see him as dominant in such a situation, infact I'd say I wore the pants in that relationship, I had so much power in it, because I allowed him to enjoy a better lifestyle than he could if he was without me, which is fine, I loved him and everything that was mine was his, he had full access to my money. I could love a man who makes less than me, but I cannot accept him as a dominant. I'm just the kind of person who when I choose someone to love, I will take care of him no matter what. But that also makes me take on a very dominant role, so if someone wants to be my dominant, he has to be like me in that aspect.


< Message edited by Greta75 -- 5/9/2014 11:45:23 PM >

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RE: Poverty hard limits? - 5/9/2014 11:37:06 PM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83
Just let me understand you would stick with him because you commited but you would hate being with him or are there some other elements that would make you support a person you love?

I stick with him because I have chosen him as a my life mate, and I will honour my commitment. His my responsibility and I have chosen him to be my responsibility. A real relationship is not a real relationship if you only want him for good times. Your job, my job is to be there for him no matter what. I am a very loyal person and I never abandon the ones I love.

Because it's the same thing as if you choose to have a child right? Are you gonna abandon child if that child is disabled and unable to care for himself? You have chosen to have the child and you are responsible for that child for life. I see it as the same thing towards my chosen life partner. But if I was to adopt a child, would I choose one who is disabled and needs life time care? Most definitely not! Prior to commitment, you will choose someone with more less stressful circumstances for you, that's for sure.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 5/9/2014 11:40:52 PM >

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RE: Poverty hard limits? - 5/10/2014 12:10:08 AM   
LittleGirlHeart


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Status: offline 		Doesnt matter the reason. If they can not financially support themselves and not be hand to mouth all the time, or they will be that way long termish, inot interested. Been there done that, and idont care if people think that makes me shallow. I s

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RE: Poverty hard limits? - 5/10/2014 12:15:31 AM   
eulero83


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Status: offline 		greta that's actually all my point I'm just saying I don't make that selection at the door, you explained your reasons, I still do not agree with them but I can understand them. I can understand what you say about welfare, and it has to be very stressful living with that sword of damocles, but if we have such cooperation is a consequence of our culture (and religious background probably) not the other way around.

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RE: Poverty hard limits? - 5/10/2014 2:31:04 AM   
OriginalRebel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Culdron


I was the one who commented on being raised middle class, and at the end of the day it's as much manners and values as it is dollars and cents. My exhusband, who made a fine living was raised poor. He joined the military, paid for college and took up hobbies and interests that helped him with how he conducted himself. My children's father was also raised poor, he putzed around got two college degrees and lot of debt. He has the grammar and manners of his origins. While I will say I will love him forever, you can't feed your kids on that. I said it before and I'll say it again, I don't care if you have $5000, $500, $50 or $5 left on the day before payday. As long as your bills are paid and you have food on the table, your in control of you finances enough to move on to other levels of compatibility. Because here's the thing, the more you make the more bills you have, so it doesn't matter rich or poor as much as stable.


Sorry Culdron, it wasn't your comment I was referring to. What I was referring to is this;
quote:


"By Blondstuff. I need and want to be proud of my man. I've never lived at the poverty level. I had a very nice childhood. I have always lived in upper-middle class neighborhoods. I would be very uncomfortable with a man that did not. We would just...not be a match. ( I've tried, it just becomes almost a cultural gap in communication)"


Its nothing to do with the fact that Blondstuff wouldn't fit with a man she considers lower in status than herself and all to do with the fact that she named herself as 'upper middle class'. Its the sort of boasting that comes from the newer generations of middle class people. They often use words like 'upper' which is just a nonsense, to clarify just how middle class they are.

You will never hear an aristocrat talk about their status because they are comfortable with their place in society and themselves. They don't flash their money, they don't talk about money and they most certainly don't talk about class.


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RE: Poverty hard limits? - 5/10/2014 2:56:27 AM   
Blonderfluff


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Status: offline 		I was NOT referring to class. I was referring to socio-economic differences. (Btw. I am NOT the newer generation of middle class people. I'm older than you, OriginalRebel. My family USED to have vast holdings. Over a few generations, we settled comfortably into middle class). These differences reared their head more than once in previous relationships, and became points of contention. I will not deal with it again.

I have never flashed my money. I am not boasting. I mentioned money because it it very germane to THIS thread. Anyone here that knows me in real life, and has met me, can attest to the fact that I don't flash anything. Except maybe my boobs. For the right person.


Oh. And it's Blonderfluff Not Blondstuff. If you are gonna quote me, please do it correctly.

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RE: Poverty hard limits? - 5/10/2014 3:18:02 AM   
OriginalRebel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BecomingV

FR - To question the commitment to a partner should their situation change is the same whether wealth, health or kink-ability is lost. People whom commit do just that... they commit.

Of those 3, loss of wealth is the easiest to avoid. Planning, sacrifice (saving) and determination to provide and to protect... these are dominant qualities.



I don't think a person need be wealthy to be an Alpha. A Dom, depending on various factors, may be wealthy, BUT, a Dom won't be impoverished. Even when fortunes are lost, comebacks are assured for Doms. Character dictates that a Dom keep his word, which is what accepting credit is all about... (promise to pay), so credit would be available and the sub would not know a loss had occurred. A Dom's commitment to accepting responsibility means that insurance or savings exist.

If a rich Dom became a poor Dom AND lost the ability to rebuild or reinvent that which had been lost, then I'd hope that Dom had prepared his sub to step in. Was her education and networking skillset achieved? Did he ensure that her decision-making muscles were practiced all along? (An Alpha would be too insecure and competitive to encourage "independence.") A Dom makes choices which support the safety and solidity of the relationship and is not confused by ego - like Alphas are.

I've seen more Alphas than Doms here. I think that like all things great, they are also rare.

Rather than ask how bossy (needy) a guy is, it's more clear to ask how responsible he lives. That includes money issues.


I find myself agreeing with a lot of this except of course for the word 'dominant'. Let me explain.

A dominant can be anything from a player, a kinkster, an egotist, to someone who needs to feel 'Alpha' to someone. On the other hand he could be a natural leader. Not all leaders are dominant just as not all dominants are leaders, in fact I believe very few dominants are natural leaders. 'Dominant' within this lifestyle is a word snipped out of the English language and fitted to suit the BDSM/D/s enviroment. This makes every person in this lifestyle that calls themselves a dominant, a dominant and provided they have a willing partner calling them a dominant, they are generally accepted as just that.

This is why we can't start talking about what is 'real' and what isn't, except for our personal preference and that's why a piss poor man who lives in a shack is still as much a dominant (if he so wishes to be) as the man leading an empire and living in a mansion. Whilst the piss poor dominant may not live up to the expectations of many searching submissives, its unfair to say that his kinky status is inaccurate.

If you had said,

If a rich leader became a poor leader AND lost the ability to rebuild or reinvent that which had been lost, then I'd hope that leader had prepared his follower to step in. Was her education and networking skillset achieved? Did he ensure that her decision-making muscles were practiced all along? (An Alpha would be too insecure and competitive to encourage "independence.") A leader makes choices which support the safety and solidity of the relationship and is not confused by ego - like Alphas are.

You are talking about a dominant leader and not just a dominant.

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RE: Poverty hard limits? - 5/10/2014 4:31:25 AM   
lilcracker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:



Also I make more than he does....I am totally capable of taking care of myself...and I am in no way relying on his income. I supported myself before him and could easily do it again. Before me he was able to support himself as well.


For your info on my psyche, my x-husband always made less money than me. For 2 years of his life, I supported him 100% as he could not work. And when he finally could, he still made less than me. But that's why we had a vanilla relationship. I can never see him as dominant in such a situation, infact I'd say I wore the pants in that relationship, I had so much power in it, because I allowed him to enjoy a better lifestyle than he could if he was without me, which is fine, I loved him and everything that was mine was his, he had full access to my money. I could love a man who makes less than me, but I cannot accept him as a dominant. I'm just the kind of person who when I choose someone to love, I will take care of him no matter what. But that also makes me take on a very dominant role, so if someone wants to be my dominant, he has to be like me in that aspect.


So what you are really saying is unless he makes more money than you he is NOT Dominant? FYI 50 Shades was just a book...a poorly written one

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RE: Poverty hard limits? - 5/10/2014 10:41:11 AM   
DesFIP


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OriginalRebel

You will never hear an aristocrat talk about their status because they are comfortable with their place in society and themselves. They don't flash their money, they don't talk about money and they most certainly don't talk about class.



That's not germane to Americans since we don't have a class system based on heredity.
Money is how we determine class.

My father was a CEO. If you can't sit at a table including other CEOs or Exec VPs or UN Ambassadors, then you don't fit in my family. If you are served an artichoke and don't know what to do when you've never had one before, you don't fit here.

Why would I pick a partner who doesn't fit my life? I don't. Any more than I picked a partner who wasn't college educated or didn't have similar religious views. Or any of the other myriad of things that make up compatibility for me.

This is my relationship, the only one who gets to dictate what I need is me.

And going back to your aristocracy comment, how many British Dukes or Earls do you know of who have married a char woman?

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RE: Poverty hard limits? - 5/10/2014 10:58:13 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lilcracker
So what you are really saying is unless he makes more money than you he is NOT Dominant? FYI 50 Shades was just a book...a poorly written one

I am saying that I cannot respect him as a dominant. But I can respect him as a fellow human being. That's it. He can be a dominant to someone else perhaps. His not someone I can look up to. As I said, I expect a dominant to beat me in everything. Taller than me, bigger than me, Stronger than me, Better in Sports, Fitness level, Income, position at work, smarter than me, everything. I want to feel awed by his presence. And I'm very competitive in sports as well, I never peg myself against women but men, as a benchmark for improving my performance.

As for 50 Shades, the billionaire dude gave up being dominant and his bdsm kinks for the love of his life, so um...., his a poor example of a dominant. He lost control.




< Message edited by Greta75 -- 5/10/2014 11:09:40 AM >

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RE: Poverty hard limits? - 5/10/2014 11:07:50 AM   
Killerangel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OriginalRebel
<snip>
Funny thing is Greta, I see people like you as money chasers disguised under the camouflage of submission. The way you think is frankly ridiculous.


Who cares if she seems like a "money chaser" to you? People look for what is important to them, they're entitled to that. I think it's silly to discriminate against short men and yet it happens all the time, and I'd not insinuate that a woman looking for a tall man is somehow deficient in character. Let's call those "height chasers" onto the carpet for being ridiculous for letting perfectly good short men pass them by, shall we?

Interesting that the party line is that we're all supposed to be accepting of another's kink, but people's criteria for finding a mate doesn't seem to have the same hands-off blanket approach.

For the record:

- I don't really care about what a potential partner makes as long as he's not lazy and isn't a poor decision maker.
- I think people are entitled to search for a partner however works best for them, I'm not going to live with that person, what do I care what other's look for?
- I have other things that say Dominant or not to me, money isn't one of them, but if a man doesn't have the qualities or characteristics that I see as Dominant, I would never see him as Dominant. It wouldn't preclude a relationship between he and I, but it won't be a D/s relationship although it might be a long term loving relationship. I'm not necessarily looking for my next love to be Dominant, that's my choice, others are looking for that and that's their choice. For example, a switch would never register as Dominant to me although I could potentially still be in a relationship with a switch. To me, Greta makes perfect sense, she sees some things as Dominant, and at this point in her life she's looking for a Dominant. She also said the measure of a person's bank account doesn't necessarily dictate how valuable they are, or are not, to her.

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RE: Poverty hard limits? - 5/10/2014 11:53:20 AM   
OriginalRebel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

That's not germane to Americans since we don't have a class system based on heredity.
Money is how we determine class.


So you are saying that class can't be inherited ? So if you win the lotto you are suddenly a middle class person? If so, that completely contradicts what others have said on this thread.

quote:


My father was a CEO. If you can't sit at a table including other CEOs or Exec VPs or UN Ambassadors, then you don't fit in my family. If you are served an artichoke and don't know what to do when you've never had one before, you don't fit here.



Then we live in very different worlds. My farther always told me, you can tell a cultured man by how accepting he is of others worse off than himself.

quote:


Why would I pick a partner who doesn't fit my life? I don't.


And so you shouldn't. I haven't proposed that in my posts here.

quote:


Any more than I picked a partner who wasn't college educated or didn't have similar religious views. Or any of the other myriad of things that make up compatibility for me.

This is my relationship, the only one who gets to dictate what I need is me.



Yep its the same for most people.

quote:


And going back to your aristocracy comment, how many British Dukes or Earls do you know of who have married a char woman?


I thought you would never ask.

I know an elderly Lord who has just married his housekeeper and I know the prodigy of a minor royal who lives on his families trust fund and married to a woman who ran and still does run the local florists, but lets keep in mind that most of the aristocracy and gentry are rich in assets but usually income poor. Therefore, the wealthy and upper class are not always the same thing. In the UK you can be an aristocrat and still poor.




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RE: Poverty hard limits? - 5/10/2014 12:21:41 PM   
anniezz338


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: lilcracker
So what you are really saying is unless he makes more money than you he is NOT Dominant? FYI 50 Shades was just a book...a poorly written one

I am saying that I cannot respect him as a dominant. But I can respect him as a fellow human being. That's it. He can be a dominant to someone else perhaps. His not someone I can look up to. As I said, I expect a dominant to beat me in everything. Taller than me, bigger than me, Stronger than me, Better in Sports, Fitness level, Income, position at work, smarter than me, everything. I want to feel awed by his presence. And I'm very competitive in sports as well, I never peg myself against women but men, as a benchmark for improving my performance.

As for 50 Shades, the billionaire dude gave up being dominant and his bdsm kinks for the love of his life, so um...., his a poor example of a dominant. He lost control.




I don't see anything wrong with wanting all of this. Truthfully, I would too. Whether you get that or not is a crap shoot. And you may be waiting a long time.

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RE: Poverty hard limits? - 5/10/2014 1:10:00 PM   
lilcracker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: anniezz338


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: lilcracker
So what you are really saying is unless he makes more money than you he is NOT Dominant? FYI 50 Shades was just a book...a poorly written one

I am saying that I cannot respect him as a dominant. But I can respect him as a fellow human being. That's it. He can be a dominant to someone else perhaps. His not someone I can look up to. As I said, I expect a dominant to beat me in everything. Taller than me, bigger than me, Stronger than me, Better in Sports, Fitness level, Income, position at work, smarter than me, everything. I want to feel awed by his presence. And I'm very competitive in sports as well, I never peg myself against women but men, as a benchmark for improving my performance.

As for 50 Shades, the billionaire dude gave up being dominant and his bdsm kinks for the love of his life, so um...., his a poor example of a dominant. He lost control.




I don't see anything wrong with wanting all of this. Truthfully, I would too. Whether you get that or not is a crap shoot. And you may be waiting a long time.

Exactly annie---I sometimes think wouldn't it be great to have a rich guy but on the other hand...he may not have all the qualities that makes me love my partner so much. My partner is bigger than me...much stronger...and in games he beats me nearly every time...he can add math figures faster and more accurately than I can....science I am lost but he is a whiz....but I am heads above him when it comes to English and History. Sometimes you got to bend a little.

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RE: Poverty hard limits? - 5/10/2014 8:16:58 PM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: anniezz338
I don't see anything wrong with wanting all of this. Truthfully, I would too. Whether you get that or not is a crap shoot. And you may be waiting a long time.

I don't think it's hard to find a man who makes more than me, taller than me, stronger than me, fitter than me and smarter than me. I am not that hard to beat. There are plenty of guys who are wealthy but are too short, or too skinny that I have turned down as well, it's not just one thing, and if I can't find that, I will probably end up in a vanilla relationship, as simple as that.




< Message edited by Greta75 -- 5/10/2014 8:21:18 PM >

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RE: Poverty hard limits? - 5/10/2014 10:05:11 PM   
TopDawgKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovesobedience

It seems like there is an almost unspoken, "When you are settled financially and can support me, then I would talk to you." kind of a mentality.
....
It seems like I am supposed to wait five or ten years to look for someone... does that seem wrong to anyone else too?


LOL Don't wait 5 or 10 years to look for someone. As for those "subs" that are expecting you to support them, well, exactly who is submitting to whom? Sounds like you've managed to run across some of the wrong people.

That being said your profile says "I am not having success finding what I want in the vanilla world. So I am looking here." I assure you that a D/s or M/s relationship will not fix what doesn't work about a relationship that's vanilla. Have you carefully examined why you entered into vanilla relationships and they didn't work? If it's a communication problem it can only possibly get worse. If it's that you simply are kinky and vanilla doesn't float your boat then you're moving in the right direction.

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RE: Poverty hard limits? - 5/11/2014 1:02:20 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

It seems like there is an almost unspoken, "When you are settled financially and can support me, then I would talk to you." kind of a mentality. P


If you are 30, and studying then why not date college girls? I think younger women who are still in school are less likely to care about social economical status. They just want to have fun and are not at the stage where they start thinking about alot of practical matters.

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RE: Poverty hard limits? - 5/11/2014 1:11:13 AM   
DaddySatyr


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

If you are 30, and studying then why not date college girls?



Contrary to popular myth, not all men want to spend time with younger ladies.

By the time I was thirty years old, I had a hard time relating to anyone that hadn't had some of the same life experiences that I had.

Add on top of that that I am the very tail end of the "Baby Boomer" generation. There were ladies I dated when I was 35 (I ended my marriage when I was 33) that were only a few years younger than I with whom I had almost nothing in common (but boy, could I get along with their parents!).







Screen captures still RULE! Ya feel me?

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 5/11/2014 1:12:30 AM >

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RE: Poverty hard limits? - 5/11/2014 1:17:13 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr
There were ladies I dated when I was 35 (I ended my marriage when I was 33) that were only a few years younger than I with whom I had almost nothing in common (but boy, could I get along with their parents!).

Are you just saying you prefer older women? :)

OP may not have a preference with age. He needs to widen his chances by targeting the right age group who may have less objections.

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RE: Poverty hard limits? - 5/11/2014 1:25:40 AM   
DaddySatyr


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From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

Are you just saying you prefer older women? :)

OP may not have a preference with age.



No, I was pretty clear that not all men wish to date younger ladies.

I did give some insight into why this was true of me. I'm sure there are others who have other reasons.

By the time I was thirty years old, I had three children, had been in the military, had already "sown my wild oats", and had a hideously failing marriage.

I wasn't meeting a whole lot of twenty-nine year olds (once my marriage ended) who could relate to many of the things that I was dealing with (nor I, them). I didn't go to college right after high school (like many 25-29 year old ladies had). I had already had my nights, "clubbing" and puking on my shoes at 0400.

There are all kinds of reasons; personal preference may be one. For whatever reason, the OP seems to not feel that college ladies are an option. I am going to be going back to school in September. I'm sure I'll be a "father figure" to a few ladies. I'm also sure I'll want very little to do (romantically) with just about all of them. I don't deny there may be an "old soul" in the bunch but I'm not holding my breath.

Now, I know guys in their 30s and 40s that would love to find themselves in that position but, as I said; I don't think it's as many as some people like to think.







Screen captures still RULE! Ya feel me?

_____________________________

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Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to Greta75)
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