RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with prayer!

RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with prayer! (Full Version)

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thompsonx -> RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with prayer! (5/6/2014 10:47:40 AM)
NOOO they DO NOT, no more than an INSURANCE company ISSUES you the car they insure, they are YOUR RIGHTS the gov't just PROTECTS THEM If the government does not protect them for me they do not exist.

DaddySatyr -> RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with prayer! (5/6/2014 10:50:33 AM)
Last year, here in Wilkes-Barre, Pennsyltucky, there was a "National Day Of Prayer" event organized to include some bands and some speakers in the town square. I believe it was called: "Prayer on the Square". I haven't lived here very long (just over a year) and I haven't delved too deeply into this (yet) but the square can be used by any group that gets a permit. Before last year's event, a Justin Vancular (or something like that) obtained a permit to place a banner proclaiming: "Nothing Fails Like Prayer" above the bandstand. I'm not arguing whether or not this is his right, as I believe it is but because of his banner, the banner for the event was removed. When the god-haters engage in this kind of behavior, how can they bitch when an equal and opposite reaction comes forward (I'm planning on paying to place my own banner to depose his)? I'm the "bad guy", of course because my spirituality banner will replace his. He could have easily organized his own event, the next day or the next weekend, whatever. Instead, he chose to be a douche-canoe and opened the door for someone to be a douche-canoe toward him. I'll be back. I'm going to go and grab my paddle. Screen captures *still* RULE! Ya feel me?

DomKen -> RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with prayer! (5/6/2014 11:38:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr Last year, here in Wilkes-Barre, Pennsyltucky, there was a "National Day Of Prayer" event organized to include some bands and some speakers in the town square. I believe it was called: "Prayer on the Square". I haven't lived here very long (just over a year) and I haven't delved too deeply into this (yet) but the square can be used by any group that gets a permit. Before last year's event, a Justin Vancular (or something like that) obtained a permit to place a banner proclaiming: "Nothing Fails Like Prayer" above the bandstand. I'm not arguing whether or not this is his right, as I believe it is but because of his banner, the banner for the event was removed. When the god-haters engage in this kind of behavior, how can they bitch when an equal and opposite reaction comes forward (I'm planning on paying to place my own banner to depose his)? I'm the "bad guy", of course because my spirituality banner will replace his. He could have easily organized his own event, the next day or the next weekend, whatever. Instead, he chose to be a douche-canoe and opened the door for someone to be a douche-canoe toward him. I'll be back. I'm going to go and grab my paddle. You're welcome to pay to have a banner alongside that one but since there is room for many banners I do not see where you can prevent it being there.

MistressKel -> RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with prayer! (5/6/2014 7:45:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BitYakin quote: ORIGINAL: MistressKel Aside from the fact that the Bible makes clear that prayer should be private (and no, I can't quote to you where I got that, just read the damn Bible and you'll know for yourself)... quote: I think what you meant was, I don't like religion so they SHOULD KEEP IT PRIVATE, like it was something DIRTY or SHAMEFULL When you push it on other people, it IS dirty and shameful...much more shameful than ANYTHING I've ever done. Why can't Christians not accept the words, I DON'T WANT TO HEAR IT? My Aunt...OMG. I quit going to holiday functions because she would corner me and push God on me. Despite my telling her that I'm good with God, and have my OWN relationship with him that I handle my OWN way. She continues to tell me that I need Jesus as my saviour...how the FUCK does this silly bitch KNOW what I need when she doesn't even listen to what I DO believe??? SO, the main reason I don't like public prayer is because it's bullshit and just a way to "weed out" 'unbelievers" so that they can target them for brainwashing. isn't it nice to live in a country where you are free to express that opinion, to bad you don't feel everyone has that SAME RIGHT you just FORCED YOUR OPINION ON ME DIDN'T YOU??? ohh wait, I didn't HAVE TO READ IT OR LISTEN TO IT DID I? just as YOU HAVE THAT SAME OPTION! don't wanna be part of a religion DON'T GO TO A CHURCH, don't wanna listen to bible thumpers CLOSE THE DOOR, don't wanna hear a prayer at a pubic function STEP OUTSIDE quit PRETENDING you are being FORCED! seeeee you FIGURED IT OUT with your AUNT, JUST DON'T GO THERE, its called FREEDOM Dude, do you even READ the stuff you reply to? I think you're just trying to get everyone to look at you, whilst you scream for them to stop staring at you whilst asking them if they are assholes...Perhaps a case of Dissociative identity disorder? No? Yes? ALL FOR ONE AND ONE FOR ALL!! Your cognitive dissonance is frightening. Don't bother attacking me spliffy, it won't get you anywhere because I've seen your prattling posts and do not value your opinion at all. Have a nice life. Before you whinge about it, remember that if you can't take it, then don't dish that shit out to other people--you may be a big doggie where you are, but here, you are just a poster in a forum...Buh bye Mr. Bully.

thishereboi -> RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with prayer! (5/7/2014 4:48:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistressKel quote: ORIGINAL: BitYakin quote: ORIGINAL: MistressKel Aside from the fact that the Bible makes clear that prayer should be private (and no, I can't quote to you where I got that, just read the damn Bible and you'll know for yourself)... quote: I think what you meant was, I don't like religion so they SHOULD KEEP IT PRIVATE, like it was something DIRTY or SHAMEFULL When you push it on other people, it IS dirty and shameful...much more shameful than ANYTHING I've ever done. Why can't Christians not accept the words, I DON'T WANT TO HEAR IT? My Aunt...OMG. I quit going to holiday functions because she would corner me and push God on me. Despite my telling her that I'm good with God, and have my OWN relationship with him that I handle my OWN way. She continues to tell me that I need Jesus as my saviour...how the FUCK does this silly bitch KNOW what I need when she doesn't even listen to what I DO believe??? SO, the main reason I don't like public prayer is because it's bullshit and just a way to "weed out" 'unbelievers" so that they can target them for brainwashing. isn't it nice to live in a country where you are free to express that opinion, to bad you don't feel everyone has that SAME RIGHT you just FORCED YOUR OPINION ON ME DIDN'T YOU??? ohh wait, I didn't HAVE TO READ IT OR LISTEN TO IT DID I? just as YOU HAVE THAT SAME OPTION! don't wanna be part of a religion DON'T GO TO A CHURCH, don't wanna listen to bible thumpers CLOSE THE DOOR, don't wanna hear a prayer at a pubic function STEP OUTSIDE quit PRETENDING you are being FORCED! seeeee you FIGURED IT OUT with your AUNT, JUST DON'T GO THERE, its called FREEDOM Dude, do you even READ the stuff you reply to? I think you're just trying to get everyone to look at you, whilst you scream for them to stop staring at you whilst asking them if they are assholes...Perhaps a case of Dissociative identity disorder? No? Yes? ALL FOR ONE AND ONE FOR ALL!! Your cognitive dissonance is frightening. Don't bother attacking me spliffy, it won't get you anywhere because I've seen your prattling posts and do not value your opinion at all. Have a nice life. Before you whinge about it, remember that if you can't take it, then don't dish that shit out to other people--you may be a big doggie where you are, but here, you are just a poster in a forum...Buh bye Mr. Bully. I am not sure what gave you the impression he didn't read your post. He seems to have summed it up quite well.

MistressKel -> RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with prayer! (5/7/2014 6:39:06 AM)
quote: I am not sure what gave you the impression he didn't read your post. He seems to have summed it up quite well. LMFAO. "seems" being the operative word here.

MercTech -> RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with prayer! (5/7/2014 7:25:03 AM)
Hey guys, there never was a ban on prayer in public. There was a ruling that prayer in PUBLIC SCHOOLS where attendance was mandatory would be a violation of the rights of the students being forced to listen to a prayer from a religion other than their own. The key concepts were "mandatory attendance" and "public". Government funded mandatory cannot establish an official religious observation hence no religious observations sponsored by the school. Prayer in a public meeting where attendance is not mandatory is another issue altogether.

altoonamaster -> RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with prayer! (5/7/2014 7:31:08 AM)
the banner he obtained was removed without his say so?

joether -> RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with prayer! (5/7/2014 9:50:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: joether That's right, the conservative justices once more handed the GOP another win. You're making shit up again... Though the decision split the court along ideological lines, the Obama administration backed the winning side ~Source Lawyers for the Obama administration filed an amicus brief in favor of religious invocations at government meetings, arguing that the prayers in question do not amount to an unconstitutional establishment of religion. The administration's brief was signed by Donald B. Verrilli, Jr., Solicitor General; Stuart F. Delery, Acting Assistant Attorney General; Edwini S. Kneedler, Deputy Solicitor General, Sarah E. Harrington, Assistant to the Solicitor General; and attorneys Matthew M. Collette and Lowell V Sturgill, Jr. Brief for the United States as Amicus Curiae supporting Petitioner You know all those times when I say I disagree with President Obama? That you and others have called me on? And that I replied that I disagreed with him on stuff, but understood his position? Here is one of them. I understand his position, and still disagree with it. If I go to a town meeting, I want to see things getting done in my town, not listen to 10 hours of religious prayers!

DomKen -> RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with prayer! (5/7/2014 2:37:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MercTech Hey guys, there never was a ban on prayer in public. There was a ruling that prayer in PUBLIC SCHOOLS where attendance was mandatory would be a violation of the rights of the students being forced to listen to a prayer from a religion other than their own. The key concepts were "mandatory attendance" and "public". Government funded mandatory cannot establish an official religious observation hence no religious observations sponsored by the school. Prayer in a public meeting where attendance is not mandatory is another issue altogether. The question wasn't about whether there could be prayer at all. That question has been answered. The question is could this city council favor exclusively Christian prayers. Despite there being several Jewish synagogues and a Buddhist temple in the city the council only called on Christian ministers to give the invocation. That was challenged as an establishment clause violation.

Kirata -> RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with prayer! (5/7/2014 6:10:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Despite there being several Jewish synagogues and a Buddhist temple in the city the council only called on Christian ministers to give the invocation. Yellowpages.com lists NO synagogues in Greece, NY. http://www.yellowpages.com/greece-ny/synagogue And according to the Christian Science Monitor, "a Wiccan priestess, a lay Jewish man, and a representative from a local Baha’i group" were invited to give invocations. You have a nice day now. K.

Kirata -> RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with prayer! (5/7/2014 6:21:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: joether That's right, the conservative justices once more handed the GOP another win. You're making shit up again... You know all those times when I say I disagree with President Obama? *That you and others have called me on?* There's something you should know about your memory of that.... It's not a real memory. K.

TheHeretic -> RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with prayer! (5/7/2014 7:58:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether If I go to a town meeting, I want to see things getting done in my town, not listen to 10 hours of religious prayers! Dude, they do a quick invocation, and get down to business.

DomKen -> RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with prayer! (5/7/2014 8:31:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Despite there being several Jewish synagogues and a Buddhist temple in the city the council only called on Christian ministers to give the invocation. Yellowpages.com lists NO synagogues in Greece, NY. http://www.yellowpages.com/greece-ny/synagogue And according to the Christian Science Monitor, "a Wiccan priestess, a lay Jewish man, and a representative from a local Baha’i group" were invited to give invocations. You have a nice day now. Dumbass liar. from your own source quote: In 1999, the supervisor decided to start inviting members of the local clergy to present a prayer at the start of the board’s monthly meetings. Some of the prayers were oriented toward a particular faith and virtually all of the prayers were Christian. Many referred to Jesus and included references to “we” and “us,” suggesting that all persons present shared the same beliefs. It was only once they got threatened with a lawsuit that they brought in the tokens.

Kirata -> RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with prayer! (5/7/2014 8:50:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Despite there being several Jewish synagogues and a Buddhist temple in the city the council only called on Christian ministers to give the invocation. Yellowpages.com lists NO synagogues in Greece, NY. http://www.yellowpages.com/greece-ny/synagogue And according to the Christian Science Monitor, "a Wiccan priestess, a lay Jewish man, and a representative from a local Baha’i group" were invited to give invocations. Dumbass liar. Yellowpages.com doesn't have a Buddhist temple listed in Greece, NY, either. K.

dcnovice -> RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with prayer! (5/7/2014 8:59:22 PM)
FR Although the policy in Greece, a town of 100,000 people, does not embrace a particular religion, all members of the public who gave a prayer were Christians until two residents filed suit in 2008. Some of the prayers featured explicitly Christian references, including mentions of Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/05/us-usa-court-prayer-idUSBREA440FO20140505 ETA: The case involved the New York town of Greece, just outside Rochester, where the council regularly opened its meetings with a prayer delivered by someone from the community. The speakers were recruited from local houses of worship, which were overwhelmingly Christian. In fact, every meeting from 1999 to 2007 opened with a Christian prayer, and even after two of the town’s residents filed a lawsuit, only a handful of non-Christians have delivered the invocation. http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/supreme-court-upholds-legislative-prayer-at-council-meetings/2014/05/05/dc142ede-cf9d-11e3-b812-0c92213941f4_story.html

Kirata -> RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with prayer! (5/7/2014 9:05:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice FR Although the policy in Greece, a town of 100,000 people, does not embrace a particular religion, all members of the public who gave a prayer were Christians until two residents filed suit in 2008. Some of the prayers featured explicitly Christian references, including mentions of Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/05/us-usa-court-prayer-idUSBREA440FO20140505 Ah, thanks. Alright then. Different source. Previous post edited accordingly. K.

Kirata -> RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with prayer! (5/7/2014 9:11:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice The speakers were recruited from local houses of worship, which were overwhelmingly Christian... even after two of the town’s residents filed a lawsuit, only a handful of non-Christians have delivered the invocation. Well that's probably to be expected if they're inviting invocators from around the various congregations and there's only a handful of non-Christians in the town. “That nearly all the congregations in town turned out to be Christian does not reflect an aversion or bias on the part of town leaders against minority faiths,” Kennedy said. ~Source Reading further, although it sounds like what the town was doing before it received complaints wasn't entirely Kosher, the suit didn't seek to correct the oversight with regard to other faiths. One of the petitioners was an Atheist who objected to the prayers, period. The other felt that the prayers should be "non-sectarian," presumably no matter who was offering them. But that seems to me to raise all kinds of problems. How, precisely, is a member of the Islamic clergy supposed to offer a prayer without mentioning Allah? And what exactly is a "non-sectarian" prayer? government must permit a prayer giver to address his or her own God or gods as conscience dictates, unfettered by what an administrator or judge considers to be nonsectarian. ~Justice Kennedy (same source as previous) K.

dcnovice -> RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with prayer! (5/7/2014 9:30:06 PM)
quote: there's only a handful of non-Christians in the town. Six percent of the population is Jewish, and 9.8% are "other" (apparently non-Christian). That seems like more than a "handful." http://www.city-data.com/city/Greece-New-York.html

dcnovice -> RE: You can now violate someone else's religion with prayer! (5/7/2014 9:32:44 PM)
quote: “That nearly all the congregations in town turned out to be Christian does not reflect an aversion or bias on the part of town leaders against minority faiths,” Kennedy said. Perhaps not. Having only Christians deliver invocations in the civic arena, on the other hand . . .

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