quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

I am still not clear on the US having virtually nothing to do with your listed defeats. Beyond the eastern front in Germany, what did the Russians have to do with defeating Italy and the Japanese ?

Racing the Enemy by Tsuyoshi Hasegawa
Is a good place to start,

No it isn't a good place to start as both Geoffrey Jukes and Hasegawa are full of shit.

Have you read the book? If not I can direct you to a free pdf copy on line. Are you sugesting that these battles did not take place?


If what he suggests is true then why did the Japanese threaten the emperor's life to keep fighting ?


If you had read the book virtually all of the section on the plot to "sequester" the emperor by the radicals in the war ministry is taken from the "crysanthemum and the Sword" by Ruth Benedict...a dated work with a lot of post war rhetorc about Japanese cultural "defeciencies" but accurate in the events concerning the "mutiny" of the junior officers who tried to capture the imperial palace.

Why also was the Soviet Japanese front never reported in Japanese archives or concurrent news as a factor in the Japanese hierarchy's decision to surrender and unconditionally to the US ?

Obviously you have not read the book.

The Soviet declaration of war on Japan was essentially a hollow one

Moving a million and a half men and all of their battle rattle how many thousand miles on a one track rail road without being discovered is a hollow gesture????In what zip code?

after they expended so many forces taking Germany and it was 1 million men several thousand aircraft and dozens of ship in a US invasion Japan faced, not such a Soviet invasion...if the bombs hadn't convinced them to surrender.

Clearly you have not read the book or any history of the incident.

I mean here was a guy born in 1941 and he's going to tell us the basis of Japan's defeat in WWII ?

Are those born in 1941 not capale of rational thought?



The USSR didn't even declare war until 2 days after Hiroshima


As per the agreement of the big 4 that the soviet union would declare war on japan within 3 months of the defeat of germany.

and there has been a complete debunking of what is called...revisionists history if Japan's surrender. Here


I read professors korts opinion and no where does he dispute the facts of the battles we are discussing but rather discussed the reasons for the dropping of the a bomb and revisionist views re: the reasons behind dropping them...nothing new there.
You are free to use your judgement as to what actually caused things to happen in international relations.
The fact that the japs had more resources available in japan to repell the u.s. invasion was not known till after the war.
That the one million plus men of the army of kwantoon could have been brought to mainland japan quickly and effectively is not in doubt. That that army was destroyed and the million plus man army of russia was within "rock throwing distance" of the japanese mainland with nothing to prevent their invasion.
This means that japan would be faced with a russian occupation...the choice to surrender to the americans seems,to me, to be an easy way out of a serious butt fucking.
If you think the a bombs did the trick count the body bags from the two a bombs and compare that against the 60 cities that no longer existed, the 20 square miles of tokyo that burned to the ground and the millions of body bags from conventional fire bombing and the japs never rolled over and said "uncle".
But when they no longer had an army with which to defend their country they took the best option.

(in reply to MrRodgers)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

double penetration, huntie? where did I get lost? Help a brother out.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
We are moving towards renewables, Ken. We have been moving towards renewables, Ken. What happened in the 1970's? Haven't we been moving towards renewables since the 70's? Sure, there are countries moving to them faster than we are, but there are also countries moving to them slower than we are. I'm okay with other countries taking the lumps, bumps and bruises figuring out how to make renewables work economically. Since it's a tech issue, it's likely to go down in price as the tech continues to improve. How fucking horrible would it be to get in the game after costs have dropped.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Well, no.

There are LOTS of untapped sources, but they would be expensive to extract.

And yes, we moved toward renewable energy in the 70s, and the first thing Reagan did upon taking office in January 1981 was cancel all the conservation/renewable energy programs Carter had started. All of them.

That's why, 3 and a half decades later, we're having this conversation again, when we could have been 35 years down the road on this.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
We are moving towards renewables, Ken. We have been moving towards renewables, Ken. What happened in the 1970's? Haven't we been moving towards renewables since the 70's? Sure, there are countries moving to them faster than we are, but there are also countries moving to them slower than we are. I'm okay with other countries taking the lumps, bumps and bruises figuring out how to make renewables work economically. Since it's a tech issue, it's likely to go down in price as the tech continues to improve. How fucking horrible would it be to get in the game after costs have dropped.

Catastrophic? Apocalyptic? Those other countries will own that technology. We'd be stuck buying it from them. We'd be stuck bringing their techs over here to install the equipment. We'd be a third world nation dependent on the first world for our energy. That is until we ran out of natural resources to export that they wanted then...

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

double penetration, huntie? where did I get lost? Help a brother out.

Essentially the japs were looking at a dp with no lube...enter the geishas..."me ruv u rong time boysan"and off they stroll hand in hand down the beach of commerce and the bear smugly proud to once more enjoy a "pacific window". Would the bear have prefered an asian colony???they gave back e. germany???

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
Well, no.
There are LOTS of untapped sources, but they would be expensive to extract.
And yes, we moved toward renewable energy in the 70s, and the first thing Reagan did upon taking office in January 1981 was cancel all the conservation/renewable energy programs Carter had started. All of them.
That's why, 3 and a half decades later, we're having this conversation again, when we could have been 35 years down the road on this.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

FR

I for one would love to see a world without American influence or intervention.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
Well, no.
There are LOTS of untapped sources, but they would be expensive to extract.
And yes, we moved toward renewable energy in the 70s, and the first thing Reagan did upon taking office in January 1981 was cancel all the conservation/renewable energy programs Carter had started. All of them.
That's why, 3 and a half decades later, we're having this conversation again, when we could have been 35 years down the road on this.

Perhaps it wasn't the Federal Government's responsibility to push renewable energy. Renewable energy has been developed well past what it was in the 70's. How did that happen without the Federal Government pushing it?

It's not government's job to push any particular form of energy over another. Did the early auto makers design horseless carriages because government decided it would be more efficient a mode of travel than horse-drawn carriages? Did government push for and fund research into automobiles?

I am (and have been since that house with the solar panels) interested in alternative energy. I'm not interested in it because of the effect it might have on the environment. I have always been interested because I'd rather have lower energy costs. If I have a wind turbine and solar panels, how much lower will my power bills be? Once I get a geothermal HVAC system, how much will my utility costs drop? It's entirely been - as it should be, imo - a market-based question. If people want it, someone, some group, or some company will develop it and bring it to market. If no one wants it, it's less likely to come to market, or less likely to stay.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
We are moving towards renewables, Ken. We have been moving towards renewables, Ken. What happened in the 1970's? Haven't we been moving towards renewables since the 70's? Sure, there are countries moving to them faster than we are, but there are also countries moving to them slower than we are. I'm okay with other countries taking the lumps, bumps and bruises figuring out how to make renewables work economically. Since it's a tech issue, it's likely to go down in price as the tech continues to improve. How fucking horrible would it be to get in the game after costs have dropped.

Catastrophic? Apocalyptic? Those other countries will own that technology. We'd be stuck buying it from them. We'd be stuck bringing their techs over here to install the equipment. We'd be a third world nation dependent on the first world for our energy. That is until we ran out of natural resources to export that they wanted then...

We'd be stuck buying it from them?!? How so? Has solar technology lowered the cost of solar for Americans, only because of the research that has been done in the US?

Does setting up your TV require knowing how it works? I'm sure you are quite aware of how everything you have in your house works, right down to the programming in each microchip, right?

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

FR

I for one would love to see a world without American influence or intervention.

Why? Seriously.