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RE: Basic Math = A Sad Comentary - 7/10/2006 6:14:10 AM

irishbynature

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I completely suck at Math. Had to retake Alg 1 and 11 in summer school. (God, wished they would have let us use calulators on the SAT/ACT's like they do now!!!

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Post #: 41

RE: Basic Math = A Sad Comentary - 7/10/2006 6:44:42 AM

IrishMist

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quote:

Why would learning spanish be such a deal breaker?

Because she had no interest in learning Spanish. Her foreign language interest was Japanese ( of which she has and is still learning ). In addition to this she has also learned ( and is learning ) Latin, German, and French. These were all choices that SHE made; not one's that she was forced to endure.

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RE: Basic Math = A Sad Comentary - 7/10/2006 6:50:13 AM

missturbation

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I'm not bad at maths but i have had my blonde days where i cant count change for love nor money. My daughter who is 13 is way better at math than me so it cant all be down to the faults of teaching. Its prob more to do with calculators, tills that do all the math for you etc.
I speak French, german and spanish although english is my native tongue obviously and i can probably count better in Spanish than any other language - go figure.

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RE: Basic Math = A Sad Comentary - 7/10/2006 6:55:53 AM

Moloch

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Democratic party eh? Speaking of politics, why arent they educating childern ? Instead they stuff their head way too liberal or way too conservative crap. Since when does the school system teaches my children the moral values of whats wrong or right, be it texas school or california school.

< Message edited by Moloch -- 7/10/2006 6:56:17 AM >

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Post #: 44

RE: Basic Math = A Sad Comentary - 7/10/2006 7:45:54 AM

NeedToUseYou

Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Emperor1956

I'll chime in with BlkTallFullfig, MistressLorelei and Kedikat -- the OP and some of the following posts smack a bit of --gee...what do we call it? OH, yah..RACISM.

oh the ever present bane of all topics involving anything where there is disagreement.
I can't speak for the OP, but I think the train of thought is that adding a mandatory second language will only dilute the teacher pool further and distract from the teaching of the core subjects. Which is more important being able to subtract, or speaking Spanish. If you have to maintain a English speaking and Spanish speaking teacher for every subject and have books printed in both languages, you either have to double education funding to allow for a shitload more teachers, or you have to teach the English speaking to be completely fluent in Spanish, as it's becoming painfully obviously English doesn't seem to be a priority in large segment of the immigrant community.

So, the implication is, that with the introduction of a second language the education system will degrade further. That isn't a racist statement. That just a way of looking at situation from a different angle. It would be the same thing no matter what the second language was.

In high school I took two years of spanish, but I chose to. At the same time I think it would be a complete and total waste of education funds to teach math in Spanish, while in a country where English has for its entire history been the default language. I'm suprised one can't see the ramifications and costs connected with maintaining two educational systems, a Spanish, and English. I see an advantage to learning a second languange, but no advantage in teaching every subject in two languages.

(in reply to Emperor1956)

Post #: 45

RE: Basic Math = A Sad Comentary - 7/10/2006 8:08:27 AM

Mercnbeth

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kedikat

By the way.....

To all those who might chime in with agreement of the sorry state of education, particularly those with children.

WHAT HAVE YOU DONE ABOUT IT !

this slave stayed at home with the unmentionables, EVERY day until the youngest turned 12. this slave started teaching them math and reading when they were preschool age, even took the youngest two out of 5th and 6th, 6th and 7th grade and homeschooled them to make sure they had the basics down before entering high school.

it isn't always the fault of a poor education system, it can also be a personal disability issue...this slave used to work as an assistant to a Mathematics Professor at a local jr. college(remedial math--Arithmetic, Algebra I and II). "dyscalculia" is a learning disability similar to dyslexia that many people have and are unaware of. they also have a higher level of "math anxiety" than the person without the learning disability that they have to learn to deal with, as well as learn strategies to deal with their dyscalculia--all this while the people around them are accusing them of "not trying" and "being stupid" and their high school teachers socially advancing them when they are unprepared for the next level.

the fault of the education system is not giving the students the top priority by graduating them from high school when they aren't proficient in high school math(Algebra).

(in reply to Kedikat)

Post #: 46

RE: Basic Math = A Sad Comentary - 7/10/2006 8:58:11 AM

MistressLorelei

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moloch

Democratic party eh? Speaking of politics, why arent they educating childern ? Instead they stuff their head way too liberal or way too conservative crap. Since when does the school system teaches my children the moral values of whats wrong or right, be it texas school or california school.

I don't understand the point you are trying to make.... Why isn't who educating children? The Democrats? They represent children and the educational system far better than the republicans, while also putting the parents (all but the top 2%) in a better economical environment.

Morals are learned, first and foremost from the parents., and sadly, not only can many parents not spell.... but many lack morals and common sense these days... or else they simply (intentionally, or not) show their children that they don't have time to .spend with them, or care to listen to them. If a kid doesn't feel cared about, or that they "matter", how will they ever learn to care about others?

Children would learn much better, if kids arrived in kindergarten with morals, empathy, and common sense, and without prejudices learned at home. Parents and schools both play a huge role in our educational system, and neither are looking all too promising to me.

(in reply to Moloch)

Post #: 47

RE: Basic Math = A Sad Comentary - 7/10/2006 9:08:09 AM

merlote

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kedikat

By the way.....

To all those who might chime in with agreement of the sorry state of education, particularly those with children.

WHAT HAVE YOU DONE ABOUT IT !

Homeschool, and work in education...however, state mandates do not always allow for giving what is needed most..time..my biggest issue is, we can't put all the pegs in the same damn square holes. Different learning styles require different methods of teaching.

(in reply to Kedikat)

Post #: 48

RE: Basic Math = A Sad Comentary - 7/10/2006 10:40:38 AM

Moloch

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Sorry english isnt my first language, what Im trying to say is that we worry too much about things like creationism vs evolution and sex ed, but instead we should be concetrating on grades and quality of education.

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Post #: 49

RE: Basic Math = A Sad Comentary - 7/10/2006 11:03:28 AM

MistressLorelei

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moloch

Sorry english isnt my first language, what Im trying to say is that we worry too much about things like creationism vs evolution and sex ed, but instead we should be concetrating on grades and quality of education.

I can agree to a degree.... but well-rounded adults evolve from well-rounded kids. Also, if kids aren't educated on how not to get pregnant, more will end up dropping out of school before making it to geometry.

I think kids should be exposed to a lot, and with smaller class sizes, and higher quality teachers, kids can actually learn a lot about a lot.

(in reply to Moloch)

Post #: 50

RE: Basic Math = A Sad Comentary - 7/10/2006 11:14:25 AM

Moloch

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Cant really disagree with that either.

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Post #: 51

RE: Basic Math = A Sad Comentary - 7/10/2006 11:28:18 AM

doll

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From: Middle Georgia
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Ok...I have worked in the school district and I can say that there are some very good teachers out there...it isn't the lack of teachers trying....some of these kids nowadays just don't care. They have better things to do then learn or have attitudes that teachers shouldn't have to deal with. I know that I encountered the attitudes a lot.

I worked at a school with children who lived in high risk areas and poverty. I was told several times that they didn't need an education...they could live off of the system and do other things and survive.

And I was a full-time working parent who sent my child to daycare. My son learned a lot at his daycare, I paid extra to make sure he got some sort of education for his age level, in preschool he was learning things that others were learning in kindergarten, so when he started school last year, he could read, write, tie his own shoes, count to 100 and so on. It does have to do a lot with parents not caring to teach their children.

Yes the government is lacking in funds for teachers and the majority of them are severely under paid, but they don't slack in their jobs because of it. Some of these teachers go out of their way to try to help the children who are behind.

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Post #: 52

RE: Basic Math = A Sad Comentary - 7/10/2006 12:38:50 PM

marieToo

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From: Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kedikat

It's destroying our country and culture to have other languages learned and used here. But it is civilizing the other countries when they learn english.
Xenophobia is a greek word though, nothing to do with us.

Dont you come from a country that is primarily bi-lingual? Or at least in certain areas?

(in reply to Kedikat)

Post #: 53

RE: Basic Math = A Sad Comentary - 7/10/2006 1:22:37 PM

doll

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I think that if a child wants to learn another language it should be because they want to not because they have to.

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Post #: 54

RE: Basic Math = A Sad Comentary - 7/10/2006 1:38:36 PM

JerryInTampa

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Or, instead of rhetoric, we could look at actual data.

Here's an actual math question (10th grade) from the FCAT.

Two identical right circular cones have bene placed with their bases touching. The radius of each base is 5cm and the total length of the object is 24cm. What is the volume in cubic centimeters (http://www.firn.edu/doe/sas/fcat/pdf/fc0mib1r.pdf)

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Post #: 55

RE: Basic Math = A Sad Comentary - 7/10/2006 1:47:27 PM

mnottertail

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approximately that of a 5cm by 24cm cylinder. But interestingly that is the trouble with the schooling method, they should be doing money problems and bookkeeping, adding fractions and common applications at that age.

Balancing a checkbook.

Not that I am set against geometry and such, it belongs on a track tho......as in, do you want to grow up to be a designer, architect. physicist or the like.

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Post #: 56

RE: Basic Math = A Sad Comentary - 7/10/2006 2:01:43 PM

NakedOnMyChain

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Once again, I haven't read the responses yet. I'm giving my initial reaction to the OP. I'll read the rest after I post this.

quote:

ORIGNAL: MasterRenegade77

6. Teaching Math In 2005

Un hachero vende una carretada de maderapara $100. El costo de la
producciones es $80.

Oh, now that's just ridiculous.

I can agree with the deterioration of our education system for various reasons, such as overcrowding, lack of funding, and unqualified or uncaring teachers. However, I have yet to see an English speaking student being taught math in Spanish outside of a Spanish language class, and I guarantee it won't be happening anytime soon. This is the type of jumping the gun misinformation that leads people to take a misguided stance on relevant issues. You're trying to make two plus two equal five and it's just not working.

As a substitute teacher, I have yet to see the above be the case. I have taught in many classrooms at many grade levels and never witnessed it, nor heard of it. The unfortunate cases that I have seen involve quite the opposite. I have been thrown into classrooms where there are several Spanish speaking students who know little or no English (though they try), and I can't translate our math lesson that occurs in English for them, and there are no Spanish speaking aides to help. If you saw the look of confusion and hopelessness on these children's faces, you would have a little more sympathy. These kids want to learn. They want to be able to do everything their English speaking peers do. They want to fit in. Often they are being taught English, but haven't picked up enough yet or aren't learning fast enough. Who am I to say that my English speaking students' education is more important?

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Post #: 57

RE: Basic Math = A Sad Comentary - 7/10/2006 2:02:32 PM

JerryInTampa

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

[..] they should be doing money problems and bookkeeping, adding fractions and common applications at that age. [..]

Actually, that's done before 5th grade... not 10th.

Contrary to popular opinion, the amount and level of training performed by schools has consistantly gone up over the decades. Issues like fractions, mean/median/mode, percentages, etc are covered in elementry school, algebra and basic trig are covered in middle school, and high-school deals more with analytic geometry and calculus.

Is there anyone here other than me that is actually invovled in a school system?

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Post #: 58

RE: Basic Math = A Sad Commentary - 7/10/2006 2:09:45 PM

MasterRenegade77

Posts: 1852
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From: Upstate N.Y. (Broome Co.)
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I'm going to repost the following as you obviously Missed it...

Theodore Roosevelt's ideas on Immigrants

Amen to this! 99 years later.

What a visionary that Teddy R. Theodore Roosevelt's ideas on Immigrants
and being an AMERICAN in 1907.

"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes
here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us,
he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is
an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or
birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's
becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...
There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an
American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have
room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one
language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for
but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

-Theodore Roosevelt 1907-

If that's being racist then so be it, I'm an American Born & Raised Here...
I fail to understand why I have to Dial 1 when I places a call to get the english version, I thought it was the immigrants job to assimilate into our culture ie learn the language, the customs & the laws, not the other way around...
Why is it when "White Americans" don't agree with another cultures opinions it's automatic that they Must be a Racist??? Hell I know that 9/10 of us are of immigrant descent anyways but why is it that we have to bend over backwards to accomodate them now days nobody did it for our forefathers???

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Post #: 59

RE: Basic Math = A Sad Comentary - 7/10/2006 2:15:22 PM

mnottertail

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Not so fast there........

My post stands......that is not working to be doing it the way it is.
Algebra is fundamental.
Trig is fundamental.
Geometry is fundamental.

Less time on bundles of sticks at that age. You seen one bundle you seen them all.

again in the tenth grade and beyond...should get heavily involved in real application of these fundamental properties.

You walk pretty close to calling me ignorant. Perhaps your comprehension of my post is a reflection on the school system, then.

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Post #: 60

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