Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Basic Math = A Sad Comentary


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: Basic Math = A Sad Comentary Page: <<   < prev  1 2 3 [4] 5   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Basic Math = A Sad Comentary - 7/10/2006 2:33:26 PM   
NakedOnMyChain


Posts: 2431
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel

What did I do to insure that my kids got a decent education... first I took them out of the California School system... then I took away the calculators, handed them dictionaries and encyclopedias, and quizzed them at home.
 
How do you teach kids fractions? I had them organize my tool box... put the sockets in order according to size, same with the wrenches... they figured out fractions. To get them to memorize times tables.. I made a chart with the times table on it and hung it in their room... they did their homework in the kitchen, I counted on a childs natural laziness... it didn't take long for them to get tired of running back to their room to get the answer and they started memorizing it.
 
I went to grandparents day at my grand nestlings school... the english teacher was talking to the little ones about reading... and she said... and I quote "yous guys"... I left.
 
Now to get way out there in left feild... Cheating the schools, cheating the young people out of a decent education is simply breeding sheep... an uneducated society is an easy society to lead... of course that's just my opinion. It won't be long before being illiterate is the norm. We don't need to be able to read complicated documents.. our government wouldn't do anything to harm us.... right?
 
Jewel


Woohoo!  Those are excellent ideas!  I especially like the one about teaching fractions by using the sockets and the toolbox.  I wrote several of the things you mentioned down to use when I'm in the classroom and when I begin to teach my impending son, Aiden (3 or 4 more weeks, dang it) math.  The multiplication table chart is a great idea, too.  I swear I nearly gave my Granddad a heart attack when he tried to teach me multiplication with flashcards.  Anything that will help Aiden learn more easily than I did is very welcome.

Your last paragraph is directly on base.  Too many teachers do only what is specifically required.  Too many do not go above and beyond the call of duty to bring learning alive for their students.  Too many just don't care.  If this continues as the norm we will end up with an easily led, pliable, uneducated majority.

Just as a side note, though, California may be doing poorly, but we in Indiana aren't winning any prizes either.  I'm a substitute teacher for Tippecanoe County Public Schools, and quite a bit of what I've witnessed is absolutely ridiculous.  Our test averages, required classes, attendance rates, and graduation rates leave quite a bit to be desired.  I've seen some great schools, but they are, unfortunately, in the minority.

_____________________________

"Oh, it's torture, but I'm almost there."
~The Cure

"I ask for so little. Just fear me, love me, do as I say, and I will be your slave."
~The Labyrinth

(in reply to ShiftedJewel)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Basic Math = A Sad Comentary - 7/10/2006 3:24:12 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		What Emperor said, I am not completely sure how to respond to it. But I'm going to try, and since Lam has not thrown the Racist label into the ring here, I think maybe this is unfounded.

One can take many statements more than one way. One day my boss asked me for something I did not have, he says "What good are you ?". I replied "Absolutley none, that's why I work here". Of course we were joking, but some people would really take that hard.

Now the last element of the original post seemed to ask the first question in Spanish. From this could imply one of two things, or both. Maybe LaM is right and certain forms of expression should be avoided in public forums, but I think he takes it too far, and Emperor may have gone too deep into political correctness as well.

The author of that piece had a certain intention. What it was we cannot be sure, ever. There are two possibilities as I see it.

One is that the author is a racist and implies that Hispanic kids are given an unfair advantage to make the numbers look good.

Two is that the author is not a racist and is protesting the unfair disadvantage to level out the scores. This is part of the 'no child left behind' bullshit.

In my school you would
remain in the fourth grade until you reach the entry level academic achievement required to get into the fifth grade. Age does not matter. Perhaps in younger years there is a reason to just pass them on, but you are creating more problems down the road. Remember that word 'achievement'.

Number two actually assumes that children of immigrants would normally score lower if not for some advantage. I have no figures on this, so we are talking imperical logic here. Let's say that it is true that kids of immigrants score lower. Now is stating the truth about a certain race racist ? We all know what a stereotype is, and conciously avoid it, but soimetimes me thinkst thou dost protest too much.

Realistically, OK, we are talking the US, so the OP was probably referrieng to Mexicans. Let's bring this into the mix. They come here to live in barrios and ghettos, what do you think they left ? This is their better life and actually I think they are getting let down. Figuratively they came out of the fire and jumped into our frying pan. Their dreams are only slightly realized, because it is not worse here.

The OP also has a point that English is indeed the official language here. Proficiency in that must be of prime importance. Oops, I meant the author. Anyway, to give certain questions in Spanish in the US might be ok, but not in math.

Our family emmigrated here four generations ago, approximately. The very first thing they did was to learn the language. We kept our heritage, but assimilated into the country. We did not want to change it to our specific needs, collect a check or have ballots printed in Polish. HA, think of this, in response to printing ballots in Spanish, democrats in Michigan IIRC wanted to have them printed in Arabic as well. Let's back the truck up a bit here.

I thought people wanted to come to the US for what it is, not to try to make it a satellite state of their country of origin. Ther country of origin was the fucking problem that caused them to come here. Where is the logic in turning the whole country into a new Babylon ?

If you want to understand Boyle's law or Ohm's law you need to be able to express yourself in English and recieve instruction in English. If you can't you are no good to industry anyway. That's the way it is.

What I can't see is that any child would be in a normal US school and not know English. This puzzles me. This is not supposed to happen. I hope the person who mentioned 'English as a second language' was not bitching. Any kids living here need to learn it to be functional members of society.

And last but not least, those who emmigrate to the US, or any other country for that matter, should start the process before they even leave. Learn the language and currency. Rules of the road whether they get driver's licenses or not, things like that. To echo the idea put forth before, that is the Parents' responsibility. Notice the apostrophe AFTER the 's', that means BOTH.

People think they can just have five kids, then fight all the time and then get divorced. NO !

This is what breeds these unteachable hellions, but not all the time. Glaring examples of genius can come from the most hellish of homes, but that doesn't make it right to impede the child like that. Thing is, buy your kids encyclopedias, and make sure they know how to read them. We had one coming a volume a month, and I read them cover to cover. Do you think this is happening in the ghetto ? Do you think this is happening in places people moved out of to move up to the ghetto ?

The human brain is like a machine, just like an arm or a leg. Without the correct input it does not function correctly. Not only in adulthood, when one only needs to sustain, more importantly when one is growing. This is more like leaving out certain parts when building something. Parents are building something. And they only get one chance.

That's my angle on it. I do wish I had learned at least one Latino type language when I was in school. Unilingual people are at a terrible disadvantage nowadays. I do not in any way say that kids in school shouldn't learn three or four languages, they should. I wish I did. The fact that others can communicate with each other right in front of you, but not with you because you can't understand is a very unacceptable situation.

Facts of life: Spanish speakers must know English to do any significant business in the US. English speakers must become multilingual.

Was the OP a racist ? I don't care. You are allowed to be racist, just don't hurt anyone, and that means the kids too. If you are a racist, you do not expose that to kids, just as you would not expose kink.

This is long enough, I'll be back.

T

(in reply to marieToo)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Basic Math = A Sad Comentary - 7/10/2006 7:42:45 PM   
GoddessDustyGold


Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kedikat

By the way.....

To all those who might chime in with agreement of the sorry state of education, particularly those with children.

WHAT HAVE YOU DONE ABOUT IT !




 
Beat the system?
I pulled My daughter out of the public education system after 4th grade.  I took her back a year, and home schooled her for the next 4 years.  Yes, she did 5 years of a strong curriculum in 4 years with My supervision.
She went on to high school, while continuing with a partial home school curriculum that was tranferred in to her transcript, and graduated third in her class.  She is now in college, on full scholarhsip, pulling a 4.0, attending school full time while working full time. She is well socialized, and is a bio-chem major. 
When she finished 4th grade she had vitually no math skills, hated reading, and had never been exposed to science.  In addition, she learned history...not social studies. 
I guess I did something about it.  And I was a single Mom. 


_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom


(in reply to Kedikat)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Basic Math = A Sad Comentary - 7/11/2006 12:24:47 AM   
marcpiery


Posts: 12
Joined: 7/5/2006
Status: offline 		Hello all. I'm going to throw in my 2 cents. As a California resident my entire life, I understand the backlash against manatory Spanish education. Here in Los Angeles, there are 360 odd languages spoken. Why should only one be treated with priority. Back when the Vietmamese boat people came, many of these people had never seen a city, let alone a school. One person I knew had came straight from a jungle. She made up an entire lifetime of education in two years, went to university, then to medical school. Two years into an Ophthalmology residency, I met her again. Her English was perfect, with no trace of an accent. She came from a tribe with no written language and ended up a gifted ophthalmological surgeon. There was no ESL for her in either Vietnamese or her tribal language. Also, she only went to public school. Now, we have a large population of Mexicans who outright refuse to learn english. This is not a matter of inconvenience, but of defiance. They do not recognize the sovereignty of the U.S. They look at this land as occupied Mexico, and join separatist organizations like Mecha, who want to take our land and rename it Azatlan! This last Independence Day, the Minutemen were marching in a parade in a southern California community. Mexicans were protesting them, calling them muderers and demanding that Americans get out of Azatlan! Hell, we have a bunch of Democratic politicians (Mexican-american) that are Mecha members and refuse to renownce their membership or the mission of the organization--the destruction of the United States. I'm sorry, but there are plenty of Americans from all over the world. My own heritage is Italian. My father came here in the late 1930's and fought in the U.S. Navy during WWII. He only allowed the English language spoken in our house as he loved his adopted country. He spoke 5 languages including his very obscure Genovese dialect. For him, it did not matter. He always said:"When in Rome, do as the Romans do." He is now buried in a V.A. National Cemetary, along with all the others that spilt blood for our country.

As for math? My friend learned Arithmatic through Calculus in English, a language she was learning concurrenly with the math. She did it. No excuses for anyone else I say.

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Basic Math = A Sad Comentary - 7/11/2006 1:56:13 AM   
BoleroMaster


Posts: 3
Joined: 1/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

The OP also has a point that English is indeed the official language here. Proficiency in that must be of prime importance. Oops, I meant the author. Anyway, to give certain questions in Spanish in the US might be ok, but not in math.



To point out to any reading this thread . . . that English is NOT the official language . . . in fact the United States is one of the very few countries in the world with no Official Language on the books or in law . . . if it was, then we could actually get people to learn it.

From the Wikipedia entry on "Official Language":

Some states, such as Sweden, Tuvalu, the United Kingdom, and the United States have no official language, although in most such cases there is a single de facto main language, as well as a range of government regulations and practices on which languages are expected to be used in various circumstances.


Just so my position is clear, I am very much for the passage of a Official Language. It has nothing to do with any one group in particular, but if I were to go to France, I would be spit on if I didn't learn to speak it eventually, and frankly in any other part of the world it would be the same. Can we have such arrogance as to expect schools, people, and businesses to change everything so we can get by easier?

I say this just to make the point, that I do not expect the world to change for me, and in turn, I expect that my part of the world, would not bend over and spread em for everyone else. If you want to live in the USA, learn english, what a concept. I'm not even asking for people to know all the laws, or even be able to do one math problem . . . just learn to communicate with your fellow citizens.

Teaching children in any language other than english as the primary source is wrong. If we offer other options, then super, but you've got to know english before I'll say its ok to take tests in another language.

Also some may question my political views, and I should say it in addition, that I did not vote for Bush, no, I disagree with republicans on almost every issue in fact. This topic of national pride, fairness, and culturalization is just something I get stuck on when I hear it.

I'll leave this topic with a quote from President Theodore Roosevelt,  "We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

-- S

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Basic Math = A Sad Comentary - 7/11/2006 2:18:38 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Wikipedia is full of shit. English has been the official language here for a long time. It was almost German, but English made it by one vote. Also, the laws are written in English here.

I don't need much more proof than that.

T

(in reply to BoleroMaster)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Basic Math = A Sad Comentary - 7/11/2006 5:52:18 AM   
Moloch


Posts: 1090
Joined: 6/25/2005
Status: offline 		Ok, if you chekd the news ENGLISH IS or official language.

(in reply to BoleroMaster)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Basic Math = A Sad Comentary - 7/13/2006 2:41:38 AM   
BoleroMaster


Posts: 3
Joined: 1/25/2005
Status: offline 		To clarify my point, English is our National Language, as was passed in a recent bill on May 19, 2006, by the US Senate. The bill stated that, "the federal government will no longer provide multilingual communications and services, except for those already guaranteed by law." However, this is not the same as an Official Language. An Official Language is a language that is given a privileged legal status in a state, or other legally-defined territory.

Some examples of national languages that are not official languages include Cherokee, and Navajo (and other living Native American languages). These languages are the National Language of particular reservations, but the Laws are still written in English in nearly all of these places . . . the way laws are written means nothing official without the content of an actual law to say that they must be.

So yes, we just recently got a National Language, but we still have no Official Language.

For some other reference, here are a few links to different sites that cover the issue. If you respond, please find out some information before you spout off on what you think to be correct.

US English is a group that is the largest political organization to take on the Language issue, as its main focus. They have a lot of other information there that can be read. http://www.us-english.org/

This is a good site talking about many different language issues, and the page I've linked is to their section on the Official Language debate. (Note: the site is against the establishment of one, but the facts they present are still un-biased and true, also why I gave it, another's viewpoint) http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jwcrawford/question.htm

As for bringing up the urban legend about German replacing English . . . look here, it is a in-depth look at the history of the myth. But to sum it up, the bill was to have the laws in Virginia be published in German as well as English. The issue was set to be killed, but lived onto review by the previously noted, "one vote". When it was reviewed a month or so later, it died in the state congress anyway. http://www.watzmann.net/scg/german-by-one-vote.html

Hopefully this will help clear up any misconceptions.

-- S

(in reply to Moloch)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Basic Math = A Sad Comentary - 7/13/2006 6:44:32 AM   
Evanesce


Posts: 2325
Joined: 9/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Your last paragraph is directly on base.  Too many teachers do only what is specifically required.  Too many do not go above and beyond the call of duty to bring learning alive for their students.  Too many just don't care.  If this continues as the norm we will end up with an easily led, pliable, uneducated majority.


To be fair, I don't think it's necessarily the teachers' fault that our children aren't learning what they need to learn.  In most school districts, inventive, individualized education is frowned upon by the school board, and parents have become so used to having their little "geniuses" pampered and promoted for no legitimate reason, that in many cases, teachers' hands are simply tied.  They're given a prescribed curriculum, and any variation from that directive results in disciplinary action. 
 
I work with two women whose daughters are both teachers, and you would not believe the frustration I've heard expressed by these young educators.  Personally, I think we need to stop drugging students, reinstate disciplinary action that actually disciplines, stop treating high school students like felons, empower teachers to actually teach, put music and extracurricular activities back into the schools WITHOUT charging students for them, and stop promoting students who can't pass basic skills tests.

_____________________________

Denise

Give a slave what he truly needs, and he will do what you want.

"There's never a hero in a battle of ego." - Big & Rich


(in reply to BoleroMaster)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Basic Math = A Sad Comentary - 7/13/2006 7:01:57 AM   
Sasy


Posts: 1387
Joined: 7/5/2004
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Teaching the basics ...  Oh come now that is unheard of these days ... All their time is spent teaching the children how to  take some idiotic state tests that dont gauge anything  but what about the test this child learned that the other one didnt.. The stress of these tests is having teachers and administrators fired every year for cheating ..... And yet a child exits high school unable to  count out change for  a dollar.  In my  childs case she is considered special ed ... (tho has an IQ of 118 ) who  has figured out if she doesnt want to  go  to school that  day all she has to  do is cuss and home she goes ... oh wait did I  forget to mention the 100 dollar ticket she comes home with ? By the time a child reaches the second grade all the curiousities of that  age have been leeched from them ... as they repeatedly hear ... I cant talk  about that  now we have to study for this test. Who is to  blame children cant count ... the child or the administration ... If they cant pass the test they cant  graduate ...  but they can graduate if they cant read makes no sense to me

(in reply to MasterRenegade77)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Basic Math = A Sad Comentary - 7/13/2006 8:30:40 AM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		What does any of this mean? Nothing in my opinion. Who cares where this country or that, ranks in engineering, math, science, etc ...
 
Does anyone actually think that a country like the United States is lacking in people that can push the window of technology? We don't need two-hundred and ninty million people that can build a space shuttle. We only need enough people so that we can build one. 
 
I graduated from a public High School in Texas, with a reputation as a football factory. I have nothing bad to say about the experience. A serious student that worked hard, was given the tools to get a great education. We even had enough parking.
 
I don't think we should spend tax dollars, ramming an education down the throat of kids that don't want to learn.
 
Garbage in, garbage out ... and if thats what you put in, you will probably end up collecting it.

(in reply to Sasy)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Basic Math = A Sad Comentary - 7/13/2006 8:47:58 AM   
MistressLorelei


Posts: 997
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

What does any of this mean? Nothing in my opinion. Who cares where this country or that, ranks in engineering, math, science, etc ...
 
Does anyone actually think that a country like the United States is lacking in people that can push the window of technology? We don't need two-hundred and ninty million people that can build a space shuttle. We only need enough people so that we can build one. 
 
I graduated from a public High School in Texas, with a reputation as a football factory. I have nothing bad to say about the experience. A serious student that worked hard, was given the tools to get a great education. We even had enough parking.
 
I don't think we should spend tax dollars, ramming an education down the throat of kids that don't want to learn.
 
Garbage in, garbage out ... and if thats what you put in, you will probably end up collecting it.


We don't need every kid to grow to space shuttle building proportions... but it's usually those who don't care about the quality of educating kids today who wind up complaining about them having no job skills when they grow up.... thus winding up in need of government support.

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Basic Math = A Sad Comentary - 7/13/2006 12:21:54 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressLorelei
We don't need every kid to grow to space shuttle building proportions... but it's usually those who don't care about the quality of educating kids today who wind up complaining about them having no job skills when they grow up.... thus winding up in need of government support.


Or kids that don't care about educating themselves, and then gripe because they were not "given" a good education.
 
Schools provide the tools a student needs to learn, not to force people to learn.

(in reply to MistressLorelei)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Basic Math = A Sad Comentary - 7/13/2006 12:31:27 PM   
Moloch


Posts: 1090
Joined: 6/25/2005
Status: offline 		Ehh our average exchange student from Europe in 9th grade could easly do 11th grade American math and physics.

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Basic Math = A Sad Comentary - 7/13/2006 12:33:53 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Which was my first point.  Algebra, trig, geometry and so on in gradeschool, and 'practical' mathematics in later life.  Foundations before applications.

Ron  

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Moloch)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Basic Math = A Sad Comentary - 7/13/2006 12:37:48 PM   
Moloch


Posts: 1090
Joined: 6/25/2005
Status: offline 		Trig and Geometry was optional when I was in school.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Basic Math = A Sad Comentary - 7/13/2006 12:47:16 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		well again, perhaps fasttracks for those who arent going to become geometers or whatever.

But you should know the 11 rules of algebra before you can go past gradeschool.

You should know how to count change and do concrete mathematics before you leave highschool.

you know what I mean, Moloch.  LOLOL.

American educational systems are fucked.  They have been plodding on this way since the average american Jethro never got beyond 3rd grade cipherin' and so they taught practicals too early and not enough theory when they could sponge it up to understand foundations.  So we do math and writing way too early and leave foundations like algebra and reading comprehension for highschool. 

It is upside down.

Ron 

(Oh, yeah...and fuck columbus (1492....isabella, the entire fuckoree) and the mangna carta (1066....William the Conquerer nee Bastard) unless you are going into college level history, we can't even remember that we shouldn't interfere in other countries internal affairs for more than 4 years.)  Let's not go back beyond our ken.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Moloch)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Basic Math = A Sad Comentary - 7/13/2006 1:58:26 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
American educational systems are fucked.


If that's the case, how do so many, get such a good education in that system?

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Basic Math = A Sad Comentary - 7/13/2006 3:17:46 PM   
MistressLorelei


Posts: 997
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressLorelei
We don't need every kid to grow to space shuttle building proportions... but it's usually those who don't care about the quality of educating kids today who wind up complaining about them having no job skills when they grow up.... thus winding up in need of government support.


Or kids that don't care about educating themselves, and then gripe because they were not "given" a good education.
 
Schools provide the tools a student needs to learn, not to force people to learn.


Kids are kids.... for the most part kids think they are invincible and that the world is their oyster.  They don't care about speeding  or seatbelt safety, proper nutrition, saving for the future. and often getting a good education.  Kids are not considered adults until they are already of the typical graduating age.  Minors often do dumb things, and make bad decisions... that's why special considerations are made for them.  

Lots of opportunities exist for kids that they would rather not take advantage of....  Most would choose a cute boy/girlfriend or new car over a good education, or a college fund.  Kids sometimes need encouragement and support to take the right paths, since they aren't fully capable of understanding what happens to many non-educated, untrained adults who aren't capable of holding a job that makes enough to pay the high price of rent these days. 

Turning our backs on them now, hurts all of us later.

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Basic Math = A Sad Comentary - 7/13/2006 3:44:52 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		????  Elaborate........  Where are the great washed?  Where are the young turks of intelligence and forward thinking.........perhaps they are submissive and have been ordered not to speak.  We engage in wars that do not concern us; repeatedly, we stand on the principle of no child left behind, but do not proffer the renumeration to drive that bus, we lag the world in life expectancy from the womb to the grave, we can't give out healthcare because that would bankrupt us and drive insurance and banking and pill mechanics into despair and destroy our quality of life, but the middle and lower class can be shat upon with impunity.  We can out CIA people because a husband is critical of government policy and they are immune, but god save us, we gotta out  anyone that might  think about sucking cock in  privacy, because it undoes the constitutional way of life.    so, I can go on and on caitlyn, but perhaps you are the young turk that will make it aright, but I am of the opinion that there is no education,you only do time, and then you are given a best rester star like kindergarden, and that makes you the bomb.......do the time and you can do the crime........but I am an old and jaded man......you are a fine young cannibal........

and I do think you are hot. But I am not too keen on the stocking cap thing...........


LOLOLOL,
Ron  


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 80
Page:   <<   < prev  1 2 3 [4] 5   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: Basic Math = A Sad Comentary Page: <<   < prev  1 2 3 [4] 5   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.109