RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"?

RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (Full Version)

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thompsonx -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/5/2016 3:53:51 PM)
ORIGINAL: lovmuffin ORIGINAL: thompsonx Remember, my position is for myself. What the cops or anyone else does is their karma and not mine. Yeah I get it. It's your stupid unsubstantiated phouqing position of which you have, nor is there, any validation. I have offered you an opportunity to see it validated. You have refused either because of a lack of balls and money or an abundance of common sense.

thompsonx -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/5/2016 3:55:55 PM)
ORIGINAL: lovmuffin ORIGINAL: thompsonx I did find this which totally destroys your shoot to wound loigic. That was one of the documents I had to wade through to find it said nothing pertinent to our discussion. It is about a law requiring cops to use less than lethal response. It is a cops opinion about that proposed law in a state that is not florida. I think you need to wade through that document again. This time read the last section, "Tactical Issues" again slowly. Ron Avory is a championship shooter and the head of the Practical Shooting Academy. It really doesn't matter that there as some kind of proposed legislation pertaining to law enforcement somewhere other than Florida or that it's a cops opinion, the same logic applies to civilians and you are the only [8\|] expert [8\|] I know of that would disagree. Should I get an adult to explain it to ya? Nothing in that article shows that it is illegal to wound rather than kill.

BamaD -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/5/2016 4:21:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDizzyChick LOL This is hilarious! I haven't followed this thread and have no intention of starting to do so. I can guess that it involves people tying themselves in knots about the fact that people regularly get killed when they're shot in self defence, but that's unavoidable (and indeed both legally and morally acceptable) - while those who don't use guns to defend themselves have a far greater burden on them to make sure that their attacker(s) remain alive. This is a USA-focused debate, and in the USA, extreme positions on personal defence, guns and, most importantly of all, killing - are considered 'moderate'. It's bound to make us non-Americans feel baffled and bemused. Or even amused (though I can't say I feel the laughs just yet). No, you didn't read the begining. If you shoot an attacker, falls down and drops his gun, then you stand over him and continue fireing they go to jail. This thread began because someone in another thread suggested that 5 people should have taken the gun away from a guy (shooting started when someone reached for the gun) then the 5 of him should have beaten the guy to death. If they attack someone who snaps their neck by whatever means and it kills them they are clearly under no particular restriction not to have done so. However if comes after a "victim" who smashes his knee with a baseball bat, then proceeds to beat him while he is lying there screaming in pain. The point of the thread was the opposite of what you presumed, that you have the same restrictions when you don't have a firearm that you have when you do. Thanks, at least you are on topic.

lovmuffin -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/5/2016 4:40:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx ORIGINAL: lovmuffin ORIGINAL: thompsonx I did find this which totally destroys your shoot to wound loigic. That was one of the documents I had to wade through to find it said nothing pertinent to our discussion. It is about a law requiring cops to use less than lethal response. It is a cops opinion about that proposed law in a state that is not florida. I think you need to wade through that document again. This time read the last section, "Tactical Issues" again slowly. Ron Avory is a championship shooter and the head of the Practical Shooting Academy. It really doesn't matter that there as some kind of proposed legislation pertaining to law enforcement somewhere other than Florida or that it's a cops opinion, the same logic applies to civilians and you are the only [8\|] expert [8\|] I know of that would disagree. Should I get an adult to explain it to ya? Nothing in that article shows that it is illegal to wound rather than kill. You are correct, nothing in the article shows it is illegal to wound rather than kill. What the article does is substantiate that your ignorant unsubstantiated opinion is invalid. In other words, shuting to woond is phouqing stoopid. Should I have an adult splain it to ya ?

thompsonx -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/5/2016 4:52:08 PM)
ORIGINAL: lovmuffin You are correct, nothing in the article shows it is illegal to wound rather than kill. Then what are you arguing about? What the article does is substantiate that your ignorant unsubstantiated opinion is invalid. In other words, shuting to woond is phouqing stoopid. Should I have an adult splain it to ya ? No it is simply his opinion. it validates nothing. Perhaps you might want to get an adult to splan it to ya.[8\|]

lovmuffin -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/5/2016 4:53:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx ORIGINAL: lovmuffin ORIGINAL: thompsonx Remember, my position is for myself. What the cops or anyone else does is their karma and not mine. Yeah I get it. It's your stupid unsubstantiated phouqing position of which you have, nor is there, any validation. I have offered you an opportunity to see it validated. You have refused either because of a lack of balls and money or an abundance of common sense. I haven't refused anything except refusing to buy into your demonstration proposal that's never going to happen in the first place. Should I have my lawyer call your lawyer and splain that to you also ?

BamaD -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/5/2016 4:57:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx ORIGINAL: lovmuffin ORIGINAL: thompsonx Remember, my position is for myself. What the cops or anyone else does is their karma and not mine. Yeah I get it. It's your stupid unsubstantiated phouqing position of which you have, nor is there, any validation. I have offered you an opportunity to see it validated. You have refused either because of a lack of balls and money or an abundance of common sense. I haven't refused anything except refusing to buy into your demonstration proposal that's never going to happen in the first place. Should I have my lawyer call your lawyer and splain that to you also ? As that side descussion has evolved I find it hard to believe that any lawyer will participate in an agreement that will allow one person to shoot another.

lovmuffin -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/5/2016 5:07:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx ORIGINAL: lovmuffin You are correct, nothing in the article shows it is illegal to wound rather than kill. Then what are you arguing about? What the article does is substantiate that your ignorant unsubstantiated opinion is invalid. In other words, shuting to woond is phouqing stoopid. Should I have an adult splain it to ya ? No it is simply his opinion. it validates nothing. Perhaps you might want to get an adult to splan it to ya.[8\|] I'm arguing that in a situation that warrants deadly force, shooting to wound is stupid. And actually it's an expert opinion which is corroborated by all if not most other experts vs your opinion that isn't worth the price of used shit paper. I think you'll need an adult to splain that one to you also ?

lovmuffin -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/5/2016 5:14:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx ORIGINAL: lovmuffin ORIGINAL: thompsonx Remember, my position is for myself. What the cops or anyone else does is their karma and not mine. Yeah I get it. It's your stupid unsubstantiated phouqing position of which you have, nor is there, any validation. I have offered you an opportunity to see it validated. You have refused either because of a lack of balls and money or an abundance of common sense. I haven't refused anything except refusing to buy into your demonstration proposal that's never going to happen in the first place. Should I have my lawyer call your lawyer and splain that to you also ? As that side descussion has evolved I find it hard to believe that any lawyer will participate in an agreement that will allow one person to shoot another. Not in Thompson Erpps unsubstantiated invalid expert opinion. Maybe my lawyer should get together with your lawyer and splain it to Thompson s lawyer [8D]

BamaD -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/5/2016 5:23:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx ORIGINAL: lovmuffin ORIGINAL: thompsonx Remember, my position is for myself. What the cops or anyone else does is their karma and not mine. Yeah I get it. It's your stupid unsubstantiated phouqing position of which you have, nor is there, any validation. I have offered you an opportunity to see it validated. You have refused either because of a lack of balls and money or an abundance of common sense. I haven't refused anything except refusing to buy into your demonstration proposal that's never going to happen in the first place. Should I have my lawyer call your lawyer and splain that to you also ? As that side descussion has evolved I find it hard to believe that any lawyer will participate in an agreement that will allow one person to shoot another. Not in Thompson Erpps unsubstantiated invalid expert opinion. Maybe my lawyer should get together with your lawyer and splain it to Thompson s lawyer [8D] Conspiracy to commit feloneous assault. Don't see lawyers lineing up for than.

thompsonx -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/5/2016 5:24:47 PM)
ORIGINAL: BamaD As that side descussion has evolved I find it hard to believe that any lawyer will participate in an agreement that will allow one person to shoot another. Perhaps you might check with your lawyer about a simple release of liability.

thompsonx -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/5/2016 5:26:36 PM)
ORIGINAL: lovmuffin Not in Thompson Erpps unsubstantiated invalid expert opinion. Maybe my lawyer should get together with your lawyer and splain it to Thompson s lawyer [8D] Perhaps you might check with your lawyer about a simple release of liability.

lovmuffin -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/5/2016 5:29:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx ORIGINAL: lovmuffin Not in Thompson Erpps unsubstantiated invalid expert opinion. Maybe my lawyer should get together with your lawyer and splain it to Thompson s lawyer [8D] Perhaps you might check with your lawyer about a simple release of liability. You mean check with my lawyer pertaining to your silly validation demonstration that's never going to happen ? I'll get right on it

thompsonx -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/5/2016 5:32:31 PM)
ORIGINAL: lovmuffin ORIGINAL: thompsonx I'm arguing that in a situation that warrants deadly force, shooting to wound is stupid. Who decided what stuation "warrants" deadly force? And actually it's an expert opinion which is corroborated by all if not most other experts All of your experts are cops who are pimping a cop agenda. vs your opinion that isn't worth the price of used shit paper. I think you'll need an adult to splain that one to you also ? I do not need you or any of your cop experts to explain my opinion to me.

thompsonx -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/5/2016 5:36:00 PM)
ORIGINAL: lovmuffin ORIGINAL: thompsonx Perhaps you might check with your lawyer about a simple release of liability. You mean check with my lawyer pertaining to your silly validation demonstration that's never going to happen ? Another one with an excess of mouth and a lack of intestinal fortitude and money. You have made a wise decission young man. You will continue to walk without a iimp. I'll get right on it That will certainly disabuse you of your ignorance.

epiphiny43 -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/5/2016 5:42:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx ORIGINAL: lovmuffin Not in Thompson Erpps unsubstantiated invalid expert opinion. Maybe my lawyer should get together with your lawyer and splain it to Thompson s lawyer [8D] Perhaps you might check with your lawyer about a simple release of liability. NO 'release' or contract absolves from criminal responsibility. Any that covers criminal behavior is invalid on it's face. Agreements between individuals govern legally enforceable interactions between the two. No agreement involving criminal behavior is enforceable or valid. Criminal law is the State regulating conduct and can't be superseded by private agreement. BDSM folks have been all over this issue, to no avail. Keep up? It May help with civil liability, where Preponderance of Evidence (50% of responsibility) is more the rule. A judge or prosecuter may just have both parties (Surviving) charged with criminal conspiracy. Same as assisted suicide with a survivor under certain jurisdiction's codes.

lovmuffin -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/5/2016 5:44:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx ORIGINAL: lovmuffin ORIGINAL: thompsonx I'm arguing that in a situation that warrants deadly force, shooting to wound is stupid. Who decided what stuation "warrants" deadly force? And actually it's an expert opinion which is corroborated by all if not most other experts All of your experts are cops who are pimping a cop agenda. vs your opinion that isn't worth the price of used shit paper. I think you'll need an adult to splain that one to you also ? I do not need you or any of your cop experts to explain my opinion to me. 1) Anyone who happens to be armed who is confronted with a life threatening situation. 2) Certainly not all practical shooting experts are cops. What other experts besides yourself can validate your opinion. The same tactical issues apply to civilians. 3) No, but you do need someone to explain how phouqing stoopid your unsubstantiated invalid opinion actually is.

thompsonx -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/5/2016 5:58:00 PM)
ORIGINAL: epiphiny43 ORIGINAL: thompsonx NO 'release' or contract absolves from criminal responsibility. Any that covers criminal behavior is invalid on it's face. Agreements between individuals govern legally enforceable interactions between the two. No agreement involving criminal behavior is enforceable or valid. Criminal law is the State regulating conduct and can't be superseded by private agreement. BDSM folks have been all over this issue, to no avail. Keep up? It May help with civil liability, where Preponderance of Evidence (50% of responsibility) is more the rule. A judge or prosecuter may just have both parties (Surviving) charged with criminal conspiracy. Same as assisted suicide with a survivor under certain jurisdiction's codes. You are assuming a criminal conspiracy. That is not the issue here. Consider the release of liability one signs when one goes sky diving. I recently had the opportunity to drive a high powered race car at the cailfornia speedway(irwindale event center). Standard 12 page boilerplate release of liability while participatig in a potentially dangerous enterprise. Yes I have spoken with base legal about this issue. Their only concern was with the criminal prohibition against dueling. They assured me that since I would be the only one with a gun it would not be a duel.

thompsonx -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/5/2016 6:03:27 PM)
ORIGINAL: lovmuffin ORIGINAL: thompsonx 1) Anyone who happens to be armed who is confronted with a life threatening situation. How convenient that the shooter is the one who decides. I have conveniently chosen not to take another life when I can simply remove the threat in a non lethal maner. 2) Certainly not all practical shooting experts are cops. All that you have brought forward have been cops or copsuckers who validate that they cannot hit what they aim at unless it happens to be com

lovmuffin -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/5/2016 6:10:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx ORIGINAL: lovmuffin ORIGINAL: thompsonx Perhaps you might check with your lawyer about a simple release of liability. You mean check with my lawyer pertaining to your silly validation demonstration that's never going to happen ? Another one with an excess of mouth and a lack of intestinal fortitude and money. You have made a wise decission young man. You will continue to walk without a iimp. The only wise decision I've made is not to entertain your stupid discussion about a validation demonstration that is not only clearly illegal but isn't ever going to happen in the first place. I don't know how I could possibly make that any more clear to you. You really do need an adult to splain it to ya. But go ahead Mr Blowhard continue talking your talk.

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