RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"?

RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (Full Version)

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WinsomeDefiance -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/6/2016 5:19:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub I don't know... I've never heard of a Big Mac walking into a kindergarten and shooting children full of holes. Butch I understand that gun control is a very sensitive topic and people feel strongly about it. I regret my playful and flippant joking around was done without keeping this in mind.

Nnanji -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/6/2016 5:23:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx ORIGINAL: Nnanji With respect I'd like to point out that statistics such as you list above are often used unreasonably. Most, if not all, of those 14-16 year olds will be gang bangers who've been banging for years by that age. If this were true you should be able to document your opinion with court cases. The anti-gun crowd always talk about kids being killed by people they know with guns. When in fact it's gang bangers killing people they know in another gang and they happen to be under the age of 25. In fact they have laws to try those bad young people, not children in any sense you'd know, in court as adults because they just aren't kids. There are some specific cases where that sort of foolishness is done. A simple google search would allow you to discover at what age medical doctors agree that the human brain is fully formed and capable of making rational decissions. There is a reason why there is an age restriction for being a congressman,senator or president in this country. It would follow from that why the age restriction for joining the military is so low. What adult with a fully formed brain would join the military? When you document your CIA assassins I'll document the gang bangers home invasions. Oh...and...the Air Force still gives pilots .22's. It's not to shoot bad guys while escaping and evading. It's to provide food while escaping and evading.

Cinnamongirl67 -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/6/2016 5:24:33 PM)
http://youtu.be/DWbQ3xOazNU

thompsonx -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/6/2016 5:24:53 PM)
ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance ORIGINAL: kdsub I don't know... I've never heard of a Big Mac walking into a kindergarten and shooting children full of holes. I understand that gun control is a very sensitive topic and people feel strongly about it. I regret my playful and flippant joking around was done without keeping this in mind. I believe that gun control means using both hands....and breath,relax,aim,slack,squeeze. By this metric tagging a toe at 25yards is not a big deal.[;)]

lovmuffin -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/6/2016 5:32:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx ORIGINAL: lovmuffin ORIGINAL: thompsonx ORIGINAL: BamaD Shooting to wound or to warn also, in court, lends credence to the idea that you didn't have fear for your life. Really????how so??? If ya didn't play 20 snarky questions all the time, maybe he would address your concern. When you say stupid things like the above I would like you to prove where you got that information. I know where you got it. It came from the same place you got all of your "shoot for center of mass" crap. When we go and look at who actually gets convicted of shooting to disable or firing a warning shot we find that seldom does someone get convicted. And when they are convicted it is for something like a stolen gun or felon in possession of a firearm. So when I ask someone to justify their idiotic rhetoric they cop an attitude like you are doing because you feel the truth will make you look foolish. That's what you do much of the time. Ya play 20 questions with a snarky know it all attitude. Shoot for center of mass is crap you say ? I doubt if you'd find many who agree with that. When we go and look at who actually gets convicted of shooting to disable or firing a warning shot we find that seldom does someone get convicted. Who's we, ya got a mouse in yer pocket ? In Florida because of the 10/20/life law, warning shots have a bunch of people in jail who don't belong there. Look it up if you don't believe me. And when they are convicted it is for something like a stolen gun or felon in possession of a firearm. I seriously doubt you can find much of anything where this is true for a crime victim defending themselves by shooting to wound or firing a warning shot. And I have no rhetoric. I'm simply stating that shooting to wound is a bad idea, nothing more, nothing less. My attitude has more to do with you personally and your Blowhard bully crap, not because I feel the truth will make me look foolish. The real truth is, shooting to wound is a bad idea.

thompsonx -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/6/2016 5:37:43 PM)
ORIGINAL: lovmuffin ORIGINAL: thompsonx In Florida because of the 10/20/life law, warning shots have a bunch of people in jail who don't belong there. Look it up if you don't believe me. Your statement is not my responsibility to validate.

Cinnamongirl67 -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/6/2016 5:46:07 PM)
Where I come from we highly value our police. They do this kind of civil service every day. This young man, who was nearly as big as Godzilla and as pissed, was most likely high. There was no reasoning with him. He was taken to jail not killed. If someone entered my home, with this attitude I wouldn't be aiming at toes as a civilian.

lovmuffin -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/6/2016 5:52:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx Once again, you don't want to consider that the less than lethal option works for me and want to call me stupid for not agreeing with you. You are not content to agree to disagree you seem to feel that I must come around to your way of thinking. I have told you several times what I do works for me and you and all the other chairborn rangers can do as you please. I am not trying to convince you to change your mind. I am simply pointing out my opinion. I have never called you stupid for not agreeing with me. I have pointed out that your less than leathal tactical option is stupid. I have however called you a Blowhard and a bully for the way you come at me and others when there are points of contention. I'm not even trying to get you to come around to my way of thinking but this is after all a debate and discussion forum. Okay, so let's just agree to disagree if that's what you want, fine by me. And even though I don't believe you can double tap a one inch moving target at 25 yards in a third of a second, I promise I won't call you a liar.

Nnanji -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/6/2016 5:59:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx ORIGINAL: lovmuffin ORIGINAL: thompsonx ORIGINAL: BamaD Shooting to wound or to warn also, in court, lends credence to the idea that you didn't have fear for your life. Really????how so??? In California law...you look it up, I have...the Castle Doctrine states that you may use deadly force if you are in imminent danger of death or great bodily injury. The law presumes you had the right to use deadly force unless the prosecutor can provide contrary evidence. Shooting to wound is such evidence, shooting warning shots is such evidence. Actually, shooting to warn turns the roles around and legally provides the home invader with evidence that his/her life is in imminent danger. It takes a well trained person about 1/4 second to get a shot off with a Glock. (Again, you look it up.). It takes a person 18/100's of a second to raise a hand from the waists to the shoulder. It's pretty impossible to hit a hand except by luck. A toe would be very similar. In the clay target Trap shooting, a clay target is about a third the size of my foot. Except for handicap Trap, it's shot with a shotgun from 16 yards. Rarely do people break all the Traps. So, I'd say your ability to hit a moving toe with a handgun at 25 yards should be good enough to get you into competition...or the circus.

lovmuffin -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/6/2016 5:59:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub I don't know... I've never heard of a Big Mac walking into a kindergarten and shooting children full of holes. Butch I understand that gun control is a very sensitive topic and people feel strongly about it. I regret my playful and flippant joking around was done without keeping this in mind. We need some playful and flippant joking around here. Peon does it all the time on these threads even though we all know he doesn't like guns much. He's quite amusing and it makes him much more palatable [8D]

Cinnamongirl67 -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/6/2016 6:02:15 PM)
Oh for Gods sake, just go private.

WinsomeDefiance -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/6/2016 6:03:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub I don't know... I've never heard of a Big Mac walking into a kindergarten and shooting children full of holes. Butch I understand that gun control is a very sensitive topic and people feel strongly about it. I regret my playful and flippant joking around was done without keeping this in mind. We need some playful and flippant joking around here. Peon does it all the time on these threads even though we all know he doesn't like guns much. He's quite amusing and it makes him much more palatable [8D] I thought it was his abs that made him edible.I mean palatble [:D]

thompsonx -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/6/2016 6:10:39 PM)
ORIGINAL: Nnanji When you document your CIA assassins I'll document the gang bangers home invasions. The High Standard HDM is a semiautomatic pistol equipped with an integral sound suppressor.[1] Based on the High Standard HD model target pistol, it was adopted by the Office of Strategic Services (OSS) during World War II. OSS head Bill Donovan demonstrated the pistol to President Franklin Roosevelt inside the Oval Office. Because of legal concerns during wartime, full-metal-jacketed .22 LR rounds were developed for this pistol. It is still found in United States inventories, including that of the CIA, United States Marines, and Special Forces https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Standard_HDM Oh...and...the Air Force still gives pilots .22's. It's not to shoot bad guys while escaping and evading. It's to provide food while escaping and evading. I did not mention the air farce. I mentioned gary powers who worked for the cia...and got hosed by the air farce when he was released from prison. His weapon was silenced...you do not need a silenced pistol to hunt rabits.

BamaD -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/6/2016 6:12:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Cinnamongirl67 Where I come from we highly value our police. They do this kind of civil service every day. This young man, who was nearly as big as Godzilla and as pissed, was most likely high. There was no reasoning with him. He was taken to jail not killed. If someone entered my home, with this attitude I wouldn't be aiming at toes as a civilian. Not trying to be argumentative, but how many cops took him down to arrest him without killing him? Definately more than one I would think.

lovmuffin -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/6/2016 6:15:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx Except for the fact that it is not true. You have yet to produce one court case where a less than lethal shot got the shooter convicted for anything. Try here: www.http//googleshootingtowoundisstoopudandyouwillfindmorelinkstoshitthanicouldevertypeoutonasinayearthatwilladdressyourinquirey

thompsonx -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/6/2016 6:15:47 PM)
ORIGINAL: Cinnamongirl67 Where I come from we highly value our police. They do this kind of civil service every day. This young man, who was nearly as big as Godzilla and as pissed, was most likely high. There was no reasoning with him. He was taken to jail not killed. If someone entered my home, with this attitude I wouldn't be aiming at toes as a civilian. More chin music

BamaD -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/6/2016 6:15:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nnanji quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx ORIGINAL: lovmuffin ORIGINAL: thompsonx ORIGINAL: BamaD Shooting to wound or to warn also, in court, lends credence to the idea that you didn't have fear for your life. Really????how so??? In California law...you look it up, I have...the Castle Doctrine states that you may use deadly force if you are in imminent danger of death or great bodily injury. The law presumes you had the right to use deadly force unless the prosecutor can provide contrary evidence. Shooting to wound is such evidence, shooting warning shots is such evidence. Actually, shooting to warn turns the roles around and legally provides the home invader with evidence that his/her life is in imminent danger. It takes a well trained person about 1/4 second to get a shot off with a Glock. (Again, you look it up.). It takes a person 18/100's of a second to raise a hand from the waists to the shoulder. It's pretty impossible to hit a hand except by luck. A toe would be very similar. In the clay target Trap shooting, a clay target is about a third the size of my foot. Except for handicap Trap, it's shot with a shotgun from 16 yards. Rarely do people break all the Traps. So, I'd say your ability to hit a moving toe with a handgun at 25 yards should be good enough to get you into competition...or the circus. This is in line with what I said earlier. While shooting not to kill may not in and of itself be a crime, it can and is used as evidence against the person trying to defend themselves without harming the poor unfortunate criminal.

lovmuffin -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/6/2016 6:18:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub I don't know... I've never heard of a Big Mac walking into a kindergarten and shooting children full of holes. Butch I understand that gun control is a very sensitive topic and people feel strongly about it. I regret my playful and flippant joking around was done without keeping this in mind. We need some playful and flippant joking around here. Peon does it all the time on these threads even though we all know he doesn't like guns much. He's quite amusing and it makes him much more palatable [8D] I thought it was his abs that made him edible.I mean palatble [:D] LOL For you maybe [8D]

Nnanji -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/6/2016 6:19:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovmuffin quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx Once again, you don't want to consider that the less than lethal option works for me and want to call me stupid for not agreeing with you. You are not content to agree to disagree you seem to feel that I must come around to your way of thinking. I have told you several times what I do works for me and you and all the other chairborn rangers can do as you please. I am not trying to convince you to change your mind. I am simply pointing out my opinion. I have never called you stupid for not agreeing with me. I have pointed out that your less than leathal tactical option is stupid. I have however called you a Blowhard and a bully for the way you come at me and others when there are points of contention. I'm not even trying to get you to come around to my way of thinking but this is after all a debate and discussion forum. Okay, so let's just agree to disagree if that's what you want, fine by me. And even though I don't believe you can double tap a one inch moving target at 25 yards in a third of a second, I promise I won't call you a liar. It should be pointed out that the Castle Doctrine gives a person the right to use lethal force. It does not give a person the right to non-lethal maiming. Non-lethally maiming is not legal, as far as I know, anywhere. I'm not saying Castle Doctrine laws can't be changed to allow non-lethal maiming if enough people are idiots enough to want it. But I will bet a dollar to a donut there is no such law now. So not only could he not double tap a moving toe at 25 yards, attempting to do so would be illigal and give the home invader the right to claim his life was in imminent danger and legally use deadly force in return. Which, by the way, most felons picked up by police after being in a gunfight actually do claim.

Cinnamongirl67 -> RE: Does self defense allow you to beat someone to death"? (4/6/2016 6:20:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: Cinnamongirl67 Where I come from we highly value our police. They do this kind of civil service every day. This young man, who was nearly as big as Godzilla and as pissed, was most likely high. There was no reasoning with him. He was taken to jail not killed. If someone entered my home, with this attitude I wouldn't be aiming at toes as a civilian. Not trying to be argumentative, but how many cops took him down to arrest him without killing him? Definately more than one I would think. You saw how many, at least a bakers dozen.

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