Irony

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ThePrincessKali -> Irony (6/9/2014 9:59:42 AM)
I have a question for those listed as submissive. I get dozens of messages with literal lists of things the submissive expects me to do. No mention of what might please me. But then a few sentences about how I'm the superior one, they are so unworthy, blah, blah. Personally I wouldn't really consider this submissive behavior. I know I do indulge in financial domination so I'm sure I'm more susceptible to this than Domme's who are exclusively lifestyle. But even in those cases when I mention that I'm a Fin Domme they have no desire to pay. Just the expectation I will take time out of my life to do something that most likely won't interest me at all for the sole purpose of pleasing a stranger. I don't really consider that to be submissive, in fact I find it a bit ironic as that seems more dominate behavior. Maybe it would help to have an option as a "bottom" rather than a submissive so it would be easier to differentiate. So my question is for those who identify as submissive, males in particular, do you just seek out a woman who will just do whatever gets you off or do some of you seek to serve and make your Domme happy? And if you do prefer someone who will just carry out your laundry list of fetishes with no reciprocation on your part, why list yourself as submissive? That seems like a very one sided relationship or arrangement to me.

DesFIP -> RE: Irony (6/9/2014 10:18:19 AM)
There is no option of bottom on this site. If there were, I'm sure people would use it. With that said, I see nothing wrong with someone saying "this is the kind of play I enjoy, I'm looking for a partner who enjoys it also". Where is it written that subs can't look for compatibility and don't get to be happy?

AthenaSurrenders -> RE: Irony (6/9/2014 11:29:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThePrincessKali I have a question for those listed as submissive. I get dozens of messages with literal lists of things the submissive expects me to do. No mention of what might please me. But then a few sentences about how I'm the superior one, they are so unworthy, blah, blah. Personally I wouldn't really consider this submissive behavior. I know I do indulge in financial domination so I'm sure I'm more susceptible to this than Domme's who are exclusively lifestyle. But even in those cases when I mention that I'm a Fin Domme they have no desire to pay. Just the expectation I will take time out of my life to do something that most likely won't interest me at all for the sole purpose of pleasing a stranger. I don't really consider that to be submissive, in fact I find it a bit ironic as that seems more dominate behavior. Maybe it would help to have an option as a "bottom" rather than a submissive so it would be easier to differentiate. So my question is for those who identify as submissive, males in particular, do you just seek out a woman who will just do whatever gets you off or do some of you seek to serve and make your Domme happy? And if you do prefer someone who will just carry out your laundry list of fetishes with no reciprocation on your part, why list yourself as submissive? That seems like a very one sided relationship or arrangement to me. You are thinking too rationally. The type of people who send laundry lists of sexual requests are generally so contaminated by porn and fantasy that they really do think that list WILL make you happy. They have spent so many hours watching femdom porn and inventing their own masturbatory script, they have long forgotten that dominant women are still regular humans with their own tastes and personalities. They see you as a power and sex crazed ice queen who spends every moment scheming cruel ways to sexually torture submissives. They don't offer ways to serve you, because in fantasy land, offering up their penis and butthole IS making a dominant woman happy. Naturally you will just be thrilled to have the opportunity to act out his favourite porno scene, because you're a domme. That's how it is in porn. All femdoms are incredibly aroused by insert his favourite fetish here and all subs are relatively anonymous, interchangable bodies, so all he has to do is send you his checklist and voila! The 'I am so unworthy' speech is just part of the game. Yes I suspect you probably do get more of this because you're a femdom, so at least some people will see this as ordering off a menu. Des makes a good point that 'bottom' isn't an option (though I suspect a lot would still tick 'submissive' either because they think that's more desirable or because it's not as widely known as a term). Des - I agree it's healthy and reasonable for a sub to have his own tastes and needs, but I've had lots of messages like Kali describes and they don't come across as a guy negotiating mutual enjoyment or being up front about their preferences. There is a huge difference between 'I'm looking for a relationship/play session and X, Y and Z are important aspects to me, does that match up with your kinks?' and 'hi mistress i want you to do A, B, and C, call me D, then do E,F,G and I am so great at oral I will do it all night'. The latter appears to be written dick in hand and has a different tone entirely, I think.

ThePrincessKali -> RE: Irony (6/9/2014 11:53:00 AM)
Des, I have no problem with messages like that. But that's not really the types of messages I was referring to. Athena, that does make sense. I suppose it's the same for vanilla guys who think women will be thrilled to have them jizz all over their faces bc, hey the girls in porn seem to love it. I got a message this morning that literally had a numerical list of things I was suppose to do to a man including the amount of time I would be performing each action. Never once was there any mention of what might interest me so that's what prompted this post.

DesFIP -> RE: Irony (6/9/2014 1:08:21 PM)
Yes, I know dommes get a lot of it. But your op didn't specify. I think all women get a lot of it. Subs get it from guys who don't read our profiles or believe that they're a special snowflake and something that you hard limit will be something you automatically love when he does it. My personal belief is that they can write but not read!

Killerangel -> RE: Irony (6/9/2014 5:12:17 PM)
Guys on both D/s sides do this, they project what they want for themselves onto a partner. They think that because they want a, b, c, there is a corresponding woman out there that wants a, b, c and they won't have to sell this to her....she'll be on board immediately because they're as obsessed with it as they are. There was a thread once where a male submissive poster asked why it was so hard to find a woman who wanted to get kinky with him, of course he had specific activities in mind. He got plenty of the standard answers from women saying the standard things about not being up to participate in a stranger's sexual fantasies, and he stated that he just didn't get it, if he was out here wanting a certain thing, there had to be a corresponding female out there wanting the same thing. He kept insisting that it had to be true, there was a woman out there that wanted exactly the same things he did. So very many men seem to think that because they have thoughts that make them horny, there are women out there having the same thoughts. They never seem to understand the women they are targeting are separate people with wants/needs/desires personal to them. These guys just keep persisting with the thought that because they're here with their hands out, eventually they'll find someone wanting what they want.

GoddessManko -> RE: Irony (6/9/2014 5:36:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP There is no option of bottom on this site. If there were, I'm sure people would use it. With that said, I see nothing wrong with someone saying "this is the kind of play I enjoy, I'm looking for a partner who enjoys it also". Where is it written that subs can't look for compatibility and don't get to be happy? Interesting point, perhaps there should be a "bottom" option. I like the profile side but yes, even us lifestyle Dommes experience the same thing MORE OFTEN THAN NOT except since we don't charge them to communicate with us, they believe it's a green light to waste our time, you smart gal, Princess Kali. I am giving all findommes throughout the internet a high 5 on repelling the fetishists and time wasters by making sure they go through a vigilant screening of their choosing, haha. :)

Spiritedsub2 -> RE: Irony (6/9/2014 7:54:22 PM)
I am inclined to think the problem is even more fundamental. I have noticed for awhile that a large percentage of men believe that women think like men, just with different sexual bodies; that women "want" the way men do. If I'm right, it may be why so many men seem to believe that porn is "real" in the sense that the women actors are really enjoying it, really having those screaming orgasms no matter what the sexual action is. The profile dick pics are emblematic of this. So men expect women here to respond similarly on sites like this the way the men would. And they are frustrated and sometimes hostile when we don't, the symptoms of an underlying genuine bewilderment. There are some men far more sophisticated. They know that women don't think the way men do sexually, and that knowledge and understanding shines from their posts. They are pretty rare.

FieryOpal -> RE: Irony (6/10/2014 2:05:11 AM)
As of this writing, I regret to inform you Kali, that there is no known cure for this condition, which most often afflicts male BDSM bottoms/wannabe-submissives (due to sheer numbers). There are two forms of DO-ME-itis, namely: -- Fuckwititis = (Clueless) Male-specific mental condition most often caused by FemDom porn contamination. Detoxification requires going cold turkey from watching ANY and ALL porn in order to efficaciously manage recurrence of "subfever," a misnomer for "bottom fever," aka "MAKE ME YOUR BITCH SLUT-WHORE." -- Asshatitis = (Clueless) Male-specific mental condition. Causation unknown. Theories range from a combination of OCD with borderline personality disorder, along with porn contamination. Partial treatment directed toward porn saturation consists of detoxification, requiring going cold turkey from watching ANY and ALL porn in order to efficaciously manage this portion of complex disorder to avoid recurrence of "Dom-fever," aka "Dom-frenzy," aka "I AM A SELF-PROCLAIMED MASTER (even though I can't dominate my way out of a wet paper bag)." NOTE: Male S/switches fall somewhere between both ends of the spectrum. I hope this information has been helpful to you in some small way. [:)]

thompsonx -> RE: Irony (6/10/2014 9:36:04 AM)
ORIGINAL: GoddessManko Interesting point, perhaps there should be a "bottom" option. I like the profile side but yes, even us lifestyle Dommes experience the same thing MORE OFTEN THAN NOT except since we don't charge them to communicate with us, Does the car salesman charge you to discuss the aspects and price of the car you want to buy? You are in a comercial enterprise for you not to expect to have advertising costs is not realistic. they believe it's a green light to waste our time, I know you might perfer that they simply sent you their credit card numbers and pin but if someone is paying for a service why are they not entitled to discuss their purchase for free?

thompsonx -> RE: Irony (6/10/2014 9:38:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FieryOpal As of this writing, I regret to inform you Kali, that there is no known cure for this condition, which most often afflicts male BDSM bottoms/wannabe-submissives (due to sheer numbers). There are two forms of DO-ME-itis, namely: -- Fuckwititis = (Clueless) Male-specific mental condition most often caused by FemDom porn contamination. Detoxification requires going cold turkey from watching ANY and ALL porn in order to efficaciously manage recurrence of "subfever," a misnomer for "bottom fever," aka "MAKE ME YOUR BITCH SLUT-WHORE." -- Asshatitis = (Clueless) Male-specific mental condition. Causation unknown. Theories range from a combination of OCD with borderline personality disorder, along with porn contamination. Partial treatment directed toward porn saturation consists of detoxification, requiring going cold turkey from watching ANY and ALL porn in order to efficaciously manage this portion of complex disorder to avoid recurrence of "Dom-fever," aka "Dom-frenzy," aka "I AM A SELF-PROCLAIMED MASTER (even though I can't dominate my way out of a wet paper bag)." NOTE: Male S/switches fall somewhere between both ends of the spectrum. I hope this information has been helpful to you in some small way. [:)] That is just plane mean...there must be some other classfication of male that is not so narrow.

FieryOpal -> RE: Irony (6/10/2014 9:51:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx That is just plane mean...there must be some other classfication of male that is not so narrow. I'm not being a man-basher, and this only applies to a segment of the traffic we gals get on this site that OP is referring to, the ones commonly referred to as the "DO-MEs." It would never, of course, apply to you...right? [;)]

GoddessManko -> RE: Irony (6/10/2014 9:58:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FieryOpal quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx That is just plane mean...there must be some other classfication of male that is not so narrow. I'm not being a man-basher, and this only applies to a segment of the traffic we gals get on this site that OP is referring to, the ones commonly referred to as the "DO-MEs." It would never, of course, apply to you...right? [;)] TOUCHE! And I know thompsonx was not addressing me as far as discussing credit cards and charging for my responses unless he is suggesting that I follow suit and start doing just that. And is he seriously comparing chatting with a D to test driving a CAR?!?!?!? OK, not feeling objectified at all. So Kali, daunting misogyny appears in various forms, even from so called "subs". :)

FieryOpal -> RE: Irony (6/10/2014 10:10:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GoddessManko TOUCHE! And I know thompsonx was not addressing me as far as discussing credit cards and charging for my responses unless he is suggesting that I follow suit and start doing just that. And is he seriously comparing chatting with a D to test driving a CAR?!?!?!? OK, not feeling objectified at all. So Kali, daunting misogyny appears in various forms, even from so called "subs". :) No, he wouldn't have known that you are lifestyle, GM. Just like you didn't know he's a switch, not a sub, not that it matters insofar as NOT being a misogynist, I can assure you. (Btw, I really liked what you posted on that BDSM vs. Vanilla thread and will get over there to say so shortly.)

rokkman7456 -> RE: Irony (6/10/2014 11:07:28 AM)
To answer the OP's original questions. When I first started seeking someone out after my marriage disolved I was looking for specific kinks but did let the Domme do her thing as well. A year ago I met someone who originally came off as a disciplinarian. Well it turns out we are both kinky as hell. I agreed to enter this as a Domme/sub relationship. At the beginning I did not know what I was getting into but I NEVER would ask to have certain things done to me. She runs the show. We have discussed different things and well I have never metioned anything that she didn't want to do anyways and she has brought up things I thought of but did not ask. As far as femdom porn I started out with the nu-west Leda stuff a long time ago, of course today the stuff that is out there is over the top. We have done stuff that has left me in tears.... from laughing and well other times tears from punishment. She has asked me to come up with role play and she has her own. We had long discussions about likes and dislikes and a funny thing was we were both shy about it at first not anymore. I list sub because I try my best to be that way. I am however not that way outside unless around her. There are a couple of pro Dommes I would like to see, Cybill Troy comes to mind. If I were to see her I would probably have a list of things I would like her to do but would still let her do her own thing (not like I would have a choice lol) Being a sub has not been an easy thing for me. I do however enjoy it. I don't think most could handle it. Being 48 and told you cannot go out for a week or need to get up early or go to bed early because you screwed up are not what most guys are looking for. After this last year I do not want live any other way. My type A personality gets enough excersise in my career and business life.

thompsonx -> RE: Irony (6/10/2014 11:38:09 AM)
ORIGINAL: GoddessManko TOUCHE! And I know thompsonx was not addressing me as far as discussing credit cards and charging for my responses unless he is suggesting that I follow suit and start doing just that. It was just the opposite that I was sugesting. And is he seriously comparing chatting with a D to test driving a CAR?!?!?!? Absolutely...a premium automobile cost six figures and requires typically 10% of the purchase price in yearly maintainance. A long term meaningful relatioship with another human being should require at least as much research as would the purchase of said automobile. "If I decide to drive this car downhill on a twisty mountain road in a very aggressive manner what sort of fade might I expect from the braking system?" "If you have me restrained and we attempt dp with your g/f how would we co-ordinate the stroke as in both in at the same time or counter punch?...that being said how might I apply my safe word to slow the ... In both cases I am setting up a sceene in which I want to know how the brakes work. The first is a valid question to a car salesman and the second is a valid question to a sex worker. OK, not feeling objectified at all. [8\|]Do you wear make up? Do you wear clothes that flatter you? Do you maintain your body to be hwp? If you can objectify yourself why can't I appreciate that objectification? [8\|]When a woman tells me "wear this when we go out to dinner it makes you look hawt." Hell yes I will wear it. And if she has a pair of shoes that look like they belonged to clemintine I will point out how unhawt they are. I like to look as nice for her as she looks for me. So Kali, daunting misogyny appears in various forms, even from so called "subs". :) I think your use of the term "so called" is most appropriate.

thompsonx -> RE: Irony (6/10/2014 11:45:59 AM)
ORIGINAL: FieryOpal quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx That is just plane mean...there must be some other classfication of male that is not so narrow. I'm not being a man-basher, and this only applies to a segment of the traffic we gals get on this site that OP is referring to, the ones commonly referred to as the "DO-MEs." It would never, of course, apply to you...right? [;)] What???I have a list 69 pages long with all the do mes that I dream of.[;)]and a somewhat shorter list of those I would like to have do the "do mes"to me.

FriendlyMuppet -> RE: Irony (6/10/2014 12:35:09 PM)
To be honest, I think the reason you're getting mostly unworthy responses from men is that you probably listed yourself as a fin dom, which automatically causes a rash of do me subs to appear out of nowhere. To them, the whole idea of a fin dom is someone who caters to their sexual desires, and they figure that because there's a money element involved, then they're essentially "paying" for the privilege. The ironic thing is not that they claim to be submissive, but that they probably do this without any intention of actually giving you any money. Having said that, I can say that there are a number of male submissive types who are EXTREMELY sincere about being submissive. I'm most definitely not a "do me" sub in that I'll go out of my way to do things for a woman I'm serving, and I'll do it because it makes her happy and making her happy actually serves to make me happy. And having said even that, I must then add that a submissive like me is never going to contact a fin dom mainly because I have nothing to offer her that fits into my desire to serve a woman. Your type of transaction is exactly that, a transaction. It has little logic or place in anything I would be willing and interested in doing. While I'm sure there's a fin dom out there who would probably ALSO love to have a submissive who goes out of his way to do all of her housework, pick her up from wherever she needs a ride from, or to just be there to do whatever she needs, the chances of someone like me contacting someone like that are practically nil because I don't treat submission as transaction based but as needs and desire based. The point of saying all of this is to explain why I think you're getting a very skewed sample of the submissive base and then attributing that skewed sample to the general population because that's all that you're interacting with. It's like the male submissive who comes here and complains that all women are financial dommes because that's all he interacts with online. In order to find the quality people, you have to fulfill two necessities: First, you have to look for where quality people might actually be residing. And second, you have to be worthy of attracting a quality person when you finally come across one. I'm not saying you're not capable of that, but because much of this is a numbers game, when you put out your shingle with baggage attached to it (which a fin dom does just by the nature of so many others who make up that demographic), you're going to have a difficult time attracting people are have a completely different mindset than "what can this woman give me right here and now?"

ThePrincessKali -> RE: Irony (6/10/2014 4:14:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx ORIGINAL: GoddessManko TOUCHE! And I know thompsonx was not addressing me as far as discussing credit cards and charging for my responses unless he is suggesting that I follow suit and start doing just that. It was just the opposite that I was sugesting. And is he seriously comparing chatting with a D to test driving a CAR?!?!?!? Absolutely...a premium automobile cost six figures and requires typically 10% of the purchase price in yearly maintainance. A long term meaningful relatioship with another human being should require at least as much research as would the purchase of said automobile. "If I decide to drive this car downhill on a twisty mountain road in a very aggressive manner what sort of fade might I expect from the braking system?" "If you have me restrained and we attempt dp with your g/f how would we co-ordinate the stroke as in both in at the same time or counter punch?...that being said how might I apply my safe word to slow the ... In both cases I am setting up a sceene in which I want to know how the brakes work. The first is a valid question to a car salesman and the second is a valid question to a sex worker. OK, not feeling objectified at all. [8\|]Do you wear make up? Do you wear clothes that flatter you? Do you maintain your body to be hwp? If you can objectify yourself why can't I appreciate that objectification? [8\|]When a woman tells me "wear this when we go out to dinner it makes you look hawt." Hell yes I will wear it. And if she has a pair of shoes that look like they belonged to clemintine I will point out how unhawt they are. I like to look as nice for her as she looks for me. So Kali, daunting misogyny appears in various forms, even from so called "subs". :) I think your use of the term "so called" is most appropriate. I'm interested to know why you think dressing in nice clothes, wearing makeup, etc means that we are objectifying ourselves? So a female attorney who wears a blazer and skirt and mascara to court would be considered "objectifying herself" in your opinion? Or a business woman who wears pumps to work? I think that's a big leap. There is a difference being having positive body image and being objectified....I honestly don't even see the correlation at all.

thompsonx -> RE: Irony (6/11/2014 6:54:38 AM)
I'm interested to know why you think dressing in nice clothes, wearing makeup, etc means that we are objectifying ourselves? It is not gender specific. Men objectify themselves just as clearly. So a female attorney who wears a blazer and skirt and mascara to court would be considered "objectifying herself" in your opinion? Just like the male attorney who wears an armani suit,sports a churchill on the inside coat pocket and a rolex on his wrist. Or a business woman who wears pumps to work? Or a guy wearing bruno magli shoes to work? I think that's a big leap. There is a difference being having positive body image and being objectified.... If objectification can be defined as focusing on those aspects of a person not related to their intellect then when doesn't projecting a positive body image become objectification? I honestly don't even see the correlation at all. I think the problem arises when we focus on the object at the expense of the subect.

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