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RE: Iraq........ Mission unaccomplished. - 6/12/2014 4:27:23 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Anyone remember Georges banner, or Blair claiming (just recently) that it (the invasion) was the right thing to do.

Due to poor handling by Bush and his cronies Iraq is again in turmoil, the Shia government done as predicted by some of us at the time and marginalised the Sunnis. Promises made to get the Sunni community onside during the 2007 battles with AQ militants were reneged on. Now as a result crisis is hardly a strong enough word to describe current events. Scenes on the nes show Islamic insurgents driving US arny vehicles abandoned by the Iraqi army, trained and armed by the allies but mainly by the US. Lets hope the US and UK dont get dragged back in, I wouldnt be shocked if we did though.


Poor handling by Bush. Bush hasn't been president for years! I think what you mean is, see what happens when you turn things over to a Democrat...?


More bullshit from you Sanity, as ever you ignore the facts. What I mean is what I posted and you copied. What you mean is you are pissed because someone pointed it out.

And if you think I am making this a left vs right issue, it only highlights your ignorance of world politics, both then and now. < Ask if you need me to elaborate further.

(in reply to Sanity)
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RE: Iraq........ Mission unaccomplished. - 6/12/2014 4:29:18 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Fr
Come on guys, we all know this song and dance by now. It's been playing since Jan 09.

No matter how fucked up Obama's foreign policy is, W gets ghe blame.

Didn't President Obama take a shit load of credit for ending the war in Iraq?

Ya can't have it both ways peeps.



Learn some history, just not from Sanity. Obama brought your troops home, no more and no less.

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RE: Iraq........ Mission unaccomplished. - 6/12/2014 4:30:42 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Iraq spiraled into chaos nearly immediately after the invasion, and has not recovered. It was a huge destabilizing move by W.



Finally, someone who know wtf he is talking about.

Well most of the time anyhow......

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RE: Iraq........ Mission unaccomplished. - 6/12/2014 4:43:05 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

It is looking like a $1 Trillion Dollar NIGHTMARE. It is just mind-boggling. It is just beyond upsetting.

USA TODAY's headling was: IRAQ inching toward a Civil War.



It isnt even the money that is upsetting...... It is the wasteless loss of life in general, Iraqi, US UK etc etc.


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RE: Iraq........ Mission unaccomplished. - 6/12/2014 5:10:53 PM   
subrob1967


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Fr
Come on guys, we all know this song and dance by now. It's been playing since Jan 09.

No matter how fucked up Obama's foreign policy is, W gets ghe blame.

Didn't President Obama take a shit load of credit for ending the war in Iraq?

Ya can't have it both ways peeps.



Learn some history, just not from Sanity. Obama brought your troops home, no more and no less.


No, Obama brought the troops home three weeks sooner than Bush would have, then threw a big party at the White House and took the credit for ending the "war".

I think you need to go see your optometrist and have your eyes checked.

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RE: Iraq........ Mission unaccomplished. - 6/12/2014 5:14:57 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Three weeks sooner you say....... Well no wonder things are so fucked up huh.

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Iraq........ Mission unaccomplished. - 6/12/2014 5:19:09 PM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Fr
Come on guys, we all know this song and dance by now. It's been playing since Jan 09.

No matter how fucked up Obama's foreign policy is, W gets ghe blame.

Didn't President Obama take a shit load of credit for ending the war in Iraq?

Ya can't have it both ways peeps.



Learn some history, just not from Sanity. Obama brought your troops home, no more and no less.


No, Obama brought the troops home three weeks sooner than Bush would have, then threw a big party at the White House and took the credit for ending the "war".

I think you need to go see your optometrist and have your eyes checked.


You want to learn something from history?

How about, whenever Barack takes credit for something, you know it's gonna turn out bad

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Iraq........ Mission unaccomplished. - 6/12/2014 5:22:24 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		How about staying on topic re Bush and his fuck up. That would be novel, but no, lets just blame President Obama for anything we can, even if it is bollocks.

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RE: Iraq........ Mission unaccomplished. - 6/12/2014 5:36:02 PM   
Sanity


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

How about staying on topic re Bush and his fuck up. That would be novel, but no, lets just blame President Obama for anything we can, even if it is bollocks.


Bush didn't lose Iraq to al-Qaeda or turn his back on our ambassador to al-Qaeda forces in Benghazi

Barack did, after crowing about how al-Qaeda has been decimated

Maybe he can blame losing Iraq on a video too

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Iraq........ Mission unaccomplished. - 6/12/2014 5:42:21 PM   
Tkman117


Posts: 1353
Joined: 5/21/2012
Status: offline 		No but he did waste 1 trillion on a war which resulted in probably just as much if not more misery than if the US hadn't intervened in the way it did.

Also why do you continue to parrot such idiotic faux scandals and fake information? I know faux news can be manipulative, but this is just sad.

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Iraq........ Mission unaccomplished. - 6/12/2014 5:49:50 PM   
Marc2b


Posts: 6660
Joined: 8/7/2006
Status: offline 		Looking at this from a strictly Machiavellian/realpolitik angle:

So, a lot of the really violent Islamic fanatics are gathered together in one area of Syria/Iraq?

Will we take advantage of the situation and take out a bunch at once?

Personally I'd prefer if we'd just wait this one out, see who emerges victorious, and then engage them as they make necessary.

We might give some thoughts to helping the Kurds get their own country 'though that will, admittedly, screw up relations with Turkey.



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(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Iraq........ Mission unaccomplished. - 6/12/2014 5:55:30 PM   
GoddessManko


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From: Dante's Inferno
Status: offline 		It's been such a while since I indulged in political banter of this sort that I can't for the life of me remember the 18 political standards for Iraq set by the GAO which during the entire Bush presidency he only met 5. Hmm...what were they again? :)

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RE: Iraq........ Mission unaccomplished. - 6/12/2014 5:58:28 PM   
Sanity


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Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

Looking at this from a strictly Machiavellian/realpolitik angle:

So, a lot of the really violent Islamic fanatics are gathered together in one area of Syria/Iraq?

Will we take advantage of the situation and take out a bunch at once?

Personally I'd prefer if we'd just wait this one out, see who emerges victorious, and then engage them as they make necessary.

We might give some thoughts to helping the Kurds get their own country 'though that will, admittedly, screw up relations with Turkey.



Kinda looks like Iran might take them on

That would be something

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RE: Iraq........ Mission unaccomplished. - 6/12/2014 8:41:20 PM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

How about staying on topic re Bush and his fuck up. That would be novel, but no, lets just blame President Obama for anything we can, even if it is bollocks.



You've blamed Bush plenty for his fuck-up. This one is Obama's. And it may yet get a whole hell of a lot worse than it is.




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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Iraq........ Mission unaccomplished. - 6/12/2014 8:51:03 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		No, no, no, no - Obama only gets CREDIT when things go right! Otherwise he is never responsible... He is probably the least responsible president we've ever had, in fact. Its always some low-level lackeys fault in the IRS or in the State Department or at the VA or in the ATF who cannot POSSIBLY make the Congressional hearings who is at fault...

Or George Bush did it

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Iraq........ Mission unaccomplished. - 6/13/2014 2:26:43 AM   
SadistDave


Posts: 801
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		As Breitbart reported on the 12th, back in 2010 Vice President Joe "Stand up Chuck, and take a bow" Biden was on Larry King claiming that Iraq was going to be one of Obummers's great achievements. You don't have to believe Breitbart. There's video, so you can take Bidens word for it.

quote:

"[It] could be one of the great achievements of this administration," he said. "You're going to see 90,000 American troops come marching home by the end of the summer. You're going to see a stable government in Iraq that is actually moving toward a representative government."

"I know every one of the major players in all the segments of that society," he added. "It's impressed me. I've been impressed how they have been deciding to use the political process rather than guns to settle their differences."


What's happening now in Iraq is an achievement of the Oblamer administration. This administration took credit for it for it 4 years ago. Bush has been quietly retired painting pictures and bicycling with the troops. He's not been influencing foreign policy in any way since his retirement. That makes this fiasco the responsibility of this administration.

Clearly, what Oblamer needs to do is send Susan Rice out to all the weekend talk shows to claim that what's happening in Iraq is due to an offensive internet video, the Republicans causing gridlock in Congress, or maybe the Chinese flooding the market with inexpensive solar panels.

-SD-

< Message edited by SadistDave -- 6/13/2014 2:27:19 AM >

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To whom it may concern: Just because someone is in a position of authority they do not get to make up their own facts. In spite of what some people here (who shall remain nameless) want to claim, someone over the age of 18 is NOT a fucking minor!

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Iraq........ Mission unaccomplished. - 6/13/2014 2:40:43 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		When you guys stop blaming Bush or Obama for ISIS's successes in Iraq and get round to asking why this bloodthirsty bunch of thugs have achieved their success, the first place to look is not in the White House, but at your 'allies' in the region.

Saudi Arabia and Qatar, both autocratic monarchies with appalling human rights records, as well as US allies, have been foremost in funding and arming ISIS and directing its activities in Syria where it is on the rebel side, ie. the same side as the US. This cannot have happened without US knowledge. This support has been a decisive factor is ISIS's growth and successes.

Whoever the President is pretty irrelevant as US policy in the region is as close to bi partisan as it gets. From a US perspective the policy is the problem. Considering that the primary goal of US policy in the region is slavishly promoting Israel, a State loathed by just about every other country in the region, and many beyond, this latest failure of US policy can hardly be a surprise to anyone with more than a single digit IQ.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 6/13/2014 2:45:00 AM >

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RE: Iraq........ Mission unaccomplished. - 6/13/2014 2:55:26 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

How about staying on topic re Bush and his fuck up. That would be novel, but no, lets just blame President Obama for anything we can, even if it is bollocks.



You've blamed Bush plenty for his fuck-up. This one is Obama's. And it may yet get a whole hell of a lot worse than it is.






How so ?..... The current schism was caused by the invasion, that great idea from Bush and Blair. Anyone doubting this needs to learn the timeline re ISIS.

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Iraq........ Mission unaccomplished. - 6/13/2014 2:59:41 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Good points Tweakable but that doesnt alter the fact that the 2003 invasion only made things worse. As I have often said, Saudi and the Gulf States have hardly got clean hands in the whole sorry saga.

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Iraq........ Mission unaccomplished. - 6/13/2014 3:04:30 AM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Good points Tweakable but that doesnt alter the fact that the 2003 invasion only made things worse
.
Yes. That was a standout disaster in a series of disasters.

Perhaps the saddest aspect is that this disaster didn't lead to a fundamental reassessment of US policy towards the region. Had that option been exercised who knows what subsequent disasters could have been averted?



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