quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
Our electric trains carry cargo AND passengers.
Sometimes if I get stuck on the Grain crossing, the coal and tanks from the refinery runs on for miles and miles of rolling stock.
Point being, the US is waay behind other 1st world countries on rail electrification.

I believe it. A lot of the US infrastructure has been neglected in past decades, and railroads seem to be no exception. The complaint around here is that there just isn't enough capacity to handle the amount of traffic, so they're talking about building a new railroad yard between Tucson and Phoenix and doubling the track capacity. Mainly for cargo rail.
Passenger rail is useless. I tried taking Amtrak one time, but there's no real value to it. They only come by a couple times a week, they've got a screwy schedule, late at night with the station in a raunchy area of town. It's just not worth the hassle.

quote:

1. Light rail can spend lots of tax dollars.
Rail construction is extremely costly, so it is a great way for politicians to reward favoured contractors. Siemens, the company that is suing Ottawa over the cancelled north-south light-rail line, is obviously more interested in getting lucrative contracts than in improving your transportation network. If you are a taxpayer, hold onto your wallet: between cost overruns, high maintenance costs, and endless proposals for new rail lines, your costs will never end.

2. Light rail cannot get a lot of people out of their cars.
Studies show that transit riders care more about frequencies and speeds than about whether the vehicle they ride has rubber tires or steel wheels. Light-rail lines may boost ridership because transit agencies run the trains more frequently and (because they stop fewer times per kilometre) faster than buses. But, as the U.S. General Accountability Office has shown, transit agencies can run bus services as fast and as frequent as any light-rail line at a fraction of the cost of light rail.

quote:

There was a dense system of inter-city railways in the United States in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, but after the decline of passenger railroad in North America in the 1960s, the inter-city lines decreased greatly. Today the system is far less dense and is operated by the government-owned Amtrak company, with the exception of Alaska, which uses the Alaska Railroad. The most heavily used routes with the greatest rider-ship and schedule frequencies are in the Northeastern United States, on Amtrak's Northeast Corridor. About one in every three users of mass transit in the United States and two-thirds of the nation's rail riders live in New York City. The two busiest passenger rail stations in the United States are Penn Station and Grand Central Terminal, both in New York City. Passenger rail outside the Northeast, Northwest, California and Chicago is infrequent and rarely used relative to networks in Europe and Japan.

Two new corridors have been identified for private development; these are the Eastern Flyer route in Oklahoma and the All Aboard Florida route between Miami and Orlando. The former is expected to begin operations in the fall of 2014;[3] the latter is expected to begin operations in 2015 or possibly 2016.[4]

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• Limited Government
  
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
What's going to happen in the US, is that there is going to be a functioning light rail system built because Europe has one and we can't be left behind in having a prolific system, no matter how much it will cost to build, to maintain, or to ride, but it'll be nearly finished right as the telecommuting age comes to pass, and the relative number of commuters drops, making light rail that much less a good idea.

quote:

There was a dense system of inter-city railways in the United States in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, but after the decline of passenger railroad in North America in the 1960s, the inter-city lines decreased greatly. Today the system is far less dense and is operated by the government-owned Amtrak company, with the exception of Alaska, which uses the Alaska Railroad. The most heavily used routes with the greatest rider-ship and schedule frequencies are in the Northeastern United States, on Amtrak's Northeast Corridor. About one in every three users of mass transit in the United States and two-thirds of the nation's rail riders live in New York City. The two busiest passenger rail stations in the United States are Penn Station and Grand Central Terminal, both in New York City. Passenger rail outside the Northeast, Northwest, California and Chicago is infrequent and rarely used relative to networks in Europe and Japan.

Two new corridors have been identified for private development; these are the Eastern Flyer route in Oklahoma and the All Aboard Florida route between Miami and Orlando. The former is expected to begin operations in the fall of 2014;[3] the latter is expected to begin operations in 2015 or possibly 2016.[4]

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
What's going to happen in the US, is that there is going to be a functioning light rail system built because Europe has one and we can't be left behind in having a prolific system, no matter how much it will cost to build, to maintain, or to ride, but it'll be nearly finished right as the telecommuting age comes to pass, and the relative number of commuters drops, making light rail that much less a good idea.

They're building and currently testing a light rail system here in Tucson, although it's been subject of a lot of criticism, along with cost overruns, delays, concerns about safety, traffic, etc. It only covers the downtown and university area, but this city is spread out with an overall low population density. It's the same for a lot of western cities. Los Angeles is a huge megalopolis which is spread out all over the place. They have the rail, but it really doesn't cover a whole lot of territory and has a limited schedule.

quote:

quote:

ETA: Forgot a link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercity_rail#United_States

quote:

There was a dense system of inter-city railways in the United States in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, but after the decline of passenger railroad in North America in the 1960s, the inter-city lines decreased greatly. Today the system is far less dense and is operated by the government-owned Amtrak company, with the exception of Alaska, which uses the Alaska Railroad. The most heavily used routes with the greatest rider-ship and schedule frequencies are in the Northeastern United States, on Amtrak's Northeast Corridor. About one in every three users of mass transit in the United States and two-thirds of the nation's rail riders live in New York City. The two busiest passenger rail stations in the United States are Penn Station and Grand Central Terminal, both in New York City. Passenger rail outside the Northeast, Northwest, California and Chicago is infrequent and rarely used relative to networks in Europe and Japan.
Two new corridors have been identified for private development; these are the Eastern Flyer route in Oklahoma and the All Aboard Florida route between Miami and Orlando. The former is expected to begin operations in the fall of 2014;[3] the latter is expected to begin operations in 2015 or possibly 2016.[4]

1/3 of all US users of mass transit, and 2/3 of all US rail riders live in NYC. The listings of light rail, commuter rail, subways, etc. that I linked above all show that these things are generally located in high population areas.

Yes, the east coast and the states between Chicago and NYC are much more densely populated than the west coast. Also, the western cities are less densely packed, as they were mostly built after the invention of the automobile and were planned with that consideration. It's just more convenient to have a car. In NYC, a car is actually more of an inconvenience and an encumbrance, due to the expense and hassle of finding a place to park. It's like that in a lot of older cities where residences were constructed without parking places in mind.

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
Our electric trains carry cargo AND passengers.
Sometimes if I get stuck on the Grain crossing, the coal and tanks from the refinery runs on for miles and miles of rolling stock.
Point being, the US is waay behind other 1st world countries on rail electrification.

I believe it. A lot of the US infrastructure has been neglected in past decades, and railroads seem to be no exception. The complaint around here is that there just isn't enough capacity to handle the amount of traffic, so they're talking about building a new railroad yard between Tucson and Phoenix and doubling the track capacity. Mainly for cargo rail.
Passenger rail is useless. I tried taking Amtrak one time, but there's no real value to it. They only come by a couple times a week, they've got a screwy schedule, late at night with the station in a raunchy area of town. It's just not worth the hassle.

Had a friend who worked for several years in Germany. He and his wife were thrilled with the rail system there. The biggest hurdle to rail in the US, is that our population isn't quite as concentrated in the cities, and we are spread out across a very large area. We like the freedom to drive, and that spills over into our commuting, too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_rapid_transit_systems_by_ridership
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_light_rail_systems_by_ridership
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_commuter_rail_systems_by_ridership

http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/light-rail-doesnt-work

An interesting rant. Some points resonate more than others:

quote:

1. Light rail can spend lots of tax dollars.
Rail construction is extremely costly, so it is a great way for politicians to reward favoured contractors. Siemens, the company that is suing Ottawa over the cancelled north-south light-rail line, is obviously more interested in getting lucrative contracts than in improving your transportation network. If you are a taxpayer, hold onto your wallet: between cost overruns, high maintenance costs, and endless proposals for new rail lines, your costs will never end.

2. Light rail cannot get a lot of people out of their cars.
Studies show that transit riders care more about frequencies and speeds than about whether the vehicle they ride has rubber tires or steel wheels. Light-rail lines may boost ridership because transit agencies run the trains more frequently and (because they stop fewer times per kilometre) faster than buses. But, as the U.S. General Accountability Office has shown, transit agencies can run bus services as fast and as frequent as any light-rail line at a fraction of the cost of light rail.

What's going to happen in the US, is that there is going to be a functioning light rail system built because Europe has one and we can't be left behind in having a prolific system, no matter how much it will cost to build, to maintain, or to ride, but it'll be nearly finished right as the telecommuting age comes to pass, and the relative number of commuters drops, making light rail that much less a good idea.

ETA: Forgot a link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercity_rail#United_States

quote:

There was a dense system of inter-city railways in the United States in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, but after the decline of passenger railroad in North America in the 1960s, the inter-city lines decreased greatly. Today the system is far less dense and is operated by the government-owned Amtrak company, with the exception of Alaska, which uses the Alaska Railroad. The most heavily used routes with the greatest rider-ship and schedule frequencies are in the Northeastern United States, on Amtrak's Northeast Corridor. About one in every three users of mass transit in the United States and two-thirds of the nation's rail riders live in New York City. The two busiest passenger rail stations in the United States are Penn Station and Grand Central Terminal, both in New York City. Passenger rail outside the Northeast, Northwest, California and Chicago is infrequent and rarely used relative to networks in Europe and Japan.

Two new corridors have been identified for private development; these are the Eastern Flyer route in Oklahoma and the All Aboard Florida route between Miami and Orlando. The former is expected to begin operations in the fall of 2014;[3] the latter is expected to begin operations in 2015 or possibly 2016.[4]

1/3 of all US users of mass transit, and 2/3 of all US rail riders live in NYC. The listings of light rail, commuter rail, subways, etc. that I linked above all show that these things are generally located in high population areas.

Population density of Europe


Population density of the USA (note the color scale is different)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
I see people up and down the street with 2 or 3 or 4 cars in their driveway.. So if people are gonna bitch about the cost, the damage to the environment, pollution, etc then don't use it, or at the very least reduce as much as possible cuz if you don't, then you are the problem..

Are you jealous, or whats the issue. They're only driving one at a time, no harm no foul. But you are right about on thing, the bitchy whiners pounding away on their plastic keyboards about the evils of oil

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
I see people up and down the street with 2 or 3 or 4 cars in their driveway.. So if people are gonna bitch about the cost, the damage to the environment, pollution, etc then don't use it, or at the very least reduce as much as possible cuz if you don't, then you are the problem..

Are you jealous, or whats the issue. They're only driving one at a time, no harm no foul. But you are right about on thing, the bitchy whiners pounding away on their plastic keyboards about the evils of oil

they are driving one at a time, frequently at the same time, going the same direction, instead of using rideshare or park & ride even or renting the vehicle out to someone else when they don't use it (like Relay Rides).. I am not jealous at all (they are welcome to making monthly payments on each, I refuse to do that).. I see it both as unnecessarily wasteful as well as giving money to prop up the auto industry & banking industry.. if they want to pay their money to the 1% for something that depreciates 30% after you drive it off the lot then that is their problem, imo..

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
We like the freedom to drive, and that spills over into our commuting, too.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
We like the freedom to drive, and that spills over into our commuting, too.

Apparently, ya'll spend 6 months of your life behind the wheel.. do you really like it that much?

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
I see people up and down the street with 2 or 3 or 4 cars in their driveway.. So if people are gonna bitch about the cost, the damage to the environment, pollution, etc then don't use it, or at the very least reduce as much as possible cuz if you don't, then you are the problem..

Are you jealous, or whats the issue. They're only driving one at a time, no harm no foul. But you are right about on thing, the bitchy whiners pounding away on their plastic keyboards about the evils of oil

they are driving one at a time, frequently at the same time, going the same direction, instead of using rideshare or park & ride even or renting the vehicle out to someone else when they don't use it (like Relay Rides).. I am not jealous at all (they are welcome to making monthly payments on each, I refuse to do that).. I see it both as unnecessarily wasteful as well as giving money to prop up the auto industry & banking industry.. if they want to pay their money to the 1% for something that depreciates 30% after you drive it off the lot then that is their problem, imo..

You say you don't care, but why even bring it up? Why does it bother you? What difference does it make in your life?

Just like you said, if they want to spend their money that way, that's their choice.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
I see people up and down the street with 2 or 3 or 4 cars in their driveway.. So if people are gonna bitch about the cost, the damage to the environment, pollution, etc then don't use it, or at the very least reduce as much as possible cuz if you don't, then you are the problem..

Are you jealous, or whats the issue. They're only driving one at a time, no harm no foul. But you are right about on thing, the bitchy whiners pounding away on their plastic keyboards about the evils of oil

they are driving one at a time, frequently at the same time, going the same direction, instead of using rideshare or park & ride even or renting the vehicle out to someone else when they don't use it (like Relay Rides).. I am not jealous at all (they are welcome to making monthly payments on each, I refuse to do that).. I see it both as unnecessarily wasteful as well as giving money to prop up the auto industry & banking industry.. if they want to pay their money to the 1% for something that depreciates 30% after you drive it off the lot then that is their problem, imo..

You say you don't care, but why even bring it up? Why does it bother you? What difference does it make in your life?
Just like you said, if they want to spend their money that way, that's their choice.

cuz it was in reference to my post about if you bitch about the cost of gas/oil, the pollution the environmental consequences then don't use the f'n stuff or at least reduce it as much as possible.. and cuz I think people with their driveway full of vehicles are idjots..

• A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  
• Personal Responsibility
  
• Help for the truly needy
  
• Limited Government
  
• Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

While it was probably a typo, "idjots" is how I sometimes say it, just because. lol

While they can bitch about the cost of gas/oil, having multiple vehicles doesn't necessarily mean an increase in use of gas/oil. The multiple car thing could also be out of necessity, where there are multiple drivers and no economical way for them to reduce the number of cars needed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

We have an 8 passenger vehicle because we sometimes have 8 passengers, my submissive usually drives that. I have my luxury sports car for general use and for fun, a truck for hauling stuff and for towing trailers, then there are two other drivers on the compound who go their own ways during the day. Plus my son is storing a car here that he is not sure what to do with...

But what business is it of some Yahoo driving by to judge

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

you were the one that started the thread bitching about the cost of gas.. or was it that you just wanted to bitch/blame something else on Obama???

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Metro systems might make more sense in densely populated areas, but that's not really what people are calling for. The European system connects countries and cities within countries. That might work in certain situations, but it's not likely to work for most areas. There just isn't enough ridership demand.

quote:


And, in NYC, they have quite a system, as they do in Chicago, etc. Hell, they have a light rail system at Disney! Those make sense. Connecting the East Coast with the West Coast by commuter train might not make a whole lot of sense.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Actually Bush did that, and for the reason that more oil exploration in deeper/further places is more expensive, so it's not feasible unless gas (oil) prices are higher.

Obama is Bush Lite.

Carter had us on a good alternative energy path, but Reagan killed every one of those immediately upon taking office.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
We like the freedom to drive, and that spills over into our commuting, too.

Apparently, ya'll spend 6 months of your life behind the wheel.. do you really like it that much?

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
I see people up and down the street with 2 or 3 or 4 cars in their driveway.. So if people are gonna bitch about the cost, the damage to the environment, pollution, etc then don't use it, or at the very least reduce as much as possible cuz if you don't, then you are the problem..

Are you jealous, or whats the issue. They're only driving one at a time, no harm no foul. But you are right about on thing, the bitchy whiners pounding away on their plastic keyboards about the evils of oil

they are driving one at a time, frequently at the same time, going the same direction, instead of using rideshare or park & ride even or renting the vehicle out to someone else when they don't use it (like Relay Rides).. I am not jealous at all (they are welcome to making monthly payments on each, I refuse to do that).. I see it both as unnecessarily wasteful as well as giving money to prop up the auto industry & banking industry.. if they want to pay their money to the 1% for something that depreciates 30% after you drive it off the lot then that is their problem, imo..

You say you don't care, but why even bring it up? Why does it bother you? What difference does it make in your life?

Just like you said, if they want to spend their money that way, that's their choice.

cuz it was in reference to my post about if you bitch about the cost of gas/oil, the pollution the environmental consequences then don't use the f'n stuff or at least reduce it as much as possible.. and cuz I think people with their driveway full of vehicles are idjots..

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
We like the freedom to drive, and that spills over into our commuting, too.

Apparently, ya'll spend 6 months of your life behind the wheel.. do you really like it that much?

Are you sure that was taken in the states. I did a google search and I keep coming up with China.