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RE: Canada OKs oil pipeline to the Pacific Coast... - 6/21/2014 8:51:20 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS

Denigrating CNG for lack of pipeline infrastructure is another lie.


not lack of pipeline infrastructure but its compressed, and to use it you need filling stations which there are very few & far between.. and unless the CNG manufacturers have improved their technology, that stuff doesn't work well in converted vehicles.. thats the problem with most manufacturers, they throw shite into the market without working the bugs out, then those suckers that bought cuz of the hype get ticked off and word spreads about the problems.. you couldn't pay me to have a CNG vehicle.. No one wanted it 20 years ago and no one wants it now either.. just sayin'

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Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Canada OKs oil pipeline to the Pacific Coast... - 6/21/2014 9:12:45 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

We peaked just over 10M barrels per day crude oil production, Oct/Nov 1970. At least according to the EIA in my link.


I don't understand why everyone keeps focusing on production numbers.. that is only one part of the equation.. the other part is consumption.. and the US is the worlds largest oil consumer.. the US sucks up 18.5 million barrels/day..

http://www.eia.gov/countries/index.cfm?view=consumption

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Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Canada OKs oil pipeline to the Pacific Coast... - 6/22/2014 6:13:53 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
We peaked just over 10M barrels per day crude oil production, Oct/Nov 1970. At least according to the EIA in my link.

I don't understand why everyone keeps focusing on production numbers.. that is only one part of the equation.. the other part is consumption.. and the US is the worlds largest oil consumer.. the US sucks up 18.5 million barrels/day..
http://www.eia.gov/countries/index.cfm?view=consumption



Perhaps because this is about a pipeline to the Pacific, not to the US? Perhaps because the idea that increasing US production could help free us from Middle East oil?

There is no definition of "consumption" on that page. The 18.5m bpd is both consumption and direct burning of oil. If oil consumption includes refining, then, I'm neither surprised, nor dismayed at it.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Canada OKs oil pipeline to the Pacific Coast... - 6/22/2014 8:38:08 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS

Denigrating CNG for lack of pipeline infrastructure is another lie.


not lack of pipeline infrastructure but its compressed, and to use it you need filling stations which there are very few & far between.. and unless the CNG manufacturers have improved their technology, that stuff doesn't work well in converted vehicles.. thats the problem with most manufacturers, they throw shite into the market without working the bugs out, then those suckers that bought cuz of the hype get ticked off and word spreads about the problems.. you couldn't pay me to have a CNG vehicle.. No one wanted it 20 years ago and no one wants it now either.. just sayin'

NG for motor vehicle use is progressing very nicely across the country. It is bottled, conversion of existing trucks was $50,000 now under $9,000. There are complete fleets being created and changed over...Calif. is one state and has many doz. if not 100's of stations for CNG.

It is my understanding that Walmart is doing an analysis for their fleet etc.

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Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Canada OKs oil pipeline to the Pacific Coast... - 6/22/2014 11:28:18 AM   
HunterS


Posts: 553
Joined: 10/21/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS

Denigrating CNG for lack of pipeline infrastructure is another lie.


not lack of pipeline infrastructure but its compressed, and to use it you need filling stations which there are very few & far between.. and unless the CNG manufacturers have improved their technology, that stuff doesn't work well in converted vehicles.. thats the problem with most manufacturers, they throw shite into the market without working the bugs out, then those suckers that bought cuz of the hype get ticked off and word spreads about the problems.. you couldn't pay me to have a CNG vehicle.. No one wanted it 20 years ago and no one wants it now either.. just sayin'


My remarks were re: pipe lines to service power generating plants and not cars.
CNG and propane are similar products. If used in cars properly converted, both fuel economy and power go up while polutants go down.
To denigrate a fuel because someone uses it improperly is hardly productive.

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Canada OKs oil pipeline to the Pacific Coast... - 6/22/2014 1:03:53 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS

Denigrating CNG for lack of pipeline infrastructure is another lie.


not lack of pipeline infrastructure but its compressed, and to use it you need filling stations which there are very few & far between.. and unless the CNG manufacturers have improved their technology, that stuff doesn't work well in converted vehicles.. thats the problem with most manufacturers, they throw shite into the market without working the bugs out, then those suckers that bought cuz of the hype get ticked off and word spreads about the problems.. you couldn't pay me to have a CNG vehicle.. No one wanted it 20 years ago and no one wants it now either.. just sayin'


My remarks were re: pipe lines to service power generating plants and not cars.
CNG and propane are similar products. If used in cars properly converted, both fuel economy and power go up while polutants go down.
To denigrate a fuel because someone uses it improperly is hardly productive.


The CNG for vehicles was used properly, just the manufacturers of the equipment put out produce that didn't work very well.. I wouldn't touch propane in a vehicle either.. I don't like gas of any sort, no way would I put a gas line into any house I own either..

< Message edited by tj444 -- 6/22/2014 1:04:23 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Canada OKs oil pipeline to the Pacific Coast... - 6/22/2014 1:29:46 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

NG for motor vehicle use is progressing very nicely across the country. It is bottled, conversion of existing trucks was $50,000 now under $9,000. There are complete fleets being created and changed over...Calif. is one state and has many doz. if not 100's of stations for CNG.

It is my understanding that Walmart is doing an analysis for their fleet etc.

talk to the hand, dude.. talk to the hand..

My ex used to try to sell conversions years ago, so I have a very bad taste in my mouth about CNG and it won't ever go away.. I seriously doubt the manufacturers have changed or that there aren't problems with the conversions, even today.. I think it is much more ideal to have an electric & solar vehicle conversion or to just use an electric bike/scooter or even a gas powered scooter (some can get as much as 132mpg)..

The problem wont ever go away as American cities are sprawl & transit sucks in all of them (except for NY city)..

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

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Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Canada OKs oil pipeline to the Pacific Coast... - 6/22/2014 7:11:54 PM   
Sanity


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Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
I don't understand why everyone keeps focusing on production numbers.. that is only one part of the equation.. the other part is consumption.. and the US is the worlds largest oil consumer.. the US sucks up 18.5 million barrels/day..

http://www.eia.gov/countries/index.cfm?view=consumption


Contrary to the propaganda we are probably around 20th in per capita oil consumption

Even at that, why is it bad or how is it bad that people in the United States use oil to pave roads, run farm equipment, travel our vast nation, grow, manufacture and transport all kinds of goods, and so on. We do a world of good with oil...

< Message edited by Sanity -- 6/22/2014 7:38:49 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Canada OKs oil pipeline to the Pacific Coast... - 6/22/2014 8:43:05 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie
Huh?

"Also, and at least partially due to higher fuel prices, food prices are also skyrocketing:"

Natural gas, which is a major component of fertilizer, which has been falling for 5 years, incrementally, has lowered the cost of producing food since....easily 2010.

What has Chinese fuel burns go to do with American food costs?

Natural gas has fallen every year (except the last 12 months) for 5 years and is still below the world price by 65%.

Huh?




You're right that natural gas, despite Obama's best efforts to regulate the fracking that has produced it out of existence, has in many ways saved our bacon (so to speak)

Again, despite Obama

Yet, farm tractors don't run on natural gas, tractor trailers and locomotives don't run on natural gas. There are a lot of things we get from oil that make our lives better, help bring the things we need to us and to our tables, which Democrats boisterously oppose that



Resins, fertilizers, plastic and a thousand other products are manufactured directly out of LNG.

Hence why companies that make epoxies, resins for plastics, paints, etc., are now building manufacturing plants here in the U.S. in droves.

I'm no fan of Obama, but be assured, these results are not "in spite of" Obama, they are because he has refused to allow exporting of this product which we are literally burning at the site because we have no facilities capable of storing what cars aren't burning.

Boone Pickens has a brilliant plan to get autos and trucks to run on this fuel but because of the $5,000.00 - $30,000.00 cost to change over the engines, it's having a bit of an uphill grind.

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Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Canada OKs oil pipeline to the Pacific Coast... - 6/22/2014 8:45:25 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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Joined: 8/9/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
The President has little ability to impact the price of gasoline. There's plenty of shit to pile on Obama, but this isn't one of those turds.

Bullshit
Placing oil fields off limits through executive order, putting off the pipeline decision forever, directing his EPA goons and his IRS goons etc to crack down on every aspect of the energy industry, etc, are but a few of the ways Obama has driven fuel prices (and food prices, and electricity prices etc) to a six year high


What does our petroleum production look like? Looks like we haven't seen this level of production since the early 1990's.

I think a more damaging impact is the devaluing of the dollar, which has been going on since the Reagan Administration, at least.


Yep.

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Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Canada OKs oil pipeline to the Pacific Coast... - 6/22/2014 8:52:16 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

Are you really that dense? Trains all over the world use electricity, not oil/gas to run.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_locomotive

And I never said anything about shale, where the hell did you get that BS?


Electric trains are powered by Diesel.

(They're hybrids....be aware, if they had batteries that could carry 293 other wheeled devices behind them full of ore or Christmas presents for longer than 11 minutes per charge....they'd have a Prius that could go cross country with one charge).

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Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Canada OKs oil pipeline to the Pacific Coast... - 6/22/2014 8:56:46 PM   
BamaD


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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

Are you really that dense? Trains all over the world use electricity, not oil/gas to run.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_locomotive

And I never said anything about shale, where the hell did you get that BS?


Electric trains are powered by Diesel.

(They're hybrids....be aware, if they had batteries that could carry 293 other wheeled devices behind them full of ore or Christmas presents for longer than 11 minutes per charge....they'd have a Prius that could go cross country with one charge).

Diesel is a petroleum product, and much electricity is generated with fossil fuels.

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Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Canada OKs oil pipeline to the Pacific Coast... - 6/22/2014 9:01:23 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

That is not always going to be the case. You can't seem to look beyond what is here and now. Yes, at the moment things in general are powered by gasoline. But given a proper transition over time, it won't always be that way, and if you think it will then that's extremely gullible and narrow sighted of you.


Son, we're all aware that someday cold fusion will be achieved and we can all fly to Alpha Centauri on an energy pack the size of two kernels of Uncle Bens rice at a cost of less than 45 cents, but today we need to deal with the world as we know it as well as what we can reasonably expect and that would likely be a doubling or tripling of fuel and related efficiencies in our lifetimes.

We can also expect that now that the U.S. is a net exporter of some of our energy needs and capabilities, the desire for the government to see lower fuel prices (since the money stays here and is taxed here) is significantly reduced.

You're 20 years old, claiming to be a Dom. You're barely old enough to understand the term let alone the full concept of such a responsibility with others. You've got older, far wiser people here doing their best to educate you, yet you still insist on attempting to be the smartest guy in the room.

Come back in 25 years and you may just be.

And, just for the record, wanna know the best way to become the smartest guy in the room?

Stop moving your lips and start cupping your hands behind your ears.

< Message edited by LookieNoNookie -- 6/22/2014 9:02:29 PM >

(in reply to Tkman117)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Canada OKs oil pipeline to the Pacific Coast... - 6/22/2014 9:05:47 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Right, its diesel that powers the generators 99.999% of the time


Do you really believe that the U.S. does not have any nuclear or hydro power?



That was a big propaganda scheme begun in the early 70's.

There are no nuclear or hydro power plants in the United States.

Never has been.

All of that was fabricated in a studio in area 51.

(in reply to HunterS)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Canada OKs oil pipeline to the Pacific Coast... - 6/22/2014 9:09:20 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

Are you really that dense? Trains all over the world use electricity, not oil/gas to run.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_locomotive

And I never said anything about shale, where the hell did you get that BS?


Electric trains are powered by Diesel.

(They're hybrids....be aware, if they had batteries that could carry 293 other wheeled devices behind them full of ore or Christmas presents for longer than 11 minutes per charge....they'd have a Prius that could go cross country with one charge).

Diesel is a petroleum product, and much electricity is generated with fossil fuels.


Someone needs to call the Press.

< Message edited by LookieNoNookie -- 6/22/2014 9:11:31 PM >

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Canada OKs oil pipeline to the Pacific Coast... - 6/22/2014 10:57:35 PM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie


quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Right, its diesel that powers the generators 99.999% of the time


Do you really believe that the U.S. does not have any nuclear or hydro power?



That was a big propaganda scheme begun in the early 70's.

There are no nuclear or hydro power plants in the United States.

Never has been.

All of that was fabricated in a studio in area 51.


Ummm... What about these nuclear plants Lookie??
http://www.nrc.gov/reactors/operating/map-power-reactors.html

And these hydro plants??
http://globalenergyobservatory.org/list.php?db=PowerPlants&type=Hydro


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Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Canada OKs oil pipeline to the Pacific Coast... - 6/22/2014 11:21:29 PM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie
Electric trains are powered by Diesel.

(They're hybrids....be aware, if they had batteries that could carry 293 other wheeled devices behind them full of ore or Christmas presents for longer than 11 minutes per charge....they'd have a Prius that could go cross country with one charge).

This is where the US is waay behind most other first-world industrialised countries.

Of all our electric trains, only 2 were hybrid diesel/electric and only the class 73 is still in use.
The remainder are pure electric - no diesel.
That's because our electrification systems uses a 3rd rail or overhead power lines.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_Rail_modern_traction_locomotive_classes#Electric_locomotives
and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railway_electrification_in_Great_Britain
...and we still haven't finished yet.

The French are even more electrified than we are.
The US are lagging way behind in this respect as most of their rail infrastructure outside of the subways are not electrified so most of their electric trains need to be hybrid.
Canada is still investigating more electrification I think.


_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
George Orwell, 1903-1950


(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Canada OKs oil pipeline to the Pacific Coast... - 6/22/2014 11:45:55 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
The President has little ability to impact the price of gasoline. There's plenty of shit to pile on Obama, but this isn't one of those turds.

Bullshit
Placing oil fields off limits through executive order, putting off the pipeline decision forever, directing his EPA goons and his IRS goons etc to crack down on every aspect of the energy industry, etc, are but a few of the ways Obama has driven fuel prices (and food prices, and electricity prices etc) to a six year high


What does our petroleum production look like? Looks like we haven't seen this level of production since the early 1990's.

I think a more damaging impact is the devaluing of the dollar, which has been going on since the Reagan Administration, at least.


Yep.

The value of the dollar as is any currency, is only in comparison to other currencies and then as a store of wealth. That means the labor one can expect to obtain for each unit. The current rather than historic devaluation of the dollar has been in almost lock step with overall US borrowing since 2000 and at all levels not just the federal govt. although that makes things worse.

That the US consumer is also required to borrow more and more to try to pay their bills compounded by business and govt. debt, has the markets concerned that [we] will not be able to continue to pay the interest. This in turn means that as borrowing costs go up and debt goes up even further to cover it...the currency loses its battle against other currencies because 80% of the world still holds US dollars in reserve and may now start selling it and any dollar-fixed debt.

This causes a downward path resulting in the sale of dollar denominated debt which will increase interest on more debt which further reduces the dollar as a future store of wealth. This has nothing to do with oil. The only reason interest rates haven't spiked already is the fed increase in balance sheet debt and the stubborn world-wide, anti-inflationary belief in the American workforce. (labor)

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Canada OKs oil pipeline to the Pacific Coast... - 6/23/2014 6:27:05 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117
That is not always going to be the case. You can't seem to look beyond what is here and now. Yes, at the moment things in general are powered by gasoline. But given a proper transition over time, it won't always be that way, and if you think it will then that's extremely gullible and narrow sighted of you.

Son, we're all aware that someday cold fusion will be achieved and we can all fly to Alpha Centauri on an energy pack the size of two kernels of Uncle Bens rice at a cost of less than 45 cents, but today we need to deal with the world as we know it as well as what we can reasonably expect and that would likely be a doubling or tripling of fuel and related efficiencies in our lifetimes.
We can also expect that now that the U.S. is a net exporter of some of our energy needs and capabilities, the desire for the government to see lower fuel prices (since the money stays here and is taxed here) is significantly reduced.


Why isn't the government listening to the people?!? We need to follow the majority and research what 84% of respondents to a Gallup poll believed was going to power the "next generation." And people claim government is full of We the People's Representatives.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Canada OKs oil pipeline to the Pacific Coast... - 6/23/2014 7:07:15 AM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
I don't understand why everyone keeps focusing on production numbers.. that is only one part of the equation.. the other part is consumption.. and the US is the worlds largest oil consumer.. the US sucks up 18.5 million barrels/day..

http://www.eia.gov/countries/index.cfm?view=consumption


Contrary to the propaganda we are probably around 20th in per capita oil consumption

Even at that, why is it bad or how is it bad that people in the United States use oil to pave roads, run farm equipment, travel our vast nation, grow, manufacture and transport all kinds of goods, and so on. We do a world of good with oil...

I see people up and down the street with 2 or 3 or 4 cars in their driveway.. So if people are gonna bitch about the cost, the damage to the environment, pollution, etc then don't use it, or at the very least reduce as much as possible cuz if you don't, then you are the problem..

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 100
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