Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Rights and Responsibilities; Being a Good Guy with a Gun


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Rights and Responsibilities; Being a Good Guy with a Gun Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Rights and Responsibilities; Being a Good Guy with ... - 6/19/2014 4:23:55 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Third when the cops show up your firearm should not be aimed at them, on the ground would be good.

And that is where things get complicated. You assume that you will see the cops arrive and that the violence will be over. If that isn't the case...


...Better have that death insurance policy paid up and current. Those cops will see some guy waving a gun around, think, "That's the gunman" and drop him under a hail of gunfire.

Or worst, some CCW holder does not observe the initial situation, rounds the corner, see's the first CCW holder firing on someone, and shots him/her in the back....then the cops....drop him.

An who is to say a CCW holder is not part of the actual plan? Waiting to see if there are any 'heroes' that try to react to the original situation and eliminate them before joining their friends in the mayhem.

.

Joether, you know the cops don't do that with the actual shooters but you assume they will with the armed citizen, how obtuse.

You also fall into the trap of assuming the ccw holder will shoot anyone but the bad guy.

The third point is pure paranoia.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 6/19/2014 4:25:30 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Rights and Responsibilities; Being a Good Guy with ... - 6/19/2014 4:29:26 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Searcher916

BamaD said "Second he is wrong, I have defused multiple situations with firearms."

What exactly were the situations? Could you please describe in detail what happened?

They were all pretty much the same.
Drug dealers coming on to my property, being real tough and dangerous till they realized that I was armed, and which point they got out of Dodge.
I have a friend who was in the process of being carjacked till he stuck a derringer in the carjackers chest at which time the carjacker suddenly remembered another county he had to be in.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Searcher916)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Rights and Responsibilities; Being a Good Guy with ... - 6/19/2014 4:30:52 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS


quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

Wilcox was armed—he saw Miller and believed he had the opportunity to intervene. But he didn't notice a smaller woman standing by, with a shopping cart and a handbag. That was Miller's wife Amanda, and she too was armed; in an instant, she shot and killed Wilcox.

Wilcox was supposed to be one of the good guys, but owning a gun may have cost him his life."



I am unsure what makes Wilcox a good guy.
He went out in public armed.
Certainly this is not illegal.
Why was Wilcox armed in public?
Most of us have the ability to go armed in public why did Wilcox go armed when nearly everyone else did not?
Wilcox chose to go armed in public so that he migh insert himself into any public strife where a gun would give him an advantage. How did he not suffer the consequences for which he set himself up?


Either bad tactics or bad luck

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to HunterS)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Rights and Responsibilities; Being a Good Guy with ... - 6/19/2014 4:44:12 PM   
igor2003


Posts: 1718
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS


quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

Wilcox was armed—he saw Miller and believed he had the opportunity to intervene. But he didn't notice a smaller woman standing by, with a shopping cart and a handbag. That was Miller's wife Amanda, and she too was armed; in an instant, she shot and killed Wilcox.

Wilcox was supposed to be one of the good guys, but owning a gun may have cost him his life."



I am unsure what makes Wilcox a good guy.
Personally, I'd say he was a "good guy" if for no other reason than that he at least attempted to stop a bad situation from getting worse. Shooting timeline: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/09/las-vegas-shooting-timeline-_n_5475808.html

He went out in public armed.
Certainly this is not illegal.
It seems he was within the bounds of the law.

Why was Wilcox armed in public?
Maybe because both the U.S. Constitution as well as local laws allowed him to be.

Most of us have the ability to go armed in public why did Wilcox go armed when nearly everyone else did not?
Why shouldn't he if he was obeying all legal restrictions? It was his right.

Wilcox chose to go armed in public so that he migh insert himself into any public strife where a gun would give him an advantage. How did he not suffer the consequences for which he set himself up?
He did suffer the consequences. That, in and of itself, does not make him "not a good guy". All too often something bad starts to happen and no one does anything. Often that is because the people just don't have the means to make a difference. He HAD the means. And he tried to do something. Perhaps foolishly. But at least he tried. In reading the timeline...if it is accurate...it says that Miller fired only one shot. He apparently didn't shoot AT anyone. It seems that he did it only to get peoples attention, after which he told everyone to get out of the store.

It was at this point that Wilcox made the decision to confront, or try to stop Miller. So, the question for me is, did he do it to try to stop innocent people from being hurt or killed even though Miller had told everyone to leave, or did he do it to be a hero?

So for me he was a "good guy" for at least trying. I'm just not sure about his motives.




_____________________________

If the women don't find you handsome they should at least find you handy. - Red Green

At my age erections are like cops...there's never one around when you need it!

Never miss a good chance to shut up. - Will Rogers


(in reply to HunterS)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Rights and Responsibilities; Being a Good Guy with ... - 6/19/2014 4:49:14 PM   
HunterS


Posts: 553
Joined: 10/21/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

They were all pretty much the same.
Drug dealers coming on to my property, being real tough and dangerous till they realized that I was armed, and which point they got out of Dodge.
I have a friend who was in the process of being carjacked till he stuck a derringer in the carjackers chest at which time the carjacker suddenly remembered another county he had to be in.


Why would a drug dealer come to your property except to do business?
Your stories seem more than a little self serving so maybe you will forgive us if we all shout "bullshit" in unison.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Rights and Responsibilities; Being a Good Guy with ... - 6/19/2014 4:59:46 PM   
HunterS


Posts: 553
Joined: 10/21/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: igor2003

He went out in public armed.
Certainly this is not illegal.
It seems he was within the bounds of the law.


I stated that already why are you repeating me?

quote:

Why was Wilcox armed in public?
Maybe because both the U.S. Constitution as well as local laws allowed him to be.


That is not the question I asked.

quote:

Most of us have the ability to go armed in public why did Wilcox go armed when nearly everyone else did not?
Why shouldn't he if he was obeying all legal restrictions? It was his right.

Once again for the reading challanged that is not the question I asked.






< Message edited by HunterS -- 6/19/2014 5:01:41 PM >

(in reply to igor2003)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Rights and Responsibilities; Being a Good Guy with ... - 6/19/2014 5:11:57 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

They were all pretty much the same.
Drug dealers coming on to my property, being real tough and dangerous till they realized that I was armed, and which point they got out of Dodge.
I have a friend who was in the process of being carjacked till he stuck a derringer in the carjackers chest at which time the carjacker suddenly remembered another county he had to be in.


Why would a drug dealer come to your property except to do business?
Your stories seem more than a little self serving so maybe you will forgive us if we all shout "bullshit" in unison.


My property was, for a couple of years the last bastion of civilization in my neighborhood. A couple of them started off trying to make a sale and got hostile when I told them to get lost. One claimed to be a dealer but his actions indicated his intent was burglary and assault. You can yell bullshit all you want but it doesn't make it so.
Give me one example where the cops shot the ccw holder instead of the bad guy.
Give me one example of the ccw holder in this situation shooting everyone but the bad guy.
I call bullshit on both of those.

Self serving == supports my position.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to HunterS)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Rights and Responsibilities; Being a Good Guy with ... - 6/19/2014 5:34:13 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Third when the cops show up your firearm should not be aimed at them, on the ground would be good.

And that is where things get complicated. You assume that you will see the cops arrive and that the violence will be over. If that isn't the case...

If that isn't the case, although it will be 99.9% of the time, you drop your gun and lay on the ground.

You're psychic?

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Rights and Responsibilities; Being a Good Guy with ... - 6/19/2014 5:37:44 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Third when the cops show up your firearm should not be aimed at them, on the ground would be good.

And that is where things get complicated. You assume that you will see the cops arrive and that the violence will be over. If that isn't the case...

If that isn't the case, although it will be 99.9% of the time, you drop your gun and lay on the ground.

You're psychic?

Average response time 15 minutes, average gunfight under a minute,
don't need to be a psychic

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Rights and Responsibilities; Being a Good Guy with ... - 6/19/2014 5:39:35 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS

quote:

ORIGINAL: igor2003

He went out in public armed.
Certainly this is not illegal.
It seems he was within the bounds of the law.


I stated that already why are you repeating me?

quote:

Why was Wilcox armed in public?
Maybe because both the U.S. Constitution as well as local laws allowed him to be.


That is not the question I asked.

quote:

Most of us have the ability to go armed in public why did Wilcox go armed when nearly everyone else did not?
Why shouldn't he if he was obeying all legal restrictions? It was his right.

Once again for the reading challanged that is not the question I asked.






Given these things it behooves you to prove why he shouldn't have had a gun, other than you don't want him to.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to HunterS)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Rights and Responsibilities; Being a Good Guy with ... - 6/19/2014 6:16:20 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		FR
From some of the comments on here you would think that Wilcox was the villain of the piece.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Rights and Responsibilities; Being a Good Guy with ... - 6/19/2014 6:35:34 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		I noticed that too.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Rights and Responsibilities; Being a Good Guy with ... - 6/20/2014 5:26:25 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

They were all pretty much the same.
Drug dealers coming on to my property, being real tough and dangerous till they realized that I was armed, and which point they got out of Dodge.
I have a friend who was in the process of being carjacked till he stuck a derringer in the carjackers chest at which time the carjacker suddenly remembered another county he had to be in.


Why would a drug dealer come to your property except to do business?
Your stories seem more than a little self serving so maybe you will forgive us if we all shout "bullshit" in unison.



The ones who went up to my friends house claimed they were dong it to offer fantastic deals on electronic equipment. When they noticed her husband standing in the background with a gun they remembered another appointment they had to be at and left promising to come back the next day with better stuff. The cops who showed up after they left said they were doing it to case houses for future robberies and to get rid of stolen goods. Amazingly enough they never came back so we will never know for sure.

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to HunterS)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Rights and Responsibilities; Being a Good Guy with ... - 6/20/2014 5:30:58 AM   
Tkman117


Posts: 1353
Joined: 5/21/2012
Status: offline 		Jesus, how shitty is your country that you have to worry about this stuff all the time? Goes to show what a corrupt government and a failing education system does to country, even to the "leaders of the free world"

< Message edited by Tkman117 -- 6/20/2014 5:31:15 AM >

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Rights and Responsibilities; Being a Good Guy with ... - 6/20/2014 5:44:53 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

Jesus, how shitty is your country that you have to worry about this stuff all the time? Goes to show what a corrupt government and a failing education system does to country, even to the "leaders of the free world"


I don't have to worry about this stuff all the time. My friend does because she lives in Detroit. But you are right about what a corrupt government and failing education can do to a city. Care to guess which side has been in control for the last 50 years. I also find it amusing that you think one story about one family can tell you how all americans live. It makes me wonder about your own education system and just what kind of bullshit they are feeding you up there.

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to Tkman117)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Rights and Responsibilities; Being a Good Guy with ... - 6/20/2014 5:59:11 AM   
Tkman117


Posts: 1353
Joined: 5/21/2012
Status: offline 		Well, considering all of the other crazy shit that we hear coming out of the US, coupled with the fact that the USA just ranked 101 on the list of most peaceful (And Canada at 7) where they took about 22 factors into consideration (education included), it makes me wonder why immigrants even want to go to the USA anymore. In short, your country sucks. The only thing you dont suck at is locking people up and having the biggest military in the world. Congrats

http://www.visionofhumanity.org/sites/default/files/2014%20Global%20Peace%20Index%20REPORT_0.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Zd1hZDvJ0Y

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Rights and Responsibilities; Being a Good Guy with ... - 6/20/2014 6:02:39 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

Jesus, how shitty is your country that you have to worry about this stuff all the time? Goes to show what a corrupt government and a failing education system does to country, even to the "leaders of the free world"

Before you go too far down this road, Canada is hardly immune.

There's plenty of crap here, yes.

But the disparity is the economic development and sheer population size. Canada is the next largest county than . . . Iraq.

And the US is your largest trading partner, by FAR.


(in reply to Tkman117)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Rights and Responsibilities; Being a Good Guy with ... - 6/20/2014 6:13:46 AM   
Tkman117


Posts: 1353
Joined: 5/21/2012
Status: offline 		Oh we're hardly immune, I completely agree. But we're much better off in most realms, can't really disagree there.

And ya, the US is our largest trading partner. I'm just grateful that only goods and currency have crossed the border, not insane ideologies. The way I see it is the US is gonna collapse in on itself in the next 20-30 years if nothing changes, and unfortunately it will drag us down too. Which absolutely sucks and I definitely dont look forward to it.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Rights and Responsibilities; Being a Good Guy with ... - 6/20/2014 6:15:00 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		You can fuck off now, O Vision of Utopia.

(in reply to Tkman117)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Rights and Responsibilities; Being a Good Guy with ... - 6/20/2014 6:21:05 AM   
Tkman117


Posts: 1353
Joined: 5/21/2012
Status: offline 		We're not a utopia, far from it. We got a crappy prime minister cutting environmental regulations to pass an unpopular oil pipeline from Alberta to BC and the Bloc Quebecois (a popular political party in Quebec) just appointed a hardcore separatists as their leader, yay us. The point I'm trying to make is that the rest of the 1st world are doing things a certain way, and the USA is doing the opposite and it's bringing you guys down. I like Americans and I won't lie, you're crucial to the world economy, proof being the 2008 crisis. If you fail, we all fail, but if you don't start changing things around and catch up to the rest of us, no one will be able to move forward and then we're all fucked.

< Message edited by Tkman117 -- 6/20/2014 6:30:37 AM >

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 40
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Rights and Responsibilities; Being a Good Guy with a Gun Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.098