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English Fluency, a Reasonable Request - 7/2/2014 10:12:33 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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Status: offline 		I am not sure why President Obama's Administration finds it necessary to pick a fight it knows it cannot win and spend millions of taxpayer dollars doing so but clearly, fluency in English is a reasonable request.

Federal Gov’t Sues Wisconsin Company, Says English-Language Requirement is 'Discrimination'

< Message edited by FatDomDaddy -- 7/2/2014 10:15:38 PM >
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RE: English Fluency, a Reasonable Request - 7/2/2014 10:28:42 PM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		Think about it. The company hired these workers so they spoke English well enough to start working but then suddenly it wasn't good enough? Did their English get worse? Doubtful.

As always the right wing hate media fell for a bunch of bullshit.

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RE: English Fluency, a Reasonable Request - 7/2/2014 10:42:29 PM   
RockaRolla


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quote:

“When speaking English fluently is not, in fact, required for the safe and effective performance of a job,


Such a job does not exist here. Even if you're not communicating with the public, you still have to interact with your supervisors, subordinates, and/or colleagues.

Honestly, I think you should have a working knowledge of the country's dominant language if you intend to live/work there. Whether that country is the USA or elsewhere.

PS. This lawsuit was brought about by the EEOC, a separate agency from the White House. Why does everyone assume Obama is the sole person taking care of every aspect of the US government?

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RE: English Fluency, a Reasonable Request - 7/2/2014 11:54:25 PM   
smileforme50


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From: DelaWHERE(?)
Status: offline 		I agree with what both DomKen and RockaRolla said....

I think unless you are in an area of the country where English is not the most common language, then the ability to speak English IS required for a person to do their job effectively because they do need to communicate with co-workers and supervisors at some point.

BUT..... obviously at some point these people spoke English well enough to apply for and get the job to begin with....what happened? Did they suddenly forget? Why didn't this company realize how bad their grasp of the language was BEFORE they hired them?

And to echo what RockaRolla said...."PS. This lawsuit was brought about by the EEOC, a separate agency from the White House. Why does everyone assume Obama is the sole person taking care of every aspect of the US government?" I will never understand that....



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RE: English Fluency, a Reasonable Request - 7/3/2014 12:25:58 AM   
Lucylastic


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RE: English Fluency, a Reasonable Request - 7/3/2014 12:28:55 AM   
RockaRolla


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Because he is obama...

Yeah, that's not an answer.

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RE: English Fluency, a Reasonable Request - 7/3/2014 12:40:46 AM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		Its the most sensible answer, when you look at a haters reasoning.

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RE: English Fluency, a Reasonable Request - 7/3/2014 3:54:41 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Its the most sensible answer, when you look at a haters reasoning.


Haters dont reason sweetie...... As shown by the OP.

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RE: English Fluency, a Reasonable Request - 7/3/2014 4:01:32 AM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		heh it was 3.30 in the morning, I was thinking sleepily

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RE: English Fluency, a Reasonable Request - 7/3/2014 6:54:57 AM   
PeonForHer


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I can't speak for the US case, but here in the UK my strong feeling is that those who want to push this policy are very often also the ones most likely to be bitten in the arse by it. Time and time again I've seen the demand for 'good English in the workplace' fired at immigrants by people who can't string the simplest sentence together.

Suppose a factory or an office were to start testing for good English and this were to result in most indigenous whites failing, while the immigrants were passing and getting the jobs? It's not going to look very convincing if the whites then start to complain about 'racism', is it?

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RE: English Fluency, a Reasonable Request - 7/3/2014 7:03:11 AM   
dryhump


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Status: offline 		it is not about fluency....it is a trap door to get the republican house to get on board with amnesty....like boarder security, if Obama signs any deal, all the things they gave the republicans will go away....Obama doesn't follow laws....

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RE: English Fluency, a Reasonable Request - 7/3/2014 7:05:08 AM   
cloudboy


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As an English language speaker, I truly feel under seige by this and the general feeling that America is being taken over by illegal immigrants. All of it is Obama's fault.

Instead of the $18 Billion we're spending on Immigration Enforcement, I think we need to spend $36B.

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RE: English Fluency, a Reasonable Request - 7/3/2014 7:15:00 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dryhump

it is not about fluency....it is a trap door to get the republican house to get on board with amnesty....like boarder security, if Obama signs any deal, all the things they gave the republicans will go away....Obama doesn't follow laws....

Sure. A minor lawsuit against a plastic company in Green Bay WI is part of a plan to trick the Republicans in the House to do something they have said they are not going to do.

Please ask the nurse to increase your meds.

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RE: English Fluency, a Reasonable Request - 7/3/2014 7:44:01 AM   
Marc2b


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quote:

I can't speak for the US case, but here in the UK my strong feeling is that those who want to push this policy are very often also the ones most likely to be bitten in the arse by it. Time and time again I've seen the demand for 'good English in the workplace' fired at immigrants by people who can't string the simplest sentence together.

Suppose a factory or an office were to start testing for good English and this were to result in most indigenous whites failing, while the immigrants were passing and getting the jobs? It's not going to look very convincing if the whites then start to complain about 'racism', is it?


Arse?

Speak English or die, foreigner!

Other hand-dandy ways of spotting foreigners from real, English speaking, Americans:

Ask him to spell the following words: color, labor, harbor. If he puts a "U" in any of them . . . HE'S A FOREIGNER!

Ask him to pronounce the word "schedule" if he pronounces it as "shed-u-al" instead of "sked-ju-al: . . . HE'S A FOREIGNER!

Invite him over for a fish fry. If at any point he calls it "fish and chips" . . . HE'S A FOREIGNER!

Offer him some potato chips. If he calls them "crisps" . . . HE'S A FOREIGNER!

Start humming the tune to "My Country, 'Tis of Thee." If he starts singing "God Save the Queen" . . . HE'S A FOREIGNER!

Hand him a newspaper. If he opens it to page three and then looks disappointed . . . HE'S A FOREIGNER!

If he offers you a fag and holds out a cig . . .

Well you get the idea



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RE: English Fluency, a Reasonable Request - 7/3/2014 8:00:28 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

I am not sure why President Obama's Administration finds it necessary to pick a fight it knows it cannot win and spend millions of taxpayer dollars doing so but clearly, fluency in English is a reasonable request.

Federal Gov’t Sues Wisconsin Company, Says English-Language Requirement is 'Discrimination'

At issue isn't English fluency, but whether this is true:

"Our experience at the EEOC has been that so-called 'English only' rules and requirements of English fluency are often employed to make what is really discrimination appear acceptable. But superficial appearances are not fooling anyone,” Hendrickson said in the release. “When speaking English fluently is not, in fact, required for the safe and effective performance of a job, nor for the successful operation of the employer’s business, requiring employees to be fluent in English usually constitutes employment discrimination on the basis of national origin — and thus violates federal law.”

That's what the courts will ascertain -- whether fluency is a smokescreen for deliberate discrimination.

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RE: English Fluency, a Reasonable Request - 7/3/2014 8:05:43 AM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		What I don't understand is why did they hire them in the first place? I mean why bother to hire someone then turn right around and fire them. All that would do is waste time, productivity, and increase insurance costs.

I think perhaps they did hire them in good faith but found that the language barrier was more of a problem than they thought it would be.

So maybe they are not the bastards everyone is making them out to be.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 7/3/2014 8:06:36 AM >

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RE: English Fluency, a Reasonable Request - 7/3/2014 8:22:39 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
What I don't understand is why did they hire them in the first place? I mean why bother to hire someone then turn right around and fire them. All that would do is waste time, productivity, and increase insurance costs.
I think perhaps they did hire them in good faith but found that the language barrier was more of a problem than they thought it would be.
So maybe they are not the bastards everyone is making them out to be.
Butch


I don't know. I suppose it's technically possible. I just don't see it. I can't imagine HR and whoever else is in charge of hiring has such lax standards that they don't realize how important it is to be able to effectively communicate.

They hired those people in with the knowledge that their English fluency was limited. I've got to sit opposed to the company on this one. Had their fluency prevented them from being hired in the first place, that would be massively different, imo.


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RE: English Fluency, a Reasonable Request - 7/3/2014 8:24:37 AM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline 		What we have here is a company that had two directions it could have gone in handling a problem before it. They could simply fire those that did not meet their criteria and risk lawsuits and government action; or take a hit on net profits to improve its workers. We all know which direction the company went, so lets not B.S. further on that front.

The other direction would be to hold English language courses for the employees. Hire some of those unemployed English students recently graduating from colleges and universities across the nation. Beats having to flip burgers and make fries, right? (ducks) Improving the quality of a company's employees can be an asset in several ways. Shows a company is taking a pro-active approach to help the community, that its doing something noble, and those employees skills make them better able to handle other problems that may come up. A PR person could have a field day on this.

But requiring someone to speak English would be a violation of the 1st Amendment. Hey, I didn't make the rules, nor vote on them back in the 18th century. The company was penalized for being stupid and paid a price for its bad decision by management.

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RE: English Fluency, a Reasonable Request - 7/3/2014 8:28:14 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		But you have not explained why they hired them in the first place... Are you saying they purposely hired them just to be racists and fire them with glee? That makes no sense whatsoever.

The ONLY thing that makes sense is they hired them then it didn't work out...a mistake.

Now if you want to find a reason to call them asses it could be they hired them because the could pay them less... then it backfired on them. But we would need more information before that could be said.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 7/3/2014 8:35:59 AM >

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Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: English Fluency, a Reasonable Request - 7/3/2014 8:34:54 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		You can't blame a company fighting for profit and a reasonable bottom line in this economic climate in not turning their business into a school house. We just don't know all the economic circumstances involved to be judges.

These type of stories seldom tell the full story or they would not sell.

Butch

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Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to joether)
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