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Lois Lerner - 7/11/2014 10:11:16 PM   
TheHeretic


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There is a part of me that wants to say, "fuck it, let's just waterboard the bitch." Using the IRS as a partisan tool is a bigger threat to our liberty than any terrorist in 'Gitmo ever dreamed of being.

It turns out Lerner instructed staff to be very careful in what went into inter-office emails, and was asking tech if the instant messenger kept copies.

It's the cover-up that gets them.

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RE: Lois Lerner - 7/11/2014 10:28:42 PM   
Sanity


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People are getting scandal fatigue with this administration

To paraphrase Hillary, "So what if we got people killed in Benghazi"

That might be the worst danger, Obama is many times worse than Nixon and people are yawning



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RE: Lois Lerner - 7/11/2014 10:32:42 PM   
subrosaDom


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Couple that with the low-information voter educated by our wrong-information educational indoctrination system as well as they haughty journalists of today, products of the same politically correct system, and it's no wonder people are yawning so wide that they, too, could swallow Jonah.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

People are getting scandal fatigue with this administration

To paraphrase Hillary, "So what if we got people killed in Benghazi"

That might be the worst danger, Obama is many times worse than Nixon and people are yawning




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RE: Lois Lerner - 7/12/2014 4:29:55 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
There is a part of me that wants to say, "fuck it, let's just waterboard the bitch." Using the IRS as a partisan tool is a bigger threat to our liberty than any terrorist in 'Gitmo ever dreamed of being.
It turns out Lerner instructed staff to be very careful in what went into inter-office emails, and was asking tech if the instant messenger kept copies.
It's the cover-up that gets them.


Oh, come on. They probably had some raunchy email and chat messages sent out, so her instructions were nothing more than a warning about sexual harassment liabilities.


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RE: Lois Lerner - 7/12/2014 4:31:34 AM   
DomKen


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How about this, a competent prosecutor determine that a crime has actually been committed, convene a grand jury, convince that grand jury to indict her, prosecute her in front of a jury of her peers and then we'll see. Till then STFU.

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RE: Lois Lerner - 7/12/2014 6:59:00 AM   
Sanity


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

How about this, a competent prosecutor determine that a crime has actually been committed, convene a grand jury, convince that grand jury to indict her, prosecute her in front of a jury of her peers and then we'll see. Till then STFU.


Because its a Democrat crook in charge

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RE: Lois Lerner - 7/12/2014 7:16:40 AM   
joether


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
How about this, a competent prosecutor determine that a crime has actually been committed, convene a grand jury, convince that grand jury to indict her, prosecute her in front of a jury of her peers and then we'll see. Till then STFU.

Because its a Democrat crook in charge


So you would rather have a court cased rigged, rather than giving someone a fair trial, even if they are indeed one guilty individual?

And if she lied, how many people got killed because of it? Because I know this 'crew' that lied to America about Iraq and got....THOUSANDS....of Americans killed. On top of that, got.....TENS of THOUSANDS...more Americans with long term injuries. Because they were not 'honest' or 'truthful' about things under their watch, to the same level as you accuse Mrs. Lerner.....


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RE: Lois Lerner - 7/12/2014 7:20:44 AM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

How about this, a competent prosecutor determine that a crime has actually been committed, convene a grand jury, convince that grand jury to indict her, prosecute her in front of a jury of her peers and then we'll see. Till then STFU.


Nice to see you finally coming around, Ken. I've been saying this needed a special prosecutor since before the first cover story was shattered.

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RE: Lois Lerner - 7/12/2014 7:21:45 AM   
Sanity


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"Bush lied"?

Really?

CNN/AllPolitics - Storypage, with TIME and Congressional Quarterly

Transcript: President Clinton explains Iraq strike

CLINTON: Good evening.

Earlier today, I ordered America's armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq. They are joined by British forces. Their mission is to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors.

Their purpose is to protect the national interest of the United States, and indeed the interests of people throughout the Middle East and around the world.

Saddam Hussein must not be allowed to threaten his neighbors or the world with nuclear arms, poison gas or biological weapons.

I want to explain why I have decided, with the unanimous recommendation of my national security team, to use force in Iraq; why we have acted now; and what we aim to accomplish.

Six weeks ago, Saddam Hussein announced that he would no longer cooperate with the United Nations weapons inspectors called UNSCOM. They are highly professional experts from dozens of countries. Their job is to oversee the elimination of Iraq's capability to retain, create and use weapons of mass destruction, and to verify that Iraq does not attempt to rebuild that capability.

The inspectors undertook this mission first 7.5 years ago at the end of the Gulf War when Iraq agreed to declare and destroy its arsenal as a condition of the ceasefire.

The international community had good reason to set this requirement. Other countries possess weapons of mass destruction and ballistic missiles. With Saddam, there is one big difference: He has used them. Not once, but repeatedly. Unleashing chemical weapons against Iranian troops during a decade-long war. Not only against soldiers, but against civilians, firing Scud missiles at the citizens of Israel, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain and Iran. And not only against a foreign enemy, but even against his own people, gassing Kurdish civilians in Northern Iraq.

The international community had little doubt then, and I have no doubt today, that left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will use these terrible weapons again.

The United States has patiently worked to preserve UNSCOM as Iraq has sought to avoid its obligation to cooperate with the inspectors. On occasion, we've had to threaten military force, and Saddam has backed down.

Faced with Saddam's latest act of defiance in late October, we built intensive diplomatic pressure on Iraq backed by overwhelming military force in the region. The UN Security Council voted 15 to zero to condemn Saddam's actions and to demand that he immediately come into compliance.

Eight Arab nations -- Egypt, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, United Arab Emirates and Oman -- warned that Iraq alone would bear responsibility for the consequences of defying the UN.

When Saddam still failed to comply, we prepared to act militarily. It was only then at the last possible moment that Iraq backed down. It pledged to the UN that it had made, and I quote, a clear and unconditional decision to resume cooperation with the weapons inspectors.

I decided then to call off the attack with our airplanes already in the air because Saddam had given in to our demands. I concluded then that the right thing to do was to use restraint and give Saddam one last chance to prove his willingness to cooperate.

I made it very clear at that time what unconditional cooperation meant, based on existing UN resolutions and Iraq's own commitments. And along with Prime Minister Blair of Great Britain, I made it equally clear that if Saddam failed to cooperate fully, we would be prepared to act without delay, diplomacy or warning.

Now over the past three weeks, the UN weapons inspectors have carried out their plan for testing Iraq's cooperation. The testing period ended this weekend, and last night, UNSCOM's chairman, Richard Butler, reported the results to UN Secretary-General Annan.

The conclusions are stark, sobering and profoundly disturbing.

In four out of the five categories set forth, Iraq has failed to cooperate. Indeed, it actually has placed new restrictions on the inspectors. Here are some of the particulars.

Iraq repeatedly blocked UNSCOM from inspecting suspect sites. For example, it shut off access to the headquarters of its ruling party and said it will deny access to the party's other offices, even though UN resolutions make no exception for them and UNSCOM has inspected them in the past.

Iraq repeatedly restricted UNSCOM's ability to obtain necessary evidence. For example, Iraq obstructed UNSCOM's effort to photograph bombs related to its chemical weapons program.

It tried to stop an UNSCOM biological weapons team from videotaping a site and photocopying documents and prevented Iraqi personnel from answering UNSCOM's questions.

Prior to the inspection of another site, Iraq actually emptied out the building, removing not just documents but even the furniture and the equipment.

Iraq has failed to turn over virtually all the documents requested by the inspectors. Indeed, we know that Iraq ordered the destruction of weapons-related documents in anticipation of an UNSCOM inspection.

So Iraq has abused its final chance.

As the UNSCOM reports concludes, and again I quote, "Iraq's conduct ensured that no progress was able to be made in the fields of disarmament.

"In light of this experience, and in the absence of full cooperation by Iraq, it must regrettably be recorded again that the commission is not able to conduct the work mandated to it by the Security Council with respect to Iraq's prohibited weapons program."

In short, the inspectors are saying that even if they could stay in Iraq, their work would be a sham.

Saddam's deception has defeated their effectiveness. Instead of the inspectors disarming Saddam, Saddam has disarmed the inspectors.

This situation presents a clear and present danger to the stability of the Persian Gulf and the safety of people everywhere. The international community gave Saddam one last chance to resume cooperation with the weapons inspectors. Saddam has failed to seize the chance.

And so we had to act and act now.

Let me explain why.

First, without a strong inspection system, Iraq would be free to retain and begin to rebuild its chemical, biological and nuclear weapons programs in months, not years.

Second, if Saddam can crippled the weapons inspection system and get away with it, he would conclude that the international community -- led by the United States -- has simply lost its will. He will surmise that he has free rein to rebuild his arsenal of destruction, and someday -- make no mistake -- he will use it again as he has in the past.

Third, in halting our air strikes in November, I gave Saddam a chance, not a license. If we turn our backs on his defiance, the credibility of U.S. power as a check against Saddam will be destroyed. We will not only have allowed Saddam to shatter the inspection system that controls his weapons of mass destruction program; we also will have fatally undercut the fear of force that stops Saddam from acting to gain domination in the region.

That is why, on the unanimous recommendation of my national security team -- including the vice president, the secretary of defense, the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, the secretary of state and the national security adviser -- I have ordered a strong, sustained series of air strikes against Iraq.

They are designed to degrade Saddam's capacity to develop and deliver weapons of mass destruction, and to degrade his ability to threaten his neighbors.

At the same time, we are delivering a powerful message to Saddam. If you act recklessly, you will pay a heavy price. We acted today because, in the judgment of my military advisers, a swift response would provide the most surprise and the least opportunity for Saddam to prepare.

If we had delayed for even a matter of days from Chairman Butler's report, we would have given Saddam more time to disperse his forces and protect his weapons.

Also, the Muslim holy month of Ramadan begins this weekend. For us to initiate military action during Ramadan would be profoundly offensive to the Muslim world and, therefore, would damage our relations with Arab countries and the progress we have made in the Middle East.

That is something we wanted very much to avoid without giving Iraq's a month's head start to prepare for potential action against it.

Finally, our allies, including Prime Minister Tony Blair of Great Britain, concurred that now is the time to strike. I hope Saddam will come into cooperation with the inspection system now and comply with the relevant UN Security Council resolutions. But we have to be prepared that he will not, and we must deal with the very real danger he poses.

So we will pursue a long-term strategy to contain Iraq and its weapons of mass destruction and work toward the day when Iraq has a government worthy of its people.

First, we must be prepared to use force again if Saddam takes threatening actions, such as trying to reconstitute his weapons of mass destruction or their delivery systems, threatening his neighbors, challenging allied aircraft over Iraq or moving against his own Kurdish citizens.

The credible threat to use force, and when necessary, the actual use of force, is the surest way to contain Saddam's weapons of mass destruction program, curtail his aggression and prevent another Gulf War.

Second, so long as Iraq remains out of compliance, we will work with the international community to maintain and enforce economic sanctions. Sanctions have cost Saddam more than $120 billion -- resources that would have been used to rebuild his military. The sanctions system allows Iraq to sell oil for food, for medicine, for other humanitarian supplies for the Iraqi people.

We have no quarrel with them. But without the sanctions, we would see the oil-for-food program become oil-for-tanks, resulting in a greater threat to Iraq's neighbors and less food for its people.

The hard fact is that so long as Saddam remains in power, he threatens the well-being of his people, the peace of his region, the security of the world.

The best way to end that threat once and for all is with a new Iraqi government -- a government ready to live in peace with its neighbors, a government that respects the rights of its people. Bringing change in Baghdad will take time and effort. We will strengthen our engagement with the full range of Iraqi opposition forces and work with them effectively and prudently.

The decision to use force is never cost-free. Whenever American forces are placed in harm's way, we risk the loss of life. And while our strikes are focused on Iraq's military capabilities, there will be unintended Iraqi casualties.

Indeed, in the past, Saddam has intentionally placed Iraqi civilians in harm's way in a cynical bid to sway international opinion.

We must be prepared for these realities. At the same time, Saddam should have absolutely no doubt if he lashes out at his neighbors, we will respond forcefully.

Heavy as they are, the costs of action must be weighed against the price of inaction. If Saddam defies the world and we fail to respond, we will face a far greater threat in the future. Saddam will strike again at his neighbors. He will make war on his own people.

And mark my words, he will develop weapons of mass destruction. He will deploy them, and he will use them.

Because we're acting today, it is less likely that we will face these dangers in the future.

Let me close by addressing one other issue. Saddam Hussein and the other enemies of peace may have thought that the serious debate currently before the House of Representatives would distract Americans or weaken our resolve to face him down.

But once more, the United States has proven that although we are never eager to use force, when we must act in America's vital interests, we will do so.

In the century we're leaving, America has often made the difference between chaos and community, fear and hope. Now, in the new century, we'll have a remarkable opportunity to shape a future more peaceful than the past, but only if we stand strong against the enemies of peace.

Tonight, the United States is doing just that. May God bless and protect the brave men and women who are carrying out this vital mission and their families. And may God bless America.

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RE: Lois Lerner - 7/12/2014 7:35:23 AM   
smileforme50


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quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
How about this, a competent prosecutor determine that a crime has actually been committed, convene a grand jury, convince that grand jury to indict her, prosecute her in front of a jury of her peers and then we'll see. Till then STFU.

Because its a Democrat crook in charge


So you would rather have a court cased rigged, rather than giving someone a fair trial, even if they are indeed one guilty individual?

And if she lied, how many people got killed because of it? Because I know this 'crew' that lied to America about Iraq and got....THOUSANDS....of Americans killed. On top of that, got.....TENS of THOUSANDS...more Americans with long term injuries. Because they were not 'honest' or 'truthful' about things under their watch, to the same level as you accuse Mrs. Lerner.....



But.....but....BUT......there were FOUR.....OMG.....FOUR!!!!!! 1...2...3...FOUR people killed in Benghazi!!!! Doesn't that make the Benghazi attacks a thousand times worse than anything little boo-boo suffered by any American soldier in Iraq or Afghanistan?

Not to mention.....We all know...and have known for a LONG time the Libya was one of the safest countries in the world for our diplomats to be in. Why would we ever think that they would be taking a risk spending time in Libya? I mean....didn't we share bake sales and quilting bees with the Libyans?


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RE: Lois Lerner - 7/12/2014 7:39:06 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:


"Bush lied"?

Really?

CNN/AllPolitics - Storypage, with TIME and Congressional Quarterly

Transcript: President Clinton explains Iraq strike

CLINTON: Good evening.

Earlier today, I ordered America's armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq. They are joined by British forces. Their mission is to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors.

Their purpose is to protect the national interest of the United States, and indeed the interests of people throughout the Middle East and around the world.

Saddam Hussein must not be allowed to threaten his neighbors or the world with nuclear arms, poison gas or biological weapons.

I want to explain why I have decided, with the unanimous recommendation of my national security team, to use force in Iraq; why we have acted now; and what we aim to accomplish.



Yes. Really. And you proved it well. Clinton cleaned all that shit up. All of it. It was the DIAs analysis, and why they said that Bush lied as well as why the American people knew Bush lied. There were no weapons of mass destruction, Clinton took care of it, after Reagan gave them to Saddam. But Lois Lerner did not participate in the bombing raids, so I think you posted the proof of Bushes lie on the wrong thread.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 7/12/2014 7:40:22 AM >


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RE: Lois Lerner - 7/12/2014 7:39:17 AM   
Sanity


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So... Leftists agree.

A president using the IRS to attack his political adversaries is no thang

On account of how much they hate George Bush

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RE: Lois Lerner - 7/12/2014 7:42:27 AM   
mnottertail


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So, rightists agree, an American President selling drugs, and arms to our enemies, and losing 400 marines and civilians overseas in an embassy, and setting up structural deficits and debt to bankrupt America, is no big thang.

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RE: Lois Lerner - 7/12/2014 7:45:31 AM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: joether


And if she lied, how many people got killed because of it? Because I know this 'crew' that lied to America about Iraq and got....THOUSANDS....of Americans killed. On top of that, got.....TENS of THOUSANDS...more Americans with long term injuries. Because they were not 'honest' or 'truthful' about things under their watch, to the same level as you accuse Mrs. Lerner.....





And I know this one President who had trying to use the IRS as a tool against his political enemies in the articles of impeachment against him.





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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: Lois Lerner - 7/12/2014 8:32:50 AM   
mnottertail


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Who was that? It must have been lost to history, it was never brought to the house, to be laughed at and shit on by the senate.

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RE: Lois Lerner - 7/12/2014 8:49:30 AM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Who was that? It must have been lost to history, it was never brought to the house, to be laughed at and shit on by the senate.



It certainly did go to the House, Ron, and the President in question resigned before the matter got to the Senate for a trial.

C'mon. Think hard. You've heard of him, I'm sure.

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RE: Lois Lerner - 7/12/2014 8:55:47 AM   
mnottertail


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http://watergate.info/impeachment/articles-of-impeachment

Point it out to me, please. English is only my first language. While it may have been in his bag of dirty tricks, I feel that is an old wive's tale.

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RE: Lois Lerner - 7/12/2014 9:16:46 AM   
TheHeretic


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I'll stand corrected then, Ron. They didn't need it, but it was certainly there, if they had kept the list going.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/watergate/articles/072874-1.htm


The impeachment inquiry, which began seven months ago, was provoked principally by Watergate but other issues covered by a proposed Article II charging abuse of power cause more concern among some members.

Some Republicans are most concerned about allegations that Mr. Nixon misused such sensitive agencies as the Internal Revenue Service and the Central Intelligence Agency for political purposes.

Others are most concerned about Mr. Nixon's defiance of committee subpoenas, which is now included in Article II as a contempt of Congress count, but may be broken out into a separate article. An attempt may be made to offer a fourth article on tax evasion, but it is not expected to be approved.





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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
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RE: Lois Lerner - 7/12/2014 9:18:25 AM   
mnottertail


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I get the gimmick, Rich. But there is no equivalence here.

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RE: Lois Lerner - 7/12/2014 9:22:43 AM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I get the gimmick, Rich. But there is no equivalence here.



Right. Obama is a Democrat. Completely different sort of thing.

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That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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