RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault...

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NorthernGent -> RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... (8/4/2014 12:28:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrosaDom You have a fundamental misunderstanding of Islam. Sorry, mate, but we have muslims living in this country and in my experience 99.9% are no different to me in that they want to get their heads down and live their lives. I don't recall ever being on the wrong end of violence distributed by any muslim. Let's face it, mate, human beings living on this planet, past and present, have more chance of being attacked by the American and British governments than they do by any muslim, and that my friend is an insurmountable, cold, hard fact.

subrosaDom -> RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... (8/4/2014 12:34:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent quote: ORIGINAL: subrosaDom You have a fundamental misunderstanding of Islam. Sorry, mate, but we have muslims living in this country and in my experience 99.9% are no different to me in that they want to get their heads down and live their lives. I don't recall ever being on the wrong end of violence distributed by any muslim. Let's face it, mate, human beings living on this planet, past and present, have more chance of being attacked by the American and British governments than they do by any muslim, and that my friend is an insurmountable, cold, hard fact. I would suggest that if you are Christian in the Middle East, it is not a cold hard fact at all. There is a Christian genocide (and I'm not religious myself) going on there now. In Syria, in Iraq, previously in Egypt, and certainly also in Africa. I also think the British soldier hacked to death in London might feel differently as would the Jews in France being killed and assaulted by Muslim mobs.

NorthernGent -> RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... (8/4/2014 12:41:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrosaDom quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent quote: ORIGINAL: subrosaDom You have a fundamental misunderstanding of Islam. Sorry, mate, but we have muslims living in this country and in my experience 99.9% are no different to me in that they want to get their heads down and live their lives. I don't recall ever being on the wrong end of violence distributed by any muslim. Let's face it, mate, human beings living on this planet, past and present, have more chance of being attacked by the American and British governments than they do by any muslim, and that my friend is an insurmountable, cold, hard fact. I would suggest that if you are Christian in the Middle East, it is not a cold hard fact at all. There is a Christian genocide (and I'm not religious myself) going on there now. In Syria, in Iraq, previously in Egypt, and certainly also in Africa. I also think the British soldier hacked to death in London might feel differently as would the Jews in France being killed and assaulted by Muslim mobs. The British soldier killed in London was butchered by two lunatics who should have been hung, drawn and quartered. But, as despicable as this act was, these events are so rare it's the first time it's happened. Unlike the British and Americans invading people's countries and displacing millions of people and killing civilians (whether or not it is unintended is irrelevant to my point). If you want to gloss over the actions of your government then that's fine, but it makes this whole discussion a sham because deep down we both know people have died at the hands of our governments when our governments have no business being there.

DomKen -> RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... (8/4/2014 1:31:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer But they are challenged, Bama. They are challenged in the article to which I provided a link to make it easier for you and others. They habitually translate the most extreme comments that they can find - of Palestinians, though not of Israelis. The propaganda message is always the same: 'This extreme comment describes what all those Palestinians think'. You're just making shit up. Go look at MEMRI's site. It makes no such claims. It simply present translations of pieces in the Arab media. It is not their fault that Egyptian TV, for instance, showed a miniseries dramatizing the Protocols. quote: On the other hand, extremist comments by Israeli politicians? 'Pfft, just individual bad apples.' I'd love to see MEMRI's translations of, for instance, the looneytunes bloodthirsty Israeli lawmaker Ayelet Shaked, whose words everyone else translated to be a call for genocide of the Palestinian people. See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsG32fkm6sE strangely that has been all over the media with no help needed. Clearly the Hamas propagandists have been busy.

PeonForHer -> RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... (8/4/2014 2:23:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer But they are challenged, Bama. They are challenged in the article to which I provided a link to make it easier for you and others. They habitually translate the most extreme comments that they can find - of Palestinians, though not of Israelis. The propaganda message is always the same: 'This extreme comment describes what all those Palestinians think'. You're just making shit up. Go look at MEMRI's site. It makes no such claims. It simply present translations of pieces in the Arab media. It is not their fault that Egyptian TV, for instance, showed a miniseries dramatizing the Protocols. That info isn't on the MEMRI website, DK. Who on earth would expect it to be? It's on the website I posted, in an article by a journalist who applies his critical faculties to the MEMRI website. Here it is again: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/aug/12/worlddispatch.brianwhitaker

PeonForHer -> RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... (8/4/2014 2:27:21 PM)
quote: The British soldier killed in London was butchered by two lunatics who should have been hung, drawn and quartered. That's the majority conclusion in the UK about that incident, I think. These were two psychopathic killers who just needed a rationalisation. If you want to get into some good bloodthirsty murdering, there's no doubt plenty in the Koran that could be construed to support it. Just as, no doubt, there is in the Bible.

BamaD -> RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... (8/4/2014 2:41:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent quote: ORIGINAL: subrosaDom quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent quote: ORIGINAL: subrosaDom You have a fundamental misunderstanding of Islam. Sorry, mate, but we have muslims living in this country and in my experience 99.9% are no different to me in that they want to get their heads down and live their lives. I don't recall ever being on the wrong end of violence distributed by any muslim. Let's face it, mate, human beings living on this planet, past and present, have more chance of being attacked by the American and British governments than they do by any muslim, and that my friend is an insurmountable, cold, hard fact. I would suggest that if you are Christian in the Middle East, it is not a cold hard fact at all. There is a Christian genocide (and I'm not religious myself) going on there now. In Syria, in Iraq, previously in Egypt, and certainly also in Africa. I also think the British soldier hacked to death in London might feel differently as would the Jews in France being killed and assaulted by Muslim mobs. The British soldier killed in London was butchered by two lunatics who should have been hung, drawn and quartered. But, as despicable as this act was, these events are so rare it's the first time it's happened. Unlike the British and Americans invading people's countries and displacing millions of people and killing civilians (whether or not it is unintended is irrelevant to my point). If you want to gloss over the actions of your government then that's fine, but it makes this whole discussion a sham because deep down we both know people have died at the hands of our governments when our governments have no business being there. Couldn't help but notice you ignored all the other incidents mentioned.

tweakabelle -> RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... (8/4/2014 3:41:12 PM)
BamaD, I didn't see your response to this challenge in post #537 way back on page 27: " Most definitions of terrorism are something along the lines of 'Terrorism is the use of violence targeting civilians for political purposes'. If we can agree on that definition can you explain to me how the Dahiya doctrine, which the IDF is obviously employing in Gaza now can be any thing other than terrorism? To refresh your memory the Dahiya doctrine is: " [....]asymmetric warfare in an urban setting, in which the army deliberately targets civilian infrastructure, as a means of inducing suffering for the civilian population, thereby establishing deterrence" "The first public announcement of the doctrine was made by General Gadi Eizenkot, commander of the IDF's northern front, in October 2008. He said that what happened in the Dahiya (also transliterated as Dahiyeh and Dahieh) quarter of Beirut in 2006 would, "happen in every village from which shots were fired in the direction of Israel. We will wield disproportionate power against [them] and cause immense damage and destruction. From our perspective, these are military bases. [...] This isn't a suggestion. It's a plan that has already been authorized. [...] Harming the population is the only means of restraining Nasrallah." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahiya_doctrine To me all that sounds and looks like textbook classic terrorism. So can you explain why the IDF shouldn't be regarded as terrorists? " I didn't think it was like you to duck a challenge.

subrosaDom -> RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... (8/4/2014 3:43:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent quote: ORIGINAL: subrosaDom quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent quote: ORIGINAL: subrosaDom You have a fundamental misunderstanding of Islam. Sorry, mate, but we have muslims living in this country and in my experience 99.9% are no different to me in that they want to get their heads down and live their lives. I don't recall ever being on the wrong end of violence distributed by any muslim. Let's face it, mate, human beings living on this planet, past and present, have more chance of being attacked by the American and British governments than they do by any muslim, and that my friend is an insurmountable, cold, hard fact. I would suggest that if you are Christian in the Middle East, it is not a cold hard fact at all. There is a Christian genocide (and I'm not religious myself) going on there now. In Syria, in Iraq, previously in Egypt, and certainly also in Africa. I also think the British soldier hacked to death in London might feel differently as would the Jews in France being killed and assaulted by Muslim mobs. The British soldier killed in London was butchered by two lunatics who should have been hung, drawn and quartered. But, as despicable as this act was, these events are so rare it's the first time it's happened. Unlike the British and Americans invading people's countries and displacing millions of people and killing civilians (whether or not it is unintended is irrelevant to my point). If you want to gloss over the actions of your government then that's fine, but it makes this whole discussion a sham because deep down we both know people have died at the hands of our governments when our governments have no business being there. Couldn't help but notice you ignored all the other incidents mentioned. Theo Van Gogh was murdered by a Taoist, then? Salman Rushdie had a fatwa for his death issued by Tom Cruise for Scientology? Apostate female Muslims face constant death threats because of those damned Hindus? How about the "workplace violence" at Ft. Hood. Obviously, there was no Allahu Akbar! shout; it was really "Jesus Saves!" Seriously, the list is so long, so extensive, that there would be tens of thousands of entries.

subrosaDom -> RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... (8/4/2014 3:47:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer But they are challenged, Bama. They are challenged in the article to which I provided a link to make it easier for you and others. They habitually translate the most extreme comments that they can find - of Palestinians, though not of Israelis. The propaganda message is always the same: 'This extreme comment describes what all those Palestinians think'. You're just making shit up. Go look at MEMRI's site. It makes no such claims. It simply present translations of pieces in the Arab media. It is not their fault that Egyptian TV, for instance, showed a miniseries dramatizing the Protocols. That info isn't on the MEMRI website, DK. Who on earth would expect it to be? It's on the website I posted, in an article by a journalist who applies his critical faculties to the MEMRI website. Here it is again: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/aug/12/worlddispatch.brianwhitaker It's so much easier to attack the messenger than the author. Typical "jihad" is the struggle for self-evolution crap. Jihad is armed struggle to wage war against the infidels. Taqiyya is permitted lying (dissimulation) against anyone opposing the Muslim agenda. Taqiyya is so instrumental to Muslim thought that it is like the Germans and schadenfreude.

Politesub53 -> RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... (8/4/2014 3:47:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Anti Semitic marches aren't legal in Germany. So the police must have turned a blind eye toward it. It was a protest against Israeli policy and they are legal. The fact that a few made anti-semitic chants doesnt make the prootest march illegal. The display of the swastika is illegal in Germany period. You can look that up. Now apparently the protest was in Paris but if it had been in Germany it would have been a crime period. Got to love your logic Ken......... In Germany displaying a swastika is illegal, but the demo was in Paris.

subrosaDom -> RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... (8/4/2014 3:49:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: The British soldier killed in London was butchered by two lunatics who should have been hung, drawn and quartered. That's the majority conclusion in the UK about that incident, I think. These were two psychopathic killers who just needed a rationalisation. If you want to get into some good bloodthirsty murdering, there's no doubt plenty in the Koran that could be construed to support it. Just as, no doubt, there is in the Bible. And we know that having a majority of appeasing, whimpering, ball-less (ovary-less so as not to be discriminatory) people makes it true? Truth isn't determined by majority vote. Two psychopathic killers would have killed a random person, not a military one; they wouldn't have shouted Muslim shibboleths as they killed; they wouldn't have spent years studying the Q'uran; etc. I actually know quite a lot academically about psychopathy and they did not fit the definition at all, DSM or otherwise.

PeonForHer -> RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... (8/4/2014 4:02:30 PM)
quote: It's so much easier to attack the messenger than the author. Indeed it is, SubrosaDom - which makes me wonder why you want to attack the messenger, myself, rather than the author of the article to which I've linked. Here it is, for a third time: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/aug/12/worlddispatch.brianwhitaker You will get there a flavour of how MEMRI operates. Apart from noting that MEMRI has tried to hide certain information about itself (like the fact that its website is registered to an ex-Israeli Intelligence officer), it also makes out that it'll translate neutrally. But it does not. It'll translate hate speeches by Muslims, but not by Israelis. quote: Typical "jihad" is the struggle for self-evolution crap. Jihad is armed struggle to wage war against the infidels. Taqiyya is permitted lying (dissimulation) against anyone opposing the Muslim agenda. Taqiyya is so instrumental to Muslim thought that it is like the Germans and schadenfreude. The huge hole in this logic is that Muslims can, and do, live in very large numbers amongst those of other religions - yet seem to live without lying, much less waging war. The 'Clash of Civilisations' thesis was in fashion, once, but no longer. It doesn't explain adequately why wars happen, nor does it explain why wars don't happen.

BitYakin -> RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... (8/4/2014 4:10:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer Good point, Sanity. The Gazans probably exploded the entire suburb themselves. After all, everyone knows they have far more houses than they need in Gaza and all that concrete just spoils everyone's view. what he is saying is, most likely what's NOT SHOWN in any video is the rockets that came FROM that area just before IDF returned fire as for it being edited or needing PROOF of it, unless you have camera's pointed at EVERY SUBURB 24/7 the likelihood of you catching the first salvo on tape is slim to none. now since the IDF knew when it planned to counter attack it easy to video... if the pali's were SMART, they'd USE THIS, set up cameras, launch an attack from a school or mosque or hospital then video the COUNTER FIRE and claim SEEEEEE they do THIS here's a question, where did this VIDEO that was posted ORIGINATE? was it a SET UP like I just described? AHHH the power of photo shop and EDITING!!! not sure who it was that opened the door to PHOTO SHOPPING, but from here on out ALL VIDEO EVIDENCE is subject to being claimed as FAKE or STAGED see that PROPAGANDA door SWINGS BOTH WAYS!

PeonForHer -> RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... (8/4/2014 4:20:20 PM)
quote: And we know that having a majority of appeasing, whimpering, ball-less (ovary-less so as not to be discriminatory) people makes it true? Truth isn't determined by majority vote. Two psychopathic killers would have killed a random person, not a military one; they wouldn't have shouted Muslim shibboleths as they killed; they wouldn't have spent years studying the Q'uran; etc. I actually know quite a lot academically about psychopathy and they did not fit the definition at all, DSM or otherwise. Well, all I can say is that your knowledge of psychopathy seems to be at variance with the experts who dealt with the matter here, subrosaDom. Myself, I've heard of killers who've studied the Bible in order to build up a rationalisation for their murdering. There are many notorious cases. So, why is this case different? And when it comes to 'appeasing killers' - and to wrench this back to the subject at hand - one of the most common charges of 'appeasement of killers' currently here seems to be aimed at our prime minister, David Cameron - for appeasing the Israeli government, not the Palestinians. I mean, when we get down to it, this is beginning to sound like, 'Aha! Your view works in practice, but does it work in theory?' The IDF is killing very large numbers of people. The Gazans are not. Does it matter if the Israeli State makes warm and fluffy noises, while the Gazans make blood-curdling noises, if it is in fact the former who are doing the butchering of large numbers of civilians, while the latter are not?

PeonForHer -> RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... (8/4/2014 4:23:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BitYakin quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer Good point, Sanity. The Gazans probably exploded the entire suburb themselves. After all, everyone knows they have far more houses than they need in Gaza and all that concrete just spoils everyone's view. what he is saying is, most likely what's NOT SHOWN in any video is the rockets that came FROM that area just before IDF returned fire as for it being edited or needing PROOF of it, unless you have camera's pointed at EVERY SUBURB 24/7 the likelihood of you catching the first salvo on tape is slim to none. now since the IDF knew when it planned to counter attack it easy to video... if the pali's were SMART, they'd USE THIS, set up cameras, launch an attack from a school or mosque or hospital then video the COUNTER FIRE and claim SEEEEEE they do THIS here's a question, where did this VIDEO that was posted ORIGINATE? was it a SET UP like I just described? AHHH the power of photo shop and EDITING!!! not sure who it was that opened the door to PHOTO SHOPPING, but from here on out ALL VIDEO EVIDENCE is subject to being claimed as FAKE or STAGED see that PROPAGANDA door SWINGS BOTH WAYS! Tweakabelle has posted the relevant links, BitYakin. If you want to examine the whole thing, unedited, go and do so. What's the point in arguing hypotheticals if the evidence is to be had?

BitYakin -> RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... (8/4/2014 4:24:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer But they are challenged, Bama. They are challenged in the article to which I provided a link to make it easier for you and others. They habitually translate the most extreme comments that they can find - of Palestinians, though not of Israelis. The propaganda message is always the same: 'This extreme comment describes what all those Palestinians think'. You're just making shit up. Go look at MEMRI's site. It makes no such claims. It simply present translations of pieces in the Arab media. It is not their fault that Egyptian TV, for instance, showed a miniseries dramatizing the Protocols. That info isn't on the MEMRI website, DK. Who on earth would expect it to be? It's on the website I posted, in an article by a journalist who applies his critical faculties to the MEMRI website. Here it is again: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/aug/12/worlddispatch.brianwhitaker I think there is a misunderstanding here, I think the challenge he refered to was, were the quotes translated CORRECTLY, not whether they mined the worst possible quotes to translate.... it was claimed in one post the translation were INCORRECTLY translated, and the response was well if its incorrect why doesn't someone CORRECT THEM sooooo you admit the translations are CORRECT but challenge the MOTIVE for selecting the particular quotes to translate? my answer to that is, "DOG BITES MAN" is NEWS, "dog plays fetch" is NOT NEWS. in other words why translate the BORING CRAP?

subrosaDom -> RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... (8/4/2014 4:27:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: It's so much easier to attack the messenger than the author. Indeed it is, SubrosaDom - which makes me wonder why you want to attack the messenger, myself, rather than the author of the article to which I've linked. Here it is, for a third time: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/aug/12/worlddispatch.brianwhitaker You will get there a flavour of how MEMRI operates. Apart from noting that MEMRI has tried to hide certain information about itself (like the fact that its website is registered to an ex-Israeli Intelligence officer), it also makes out that it'll translate neutrally. But it does not. It'll translate hate speeches by Muslims, but not by Israelis. quote: Typical "jihad" is the struggle for self-evolution crap. Jihad is armed struggle to wage war against the infidels. Taqiyya is permitted lying (dissimulation) against anyone opposing the Muslim agenda. Taqiyya is so instrumental to Muslim thought that it is like the Germans and schadenfreude. The huge hole in this logic is that Muslims can, and do, live in very large amongst those of other religions - yet seem to live without lying, much less waging war. The 'Clash of Civilisations' thesis was in fashion, once, but no longer. It doesn't explain adequately why wars happen, nor does it explain why wars don't happen. 1) Tu quoque. Red herring, too. The fact that it's registered to an ex-Israeli IntOfc doesn't mean it's untrue. In fact, registration doesn't mean editorial control nor does it mean denial of facts. Failure to translate hate speeches by Israelis (whoever it is that makes them) does not minimize the superfluity of hate speeches by Muslims, ones in power and with authority. A 4th-level functionary is not the same as an Abbas or a Netanyahu, for that matter. 2) Historically, Muslims have sought conquest. There have been periods of retreat or passivity, almost all followed by war. Retreat occurs only in the face of defeat. Ask the Christians how pacifically they are coexisting with Muslims today. Or the Hindus. Or the Buddhists. Whether the CoC is in fashion today is irrelevant; the question is whether Islamist philosophy and eschatology is fundamentally at antithetical to Western Civ. The answer is "yes." Not all wars are explained by Islam, of course, but that does not mean that no wars are caused by Islam. In fact, many wars and most conflicts today are in fact caused by Islam, whether in democratic or in repressive (Russian, Chinese) societies. When your underlying belief is to strive for death, and when you have a religion whose name actually means "submission [to Allah's will]," what else could one expect. Finally my criticisms pertain to the statements made, not to you personally, except insofar as your words represent a position you've taken. I think that's pretty clear.

PeonForHer -> RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... (8/4/2014 4:32:42 PM)
quote: I think there is a misunderstanding here, I think the challenge he refered to was, were the quotes translated CORRECTLY, not whether they mined the worst possible quotes to translate.... it was claimed in one post the translation were INCORRECTLY translated, and the response was well if its incorrect why doesn't someone CORRECT THEM sooooo you admit the translations are CORRECT but challenge the MOTIVE for selecting the particular quotes to translate? my answer to that is, "DOG BITES MAN" is NEWS, "dog plays fetch" is NOT NEWS. in other words why translate the BORING CRAP? Straw man. It would be royally stupid to mistranslate, because there are enough translators around to correct such mistranslations. This is not MEMRI's strength. It's strength, like that of most propagandist outfits is, firstly, to present itself as neutral when it is far from that. Secondly, it focuses information: it presents translations of the headbanging Muslims, but not the headbanging Israelis. Thirdly, it makes it easy for journalists - and journalists can be lazy. It contacts them with its info; it doesn't wait to be contacted by journalists.

subrosaDom -> RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... (8/4/2014 4:34:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: And we know that having a majority of appeasing, whimpering, ball-less (ovary-less so as not to be discriminatory) people makes it true? Truth isn't determined by majority vote. Two psychopathic killers would have killed a random person, not a military one; they wouldn't have shouted Muslim shibboleths as they killed; they wouldn't have spent years studying the Q'uran; etc. I actually know quite a lot academically about psychopathy and they did not fit the definition at all, DSM or otherwise. Well, all I can say is that your knowledge of psychopathy seems to be at variance with the experts who dealt with the matter here, subrosaDom. Myself, I've heard of killers who've studied the Bible in order to build up a rationalisation for their murdering. There are many notorious cases. So, why is this case different? And when it comes to 'appeasing killers' - and to wrench this back to the subject at hand - one of the most common charges of 'appeasement of killers' currently here seems to be aimed at our prime minister, David Cameron - for appeasing the Israeli government, not the Palestinians. I mean, when we get down to it, this is beginning to sound like, 'Aha! Your view works in practice, but does it work in theory?' The IDF is killing very large numbers of people. The Gazans are not. Does it matter if the Israeli State makes warm and fluffy noises, while the Gazans make blood-curdling noises, if it is in fact the former who are doing the butchering of large numbers of civilians, while the latter are not? Yes. Random killers have studied the Bible to find rationalizations for killing. Absolutely true. They have not organized into cells, jihad squads, as it were, or flown planes into buildings. Any individual psychopath can find any basis whatsoever -- the blood moon of the prior night, for example. All of them are outliers. Only Muslims consistently and not only as individuals but as entire congregrations and states act psychopathically. Not a lot of non-Muslim suicide bombers are there? There are self-immolating Tibetan monks, sure, but they're not immolating others. The IDF is killing large numbers of people just as the Allies did in WWII. Since Hamas hides its arsenals among its people, in hospitals, and in schools, then who is responsible for such violations of international law? Or is the IDF supposed to sit back and say, well, we can't attack Hamas because they violated int'l law, so we'll let their suicide squads come up out of the ground in the middle of schools in order to kill our children? The entire moral responsibility lies with Hamas. Now, can there be misguided missiles and strikes? Sure. It happens in war. War is hell. There is a world of difference between the deliberate targeting of innocent civilians not in harm's way (the Hamas way) and the targeting of arsenals and terroristic weapons and terrorists themselves so pusillanimous that they hide amongst their own wives and children so as to stir up sympathies among the hate Israeli crowd. You have asserted a moral equivalence between Hamas and the IDF, when there is no more more equivalence between them than between the Axis and the Allies.

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