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RE: Thank God he didn't have a gun - 8/11/2014 2:48:08 PM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
I expressed how much his opinion means to me.

Actually, you said -
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Obama being against me is just more proof that I am right

That's not an opinion.... that's a statement.

Now back it up with proof.


A It is my opinion that he will always take the wrong position on this issuw.
B You consider him a good source that is an opinion, now prove it.

A) Your opinion = indisputable fact. Got it!!
B) Where did I claim he was a 'good source'. Huh?? More bullshit from you. Prove where I said it.

You're quick on dodging and side-swiping.
Not so good at actually proving your case or answering the question.
Quit back-peddling and prove your statement otherwise we'll all assume it's asswipe bullshit again.


_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Thank God he didn't have a gun - 8/11/2014 2:49:33 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Being 'anti-gun' and wanting much stricter gun laws doesn't make him 'unconstitutional' at all.

If you understood the Constitution at all you would know that far from being a reasonable compromise gun bans are blatantly unconstitutional.
Taxing guns and ammo till only the rich can afford them is an unconstitutional infringement. He can be anti gun without violating the Constitution (1st amendment) but he can't support the kinds of things I mentioned (in his role as a public official) without violating it. Again I don't expect you to understand.

You're dodging and weaving again.... as usual.

Can you actually back up your statement or are you bullshitting again??



Were you capable of logical thought you would see that I have told you why I think he is wrong, he favors gun bans, he favors jacking up taxes on firearms to the point that only the rich can afford them thus depriving the middle class and poor of their RIGHTS he is always on the wrong side on this issue. What in the world makes him someone you would consider an authority. Your saying I have not answered doesn't make it true it just means I haven't given you the answer you want.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Thank God he didn't have a gun - 8/11/2014 2:57:45 PM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Were you capable of logical thought you would see that I have told you why I think he is wrong, he favors gun bans, he favors jacking up taxes on firearms to the point that only the rich can afford them thus depriving the middle class and poor of their RIGHTS he is always on the wrong side on this issue. What in the world makes him someone you would consider an authority. Your saying I have not answered doesn't make it true it just means I haven't given you the answer you want.

Nope. You haven't answered the question at all - you dodged it completely.

You categorically stated -
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Obama being against me is just more proof that I am right

Now provide the proof that you are right given OBama's statement of: "'only in America' do you get sooo many gun deaths and shootings compared to any other first-world countries".


Stop dodging the question..... Show me proof that you are right.
I've given you links to prove my part. Now prove yours.


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George Orwell, 1903-1950


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Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Thank God he didn't have a gun - 8/11/2014 3:15:14 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Were you capable of logical thought you would see that I have told you why I think he is wrong, he favors gun bans, he favors jacking up taxes on firearms to the point that only the rich can afford them thus depriving the middle class and poor of their RIGHTS he is always on the wrong side on this issue. What in the world makes him someone you would consider an authority. Your saying I have not answered doesn't make it true it just means I haven't given you the answer you want.

Nope. You haven't answered the question at all - you dodged it completely.

You categorically stated -
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Obama being against me is just more proof that I am right

Now provide the proof that you are right given OBama's statement of: "'only in America' do you get sooo many gun deaths and shootings compared to any other first-world countries".


Stop dodging the question..... Show me proof that you are right.
I've given you links to prove my part. Now prove yours.


Typical leftist tactic of taking something out of context as we also have more killings by other means.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Thank God he didn't have a gun - 8/11/2014 3:17:26 PM   
eulero83


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

Lucylastic your point would be a god one if the life of someone else's child was worth more than your own wallet.

I think the point she was making is that the US, with its liberal gun ownership/laws, has proven to be a death bed for more civilians than anywhere else in the 'civilized' western world.

I didn't realize that the US was responsible for 75% of child deaths in the developed world or that child gun-deaths alone exceeded the whole number of US deaths from the Afghan war (since 2001) by a factor 3!!

That is some staggering stats.
Which proves that where there is proper strict nationwide gun controls, gun-deaths are far lower per capita.
And as Bama admitted himself, the US also have a greater number of blunt-instrument deaths than anywhere else too.




I was sarcastic, her was a very good point, more guns means more mortal incidents, but reading some people's it seems there is no toll in lives that is too much compared to the possibilility to defend property.

By the way BamaD I'm still waiting the list of draconian italian laws that makes where I live a police state.

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Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Thank God he didn't have a gun - 8/11/2014 3:21:05 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


Now provide the proof that you are right given OBama's statement of: "'only in America' do you get sooo many gun deaths and shootings compared to any other first-world countries".




Look, I'm no genius with maths and probabilities but I'm fairly confident in the assertion that it's hardly surprising considering more Americans own guns than people of other 'first world countries'.

I'm living proof that you can enter and exit the US without getting shot, or even seeing a gun, although I did take a wrong turn in New Orleans at 4 in the morning and it was like the land that time forgot. You wouldn't wanna get caught out down there at that time of night.


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Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Thank God he didn't have a gun - 8/11/2014 3:26:24 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

Lucylastic your point would be a god one if the life of someone else's child was worth more than your own wallet.

I think the point she was making is that the US, with its liberal gun ownership/laws, has proven to be a death bed for more civilians than anywhere else in the 'civilized' western world.

I didn't realize that the US was responsible for 75% of child deaths in the developed world or that child gun-deaths alone exceeded the whole number of US deaths from the Afghan war (since 2001) by a factor 3!!

That is some staggering stats.
Which proves that where there is proper strict nationwide gun controls, gun-deaths are far lower per capita.
And as Bama admitted himself, the US also have a greater number of blunt-instrument deaths than anywhere else too.




I was sarcastic, her was a very good point, more guns means more mortal incidents, but reading some people's it seems there is no toll in lives that is too much compared to the possibilility to defend property.

By the way BamaD I'm still waiting the list of draconian italian laws that makes where I live a police state.

When they take your property they take far more. While I don't expect it to sink in when they take your property they take a piece of your life. I am not willing to kill to protect my things but I am will to kill because they think my things is worth killing me for. Don't give me any crap about how muggers and home invaders are nice people who won't hurt me if I don't fight back, it is how far they will to go if I don't just hand my stuff over, and maybe even if I do.

You wouldn't consider any of your laws and I didn't say you had a police state. Suffice it to say any of the laws you in your all knowing wisdom tell us primitive Americans we should have.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Thank God he didn't have a gun - 8/11/2014 3:34:16 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


Now provide the proof that you are right given OBama's statement of: "'only in America' do you get sooo many gun deaths and shootings compared to any other first-world countries".




Look, I'm no genius with maths and probabilities but I'm fairly confident in the assertion that it's hardly surprising considering more Americans own guns than people of other 'first world countries'.

I'm living proof that you can enter and exit the US without getting shot, or even seeing a gun, although I did take a wrong turn in New Orleans at 4 in the morning and it was like the land that time forgot. You wouldn't wanna get caught out down there at that time of night.



You came very close, there, NG, to saying that guns aren't lovely and delicious, as well as being essential to real and true modern life. You should remember that the greatest freedoms are ensured by the ownership of guns, as every admired philosopher of the truly civilised and free life, from Plato onwards, has pointed out. Just a mild warning.

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 8/11/2014 4:01:24 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Thank God he didn't have a gun - 8/11/2014 3:37:55 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


Now provide the proof that you are right given OBama's statement of: "'only in America' do you get sooo many gun deaths and shootings compared to any other first-world countries".




Look, I'm no genius with maths and probabilities but I'm fairly confident in the assertion that it's hardly surprising considering more Americans own guns than people of other 'first world countries'.

I'm living proof that you can enter and exit the US without getting shot, or even seeing a gun, although I did take a wrong turn in New Orleans at 4 in the morning and it was like the land that time forgot. You wouldn't wanna get caught out down there at that time of night.



You came very close, there, NG, to saying that guns aren't lovely and delicious, as well as being essential to real and true modern life. You should remember that the greatest freedoms are ensured by the ownership of guns, as every admired philosopher of the truly civilised and free life, from Plato onwards has pointed out. Just a mild warning.

At last you have seen the light.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Thank God he didn't have a gun - 8/11/2014 3:41:53 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		Injuries and deaths due to firearms in the home.
Kellermann AL1, Somes G, Rivara FP, Lee RK, Banton JG.
Author information
Abstract
OBJECTIVE:
Determine the relative frequency with which guns in the home are used to injure or kill in self-defense, compared with the number of times these weapons are involved in an unintentional injury, suicide attempt, or criminal assault or homicide.
METHODS:
We reviewed the police, medical examiner, emergency medical service, emergency department, and hospital records of all fatal and nonfatal shootings in three U.S. cities: Memphis, Tennessee; Seattle, Washington; and Galveston, Texas.
RESULTS:
During the study interval (12 months in Memphis, 18 months in Seattle, and Galveston) 626 shootings occurred in or around a residence. This total included 54 unintentional shootings, 118 attempted or completed suicides, and 438 assaults/homicides. Thirteen shootings were legally justifiable or an act of self-defense, including three that involved law enforcement officers acting in the line of duty. For every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides.
CONCLUSIONS:
Guns kept in homes are more likely to be involved in a fatal or nonfatal accidental shooting, criminal assault, or suicide attempt than to be used to injure or kill in self-defense.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9715182


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Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Thank God he didn't have a gun - 8/11/2014 3:44:41 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


Now provide the proof that you are right given OBama's statement of: "'only in America' do you get sooo many gun deaths and shootings compared to any other first-world countries".




Look, I'm no genius with maths and probabilities but I'm fairly confident in the assertion that it's hardly surprising considering more Americans own guns than people of other 'first world countries'.

I'm living proof that you can enter and exit the US without getting shot, or even seeing a gun, although I did take a wrong turn in New Orleans at 4 in the morning and it was like the land that time forgot. You wouldn't wanna get caught out down there at that time of night.



You came very close, there, NG, to saying that guns aren't lovely and delicious, as well as being essential to real and true modern life. You should remember that the greatest freedoms are ensured by the ownership of guns, as every admired philosopher of the truly civilised and free life, from Plato onwards has pointed out. Just a mild warning.


I dunno. If you start with the premise power corrupts, and governments are in a position of power, then it's not so outlandish to think it might be an idea to have some form of protection. It probably worked better in the 18th century when governments used force, but these days they don't need to hunt you down with a tank to get they want. Just look at the Iraq thread and Tony Blair. Just about everyone knew it was lies and there was pretty much an audible groan around the country of "not this bollocks again". It seems that every ten minutes some country pops up that hates everything we stand for and if we don't democratise them we're all gonna die. They'll have to start inventing hitherto unknown countries soon because must have been through them all now. The point being that they just go ahead an do these things anyway despite opposition, with some sleight-of-hand ruse that fools no one but themselves while boring us into submission.


_____________________________

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Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Thank God he didn't have a gun - 8/11/2014 3:46:39 PM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
I am not willing to kill to protect my things but I am will to kill because they think my things is worth killing me for.

And there is the fundamental and essential difference between the US and everywhere else.
In the US, the burglars and thieves come packing and are very likely to kill you.
Why?? Because it's easy and guns are prolific.

Everywhere else, those thieves are not packing and are generally unarmed so your need to be armed to protect yourself just isn't necessary.
Some might carry a knife, but that isn't usual.


This is also why everywhere else, gun deaths are very much lower than in the US.
Carrying guns is quite common in the US; hence gun deaths are a whole order of magnitude higher than anywhere else.


And, those Americans who support the carrying of guns are just perpetuating those gun deaths.


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Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Thank God he didn't have a gun - 8/11/2014 3:59:00 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
I am not willing to kill to protect my things but I am will to kill because they think my things is worth killing me for.

And there is the fundamental and essential difference between the US and everywhere else.
In the US, the burglars and thieves come packing and are very likely to kill you.
Why?? Because it's easy and guns are prolific.

Everywhere else, those thieves are not packing and are generally unarmed so your need to be armed to protect yourself just isn't necessary.
Some might carry a knife, but that isn't usual.


This is also why everywhere else, gun deaths are very much lower than in the US.
Carrying guns is quite common in the US; hence gun deaths are a whole order of magnitude higher than anywhere else.


And, those Americans who support the carrying of guns are just perpetuating those gun deaths.


You are so wrong I don't know where to begin. Even that lying Bloomberg group admits that guns are used to stop crime as often as they are used to commit them, everyone else has the ratio much better. Don't know what idiot you've been talking to that says bad guys don't carry knives that is not only wrong but stupid. I have avoided assault 4 times because I had a firearm so I am not perpetuating any such thing. I resent you calling me an accomplice to murder cause if your to stupid to realize it that is what you just did.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Thank God he didn't have a gun - 8/11/2014 4:01:33 PM   
Marc2b


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quote:

No my point is evil will find away so don't take away my ability to defend myself.


I live in New York which has some of the strictest gun laws in the nation and nobody has (or even tried) to take my guns. There is a difference between gun control and gun confiscation. Gun control is not a cure-all (personally I think it needs to be combined with some crazy person control), but it doesn't have to be. The perfect is the enemy of the good.

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Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Thank God he didn't have a gun - 8/11/2014 4:10:45 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

No my point is evil will find away so don't take away my ability to defend myself.


I live in New York which has some of the strictest gun laws in the nation and nobody has (or even tried) to take my guns. There is a difference between gun control and gun confiscation. Gun control is not a cure-all (personally I think it needs to be combined with some crazy person control), but it doesn't have to be. The perfect is the enemy of the good.

You live in New York.
You don't remember when New York just wanted to register "assault weapons" Which at the the press conference included at least one bolt action rifle.
A year later they were required to turn them in in spite of all the promises to the contrary.
They may not have taken your guns but that doesn't mean they didn't confiscate some. But when they came for the Freemasons you weren't a Freemason so you didn't care.
You do realize that your post has little to do with mine. I didn't say they had but that many want to. Not having taken yours yet doesn't mean they don't want to.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Marc2b)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Thank God he didn't have a gun - 8/11/2014 4:14:22 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

I dunno. If you start with the premise power corrupts, and governments are in a position of power, then it's not so outlandish to think it might be an idea to have some form of protection.



Guns don't mean a damned thing when it comes to defence against 'the almighty State', though, NG. And that's truest of all, I'd say, in the USA. Although, I'm eagerly waiting to hear from the gun fans here just how well the Palestinians' guns (though rockets too, mind you) have helped them thwart the oppressive Israeli State, with its American-supplied *modern day* arms. By crackey, those Gazans are using their arms to ensure a happy, comfy and entirely liberated life against their would-be Israeli tyrants, aren't they? Who wouldn't want to be living in Gaza right now?

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Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Thank God he didn't have a gun - 8/11/2014 4:21:57 PM   
Marc2b


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Joined: 8/7/2006
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quote:

Look, I'm no genius with maths and probabilities but I'm fairly confident in the assertion that it's hardly surprising considering more Americans own guns than people of other 'first world countries'.

I'm living proof that you can enter and exit the US without getting shot, or even seeing a gun, although I did take a wrong turn in New Orleans at 4 in the morning and it was like the land that time forgot. You wouldn't wanna get caught out down there at that time of night.


Whoa, dude! I didn't know you were back. It's good to see you again!

Please tell more people about your gun free experiences in America. While we may have higher violence rates than the rest of the (so called) civilized world (which can mostly be ascribed to orneriness as a national trait) it still kind of irks me that many non-Americans seem to think that we spend our time ducking our heads and returning fire as we go about our daily business. I'm 48 years old and I have NEVER been threatened by a gun and have never even seen one fired in anger. I think a lot of people would be surprised at just how peaceful our lives are over here.

The most violent thing that ever did happen to me was when a would be mugger pulled a knife on me but he was drunk and stupid and I was already in a pissy mood so all he got out of it was a couple of broken fingers (I, on the other hand, scored a new knife ).

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Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Thank God he didn't have a gun - 8/11/2014 4:51:13 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

Look, I'm no genius with maths and probabilities but I'm fairly confident in the assertion that it's hardly surprising considering more Americans own guns than people of other 'first world countries'.

I'm living proof that you can enter and exit the US without getting shot, or even seeing a gun, although I did take a wrong turn in New Orleans at 4 in the morning and it was like the land that time forgot. You wouldn't wanna get caught out down there at that time of night.


Whoa, dude! I didn't know you were back. It's good to see you again!

Please tell more people about your gun free experiences in America. While we may have higher violence rates than the rest of the (so called) civilized world (which can mostly be ascribed to orneriness as a national trait) it still kind of irks me that many non-Americans seem to think that we spend our time ducking our heads and returning fire as we go about our daily business. I'm 48 years old and I have NEVER been threatened by a gun and have never even seen one fired in anger. I think a lot of people would be surprised at just how peaceful our lives are over here.

The most violent thing that ever did happen to me was when a would be mugger pulled a knife on me but he was drunk and stupid and I was already in a pissy mood so all he got out of it was a couple of broken fingers (I, on the other hand, scored a new knife ).

Good for you. My last one ended up with my telling him to get off my property and to never come back. Upon realizing that I had the means to back it up he ran as fast as he could with his hands in the air screaming "I didn't mean no harm" it would have been nice if he had though of that before he can after me.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Marc2b)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Thank God he didn't have a gun - 8/11/2014 4:57:22 PM   
quizzicalkitten


Posts: 312
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: quizzicalkitten

It kinda does since in reality any restriction on guns goes against the right to bear arms....

And you can still have that right to bear arms.
But do you actually HAVE to bear them.... in public??

We can have guns too. That would fit your constitution.
What we can't do is have them in public or be able to shoot others willy-nilly and claim a feeble 'self defense' plea.
In most civilized countries, if you shoot someone, it's called murder or manslaughter; not self defense.


..... Yes, I do have the right, and guess what, I choose to use that right, just like I choose to use the other inalienable rights given to me from the founding of my lovely nation....

You dont have a gun law that fits our constitution, as the intent of the law is to be able to protect oneself against their government in case decided to be like the countries that we fled from, because if there is no ability for the people to rebel when a redress of the government failing them and conditions become intolerable, we'd still be speaking British, and have a really goofy looking flag...

I choose to carry because when an asshole tries to get into my pants with out my consent, I want a way to defend myself as I am physically weaker then a male counterpart.

IF someone breaks into my home and threatens my family I want the ability to defend off that attacker....

Just because you choose to not do so, doesnt mean MY rights should be taken away

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Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Thank God he didn't have a gun - 8/11/2014 5:01:18 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		sweet jeebus, I come down tto the US three or four times a year,
My first time down was a month after 9/11
Im soon coming down on my 32nd trip.
I came down while the DC sniper was around, and OMG I even went on the highways that he shot people from.
I have five different groups of friends who carry, concealed, and otherwise, I have a friend who owns a range and shop, ANother friend in Missouri has them in his house on racks, and heaven help me Ive even used one....
so...Im sorry to bursts bubbles *prik* its got naff all to do with the perceptions of living in a nightmare day after day.

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Profile   Post #: 100
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