RE: Rioting is the answer (Full Version)

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kdsub -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/14/2014 8:27:51 PM)

I guess they figure if they are making protesters clear the area they should make everyone clear the area.... reporters too.

Butch




kdsub -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/14/2014 8:30:40 PM)

quote:

Lmfao.......... If you think riots never make anything better, wtf do you think a revolution is ?


Hmmmm I wonder if it is possible for honorable people to have a revolution... without looting? I think so... how about you?

Butch




Marini -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/14/2014 8:32:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

--an 18-year-old black student from Ferguson, Mo., who was a few days from heading off to college, was shot by a police officer on Saturday. He was unarmed.

--St. Louis has long been one of the nation’s most segregated metropolitan areas, and there remains a high wall between black residents — who overwhelmingly have lower incomes — and the white power structure that dominates City Councils and police departments like the ones in Ferguson.

--Until the late 1940s, blacks weren’t allowed to live in most suburban St. Louis County towns, kept out by restrictive covenants that the Supreme Court prohibited in 1948.

--As whites began to flee the city for the county in the 1950s and ’60s, they used exclusionary zoning tactics — including large, single-family lot requirements that prohibited apartment buildings — to prevent blacks from moving in. Within the city, poverty and unrest grew.

--In 1980, the town was 85 percent white and 14 percent black; by 2010, it was 29 percent white and 69 percent black. But blacks did not gain political power as their numbers grew.

--The mayor and the police chief are white, as are five of the six City Council members. The school board consists of six white members and one Hispanic.

--black residents, lacking the wealth to buy property, move from apartment to apartment and have not put down political roots



[sm=goodpost.gif]
If you notice, I RARELY post on any threads that are racially charged/or have racial implications.

I am a Black woman, but I learned a long, long time ago, many people on here who are NOT Black "no more about being Black" than I do, so why bother?

Unless you are Black you will never fully understand many situations.
I am not making any excuses for the rioting, I am saying many people who are not Black can't know, will never know, and don't have a "clue".
Great post cloudboy


Almost every news source is reporting over and over that there has been a lot of racial tension in this city for years.

Racial tension not new in St. Louis suburb




kdsub -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/14/2014 8:34:16 PM)

quote:

The idea here is that the black voters continue to be politically disenfranchised despite being in the majority of the population. The population is not protesting in a vacuum. Hopefully they will now organize and make some changes.


There is only ONE way this could happen... they do NOT vote.. their own damn fault no one else's... the above is crap logic. Those that vote elect their representatives... if you don't vote have no valid reason to complain.

Butch




Marini -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/14/2014 8:45:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

The idea here is that the black voters continue to be politically disenfranchised despite being in the majority of the population. The population is not protesting in a vacuum. Hopefully they will now organize and make some changes.


There is only ONE way this could happen... they do NOT vote.. their own damn fault no one else's... the above is crap logic. Those that vote elect their representatives... if you don't vote have no valid reason to complain.

Butch


I agree, it appears many Black people did not vote.
There are some serious issues in that town, all across the board.




kdsub -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/14/2014 8:57:35 PM)

I am sorry Marini... what is right and what is wrong should have no skin color qualification. Looting is ALWAYS wrong and NEVER justified in a civilized society.

Why when someone says an action by a group of people is wrong they must always be accused of being racists... or just don't understand this group of people or that group? When anarchist protest with looting and destruction at economic conventions... they are wrong too..and mostly they are white... looting is wrong if you are yellow...red... black...brown... white... purple...or green dammit....wrong wrong wrong wrong... skin color is no excuse for looting.

Many black people in Ferguson, in interviews by local new organisations... that I can't understand because I am white I guess, say the looting is wrong and want the protests to continue but the looting and violence to stop. They even say they are ashamed of the looting. I suppose that makes them uncle tom's and they don't understand their own Black people...Will I understand them just fine and believe they are the honorable people demanding change and it is them that will make it come about ...not the damn looters... the punks.

Butch




BamaD -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/14/2014 9:09:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I am sorry Marini... what is right and what is wrong should have no skin color qualification. Looting is ALWAYS wrong and NEVER justified in a civilized society.

Why when someone says an action by a group of people is wrong they must always be accused of being racists... or just don't understand this group of people or that group? When anarchist protest with looting and destruction at economic conventions... they are wrong too..and mostly they are white... looting is wrong if you are yellow...red... black...brown... white... purple...or green dammit....wrong wrong wrong wrong... skin color is no excuse for looting.

Many black people in Ferguson, in interviews by local new organisations... that I can't understand because I am white I guess, say the looting is wrong and want the protests to continue but the looting and violence to stop. They even say they are ashamed of the looting. I suppose that makes them uncle tom's and they don't understand their own Black people...Will I understand them just fine and believe they are the honorable people demanding change and it is them that will make it come about ...not the damn looters... the punks.

Butch

Because it is an easy way to dismiss anyone who disagrees with you.
How racist is it to claim that blacks are just inclined to loot and you can't deprive them of that natural inclination?




kdsub -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/14/2014 9:09:51 PM)

If you listen to the interviews of the people of Ferguson there were no problems at all... there were no serious problems it is a great place to live in a mixed population.

But

This particular incident was so grievous that it NEEDED to be addressed immediately. It seems, by the news stories, most of the looters arrested were not even from Ferguson. Yet the orderly protesters are from Ferguson.

The US and international news are making the city look like Selma 50 years ago... when it simply is not true.

Butch




BamaD -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/14/2014 9:11:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

If you listen to the interviews of the people of Ferguson there were no problems at all... there was no serious problems it is a great place to live in a mixed population.

But

This particular incident was so grievous that it NEEDED to be addressed immediately. It seems, by the news stories, most of the looters arrested were not even from Ferguson. Yet the orderly protesters are from Ferguson.

The US and international news are making the city look like Selma 50 years ago... when it simply is not true.

Butch

Must not have been any police dogs or water hoses or I am sure that Cloudboy would be ranting about it.




Marini -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/14/2014 9:12:57 PM)

Have I ever said that looting was okay?
Have I ever condoned the looting?
This is why I can't do this.
wtf




kdsub -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/14/2014 9:19:28 PM)

Marini you were praising a poster that does... so I assumed you were agreeing with him... you posted... good post...when he does not know the area in question and is not using good sense when talking about the make up of Ferguson's government. Many of whom were voted for by African Americans... but never let facts get in the way of Cloud Boy's rants.

He has no idea the progress the City has made in the last 15 years... how revitalized the business district is... what a good place it is to live. How personal income has increased because of the economic growth even in these hard times.

They will get over this tragedy and the reforms will make them stronger for it even if it can never bring back this young man.

Butch




TheHeretic -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/14/2014 9:36:23 PM)

FR

I hate it when a good, meaty, subject comes along at the same time I'm getting home late, and mentally fried.

I did have a few minutes today to read the excellent Rand Paul piece published on Time's website, and would encourage people to Google it up and give it a read.

Also, to Butch, the City-Data.com entry on Feguson MO doesn't match up very well to your glowing descriptions of how far the community has come.




kdsub -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/14/2014 9:52:24 PM)

Again if you lived here you would know where it was 15 years ago... all change is relative... but it is a good place to live... right now. Compare it to some surrounding communities and it is a glowing example of how good government and industrious people can make changes.

Come visit... drive around...see the difference in this town and some of its neighbors. Now if Cloud Boy wants to talk about North St. Louis he would find some agreement in me. Black children, are killed every day there... what needs to happen is Al Sharpton should come and demand change there... People should be protesting in the streets there.... Obama should be calling for calm there... the FBI... Highway Patrol...City and County police should be there...I am not exaggerating HUNDREDS are murdered every year there...but this all gets ignored by African Americans when ONE of hundreds and hundreds of murdered black men and women is killed by a white man... now this fact is racists.

Butch




crazyml -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/15/2014 3:44:09 AM)

Which of course says a lot about your pitiful command of the English language.

I was referring to rightist mouth breathers, not those on the right.

Now try reading that again while breathing through your nose.




thompsonx -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/15/2014 5:59:00 AM)


ORIGINAL: kdsub

There is only ONE way this could happen... they do NOT vote..


If I give you a chance to vote whether you are to be beat with a stick or a rod which will you choose? Or will you refuse to play such a game?

their own damn fault no one else's...


Since you proclaim that to be true then it can't be your fault... so now you and pontious pilate are off the hook?[8|]

the above is crap logic. Those that vote elect their representatives... if you don't vote have no valid reason to complain.

Ok..then which is it the stick or the rod?





thishereboi -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/15/2014 6:09:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrosaDom

I'm not aware of any KKK members on this forum.


Look deeper.



Since you made the claim, you could help her out and provide a few links. Assuming of course you are not talking out of your ass again.




thishereboi -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/15/2014 6:18:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

"I write demanding full accountability for the police killing of 18-year-old Michael Brown. On August 9, 2014, a Ferguson police officer racially profiled and fatally shot Michael as the teen stood in the street with his hands in the air. Police subsequently failed to properly notify the family of Michael's death and callously left the young man lying deceased in the street for hours.

This type of brutal and racially motivated police violence has no place in law enforcement. Every day, Black residents of Ferguson and Missouri face possible abuse and death at the hands of an officer due to discriminatory policing tactics based on dehumanizing racial stereotypes. In order to secure the necessary justice for Michael's family and prevent this type of indefensible violence in the future, you must take immediate action.

Please exercise your authority to complete a rigorous investigation of the Ferguson Police Department's racially discriminatory policing, prosecute said officers to the fullest extent of the law, and begin the firing process for all involved officers."

-- Rashad Robinson, the Executive Director of ColorOfChange.org,

I got the above message from a Petition being circulated on MoveOn.org.

Please tell us how you got all the facts before they were released.



Move on mailed that out yesterday. He is merely spitting out what he has been fed, and no they don't seem to be very worried about waiting for facts.




thompsonx -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/15/2014 6:18:54 AM)


ORIGINAL: kdsub

I am sorry Marini... what is right and what is wrong should have no skin color qualification. Looting is ALWAYS wrong and NEVER justified in a civilized society.


It is just as illegal for a rich man to sleep under a bridge as a not rich one. Since rich people don't sleep under bridges and break the law then those who do are primafacia a criminal class...just look how many of the not rich criminal class reside in our jails.[8|]

Why when someone says an action by a group of people is wrong they must always be accused of being racists...


I have a suspicion that if black people started shooting white people you would scream racism so why do you find it odd for it to work both ways?


or just don't understand this group of people or that group? When anarchist protest with looting and destruction at economic conventions...



How often has this happened? Have you a link?



they are wrong too..and mostly they are white... looting is wrong if you are yellow...red... black...brown... white... purple...or green dammit....wrong wrong wrong wrong... skin color is no excuse for looting.


The history of our country is repleat with white peoplel looting. There was the boston tea party of which you seem quite proud. Then there was all that land you looted from the locals. Our whole country is based on looting and stealing. Your grt.grandfather smedley butler spoke directly to this.

Many black people in Ferguson, in interviews by local new organisations...


Of course the "liberal media" would pick a representative cross section of local population to interview. There is looting and rioting but no one approves. It would seem that someone in the "liberal media" neglected to interview any of the rioters.[8|]



I can't understand because I am white I guess,


That you cant/wont understand is pretty obvious. That it is because you are white is less clear.




say the looting is wrong and want the protests to continue but the looting and violence to stop. They even say they are ashamed of the looting. I suppose that makes them uncle tom's and they don't understand their own Black people...


You are white but you do not support david duke. For you to make a similar analogy about blacks is disingenuous. If you continue to believe that all blacks think alike while ignoring that all whites do not think alike you will never understand what is going on.



Will I understand them just fine and believe they are the honorable people demanding change and it is them that will make it come about ...not the damn looters... the punks.

Rather than address thier issues it is far easier to brand them as criminals and shoot them or imprison them...is pretty much the same attitude george 3 and parliment took towards the looters and criminals in the colonies.




thompsonx -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/15/2014 6:20:49 AM)


ORIGINAL: kdsub

I guess they figure if they are making protesters clear the area they should make everyone clear the area.... reporters too.

Butch


Tell us once again the part of the constitution that authorizes that sort of behaviour by the authorities against peacefully assembled citizens. The reporters were in micky d's for fucks sake.




thompsonx -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/15/2014 6:21:53 AM)

ORIGINAL: kdsub


Hmmmm I wonder if it is possible for honorable people to have a revolution... without looting? I think so... how about you?

Just when in the history of mankind has that happened?[8|]




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