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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/15/2014 10:14:21 AM   
eulero83


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Joined: 11/4/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


Well, if you don't want rioting -- you release as much information as possible right away to explain what the police did. Also, you invite the parents into the police station to tell them what happened to their son, and to tell them how you plan to investigate the incident. You also call in and interview all the relevant witnesses.

As it looks, the police withheld information and the dressed up in riot gear armed with tear gas.




the way I understood how the situatin escalated, this was just the last incident of a long history of police oppressive behaviour, I actually don't think that would have helped, I'd say if you don't want rioting you don't create a segregated community.

< Message edited by eulero83 -- 8/15/2014 10:15:57 AM >

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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/15/2014 10:25:22 AM   
Gauge


Posts: 5689
Joined: 6/17/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Roflmfao...How many lies of the lapd did dr. henry lee expose at the oj trial?



Let me make something clear, I have been around the law all my life, my family is in the legal profession. I was raised to know that there are three sides to every story: Their side, your side, and the truth. Look, I am not a big fan of the police currently, but the automatic discounting of anything that they report from the investigation as a lie is also ridiculous. Whether or not you believe them is up to you, but it does not take away that they could be telling the truth. The eye witnesses also may be telling the truth, or a mixture of things just like the police, so let the cooler heads prevail, be patient and let this thing get investigated correctly.


_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/15/2014 10:30:35 AM   
Moderator3


Posts: 3289
Status: offline 		Just quoting this so that it can be seen on the new page.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moderator3

FR

Please make sure that when you are quoting someone, that you are actually using the quote features or are making it clear who is posting each comment. Blending posts has become an issue and we need to clean that up.

Staff would appreciate it as well as some of the members that are being misquoted.

Thank you


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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/15/2014 10:37:44 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


Well, if you don't want rioting -- you release as much information as possible right away to explain what the police did. Also, you invite the parents into the police station to tell them what happened to their son, and to tell them how you plan to investigate the incident. You also call in and interview all the relevant witnesses.

As it looks, the police withheld information and the dressed up in riot gear armed with tear gas.




the way I understood how the situatin escalated, this was just the last incident of a long history of police oppressive behaviour, I actually don't think that would have helped, I'd say if you don't want rioting you don't create a segregated community.

I don't know a great deal about this particular situation, but what you have described: "this was just the last incident of a long history of police oppressive behaviour," is, from my observations, pretty typical of the patterns that precede riots and civil disturbances.

I think that everyone posting here agrees that riots are not a clever or desirable response to such sequences of negligence by the authorities (which really ought to take care of the moral argument). But there does seem to be some resistance to the idea that in order to prevent repeat riots or further civil unrest, the factors that caused the anger and frustration that erupted into riots and civil unrest need to be identified and policies developed to address these factors.

This resistance puzzles me. Riots and civil unrest are de facto evidence that a problem of some sort exists. How do people expect to solve a problem if they are not prepared to identify and address its causes?

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 8/15/2014 10:39:14 AM >

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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/15/2014 11:03:13 AM   
thompsonx


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Joined: 10/1/2006
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ORIGINAL: Gauge


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Roflmfao...How many lies of the lapd did dr. henry lee expose at the oj trial?



Let me make something clear, I have been around the law all my life,


Let me make something clear, I have ben around the law all my life.

my family is in the legal profession.

I played a lawyer in the school play


I was raised to know that there are three sides to every story: Their side, your side,


Have we heard my side?...I wont say that all cops are crooks just the ones I have met.


and the truth. Look, I am not a big fan of the police currently, but the automatic discounting of anything that they report from the investigation as a lie is also ridiculous.


I do not believe anyone has done that. What has been posited is, that based on a long history of pervarication, that statements from the police need to be looked at with a somewhat cynical eye.


Whether or not you believe them is up to you, but it does not take away that they could be telling the truth.


I am sure there are stranger things that could happen???like the sun imploding

The eye witnesses also may be telling the truth, or a mixture of things just like the police, so let the cooler heads prevail, be patient and let this thing get investigated correctly.

So far "correctly" seems to be restricted to "circling the wagons".

(in reply to Gauge)
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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/15/2014 11:21:20 AM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

Also, those trying to make a racist narrative of the incident...the police officer that shot Michael Brown is black. (So I've just heard, haven't checked for confirmation myself).



That's weird. The first mention I heard about the race of the officer was on the Yahell/ABC feed and they said he was white.

Well, if he's black, I guess that removes the "racist" plank from the rioting platform. No?



Well I followed up on it and found out there is a black police officer in the area named Darren Wilson. It sounds like it could be someone who shared the same name though.

But yeah, it is still all but confirmed that the officer that day was searching for Michael Brown due to his involvement in a strong arm robbery at a convenience store.

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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/15/2014 11:22:16 AM   
Moderator3


Posts: 3289
Status: offline 		LOL Thanks for the bolded parts, but each message should indicate the person speaking so that staff doesn't have to go through and search and dissect posts.

The reason I am bringing this up is that there have been some complaints about misquotes that made it appear that someone else was saying something that they didn't say. When we come to review what has happened or when just glancing over a thread to see if there are any blatant issues, we cannot determine what might be going on and I don't feel I should have to put more moderators on, to understand a post, which can become many posts.

A simple 'me' and 'you' at the beginning might help to know which the bold or regular type belongs to, once we know who you are speaking to. This in part is why there is a rule in the guidelines that states you should keep the other members names in your quotes. When you have to read a twenty page thread and find one sentence that someone made, it doesn't make your day! lol I know that is an exaggeration for the most part, but it has happened.

Thanks!

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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/15/2014 11:26:15 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: Raiikun

But yeah, it is still all but confirmed that the officer that day was searching for Michael Brown due to his involvement in a strong arm robbery at a convenience store.

If, as you say, it is unconfirmed then why are you repeating something you do not know to be true?
Is it because you want it to be true?

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 228
RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/15/2014 11:41:08 AM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83


the way I understood how the situatin escalated, this was just the last incident of a long history of police oppressive behaviour, I actually don't think that would have helped, I'd say if you don't want rioting you don't create a segregated community.


Just three of Ferguson's 53-strong police force are black, while two-thirds of the town's population of 21,000 are black

Read more: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-ferguson-brown-shooting-20140815-story.html#ixzz3AUHddZYC

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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/15/2014 11:49:07 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83


the way I understood how the situatin escalated, this was just the last incident of a long history of police oppressive behaviour, I actually don't think that would have helped, I'd say if you don't want rioting you don't create a segregated community.


Just three of Ferguson's 53-strong police force are black, while two-thirds of the town's population of 21,000 are black

Read more: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-ferguson-brown-shooting-20140815-story.html#ixzz3AUHddZYC


Don't suppose that you noticed that they have Brown on tape committing a strong armed robbery a few minutes before the incident. Kinda changes the context doesn't it? Still not (before you go off the deep end) saying the cop is right, we still don't have even half the evidence. He was probably just stealing tea and skittles.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 8/15/2014 11:50:07 AM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/15/2014 12:07:23 PM   
Gauge


Posts: 5689
Joined: 6/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

I played a lawyer in the school play



Allow me to point out that I did not play a lawyer in the school play, I grew up around the law. This does not make me a lawyer, however it does mean that logical and critical thinking is something that I was raised to do.

quote:

Have we heard my side?...I wont say that all cops are crooks just the ones I have met.


My usage of the word "your" in my sentence was a generic term not relative to you personally.

quote:

I do not believe anyone has done that. What has been posited is, that based on a long history of pervarication, that statements from the police need to be looked at with a somewhat cynical eye.


Forgive me if I misinterpreted what it was that you were saying to me. What it appeared to do is to whitewash my comment by pointing to all the lies by the police surrounding the OJ Simpson case.

quote:

I am sure there are stranger things that could happen???like the sun imploding


Our sun is dying, if you believe the scientists. So here again, are you dismissing my comment by saying that what the police are saying about their investigation is an outright lie? I'm under the distinct impression that you won't believe the police investigation no matter what they say unless it fits your version of the truth, which may or may not be accurate.

quote:

So far "correctly" seems to be restricted to "circling the wagons".


I'm not even sure what that is supposed to mean.

I am not taking sides with the police or with the eyewitness accounts, I am taking sides with finding out the truth about what happened. Sadly, eyewitness accounts are not completely reliable however they do provide a basis for investigation. A quick Google search of "Reliability of eyewitness testimony" will produce a great deal of psychological research on my statement, so I didn't just make that up. Just as an example, an eyewitness tells the police that a man in a dark jacket mugged a woman. The police ask what the color of the jacket was. The eyewitness says they couldn't tell. The police ask if it was dark green. The eyewitness tells the police that it could have been. It is revealed that the suspect had a dark green jacket on and the eyewitness now believes that the jacket was dark green rather than sticking to their original statement that they could not tell. This shortened example has happened in clinical studies, I have no exact citation for that particular example, just my own recollection of reading an article about it. The point being that we must view eyewitness statements with caution, we tend to believe them without questioning them, but scientific study has proved that they are not always accurate.

I am not being dismissive of what took place here, I am trying to be objective. The unrest may be indicative of a larger problem and that is obviously going to be addressed now. Hopefully, there is enough outside scrutiny to keep the investigation honest.

< Message edited by Gauge -- 8/15/2014 12:08:46 PM >

_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 231
RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/15/2014 12:08:57 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

But yeah, it is still all but confirmed that the officer that day was searching for Michael Brown due to his involvement in a strong arm robbery at a convenience store.

If, as you say, it is unconfirmed then why are you repeating something you do not know to be true?
Is it because you want it to be true?



Because it was possibly true and this is a discussion forum. Duh?

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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/15/2014 12:17:25 PM   
subrosaDom


Posts: 724
Joined: 2/16/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83


the way I understood how the situatin escalated, this was just the last incident of a long history of police oppressive behaviour, I actually don't think that would have helped, I'd say if you don't want rioting you don't create a segregated community.


Just three of Ferguson's 53-strong police force are black, while two-thirds of the town's population of 21,000 are black

Read more: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-ferguson-brown-shooting-20140815-story.html#ixzz3AUHddZYC


Don't suppose that you noticed that they have Brown on tape committing a strong armed robbery a few minutes before the incident. Kinda changes the context doesn't it? Still not (before you go off the deep end) saying the cop is right, we still don't have even half the evidence. He was probably just stealing tea and skittles.


Well, he was a "nice boy about to go to college" as one quote described him, but it just left out "nice boy about to go to college who also was into strong arm robberies and general thuggery." That doesn't necessarily justify the shooting. What it does do is provide context that he's no angel. The witness that supports the "murder" accusation was apparently the accomplice to the robbery. So much for his credibility.

_____________________________

The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently.

- Nietzsche

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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/15/2014 12:39:36 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

But yeah, it is still all but confirmed that the officer that day was searching for Michael Brown due to his involvement in a strong arm robbery at a convenience store.

If, as you say, it is unconfirmed then why are you repeating something you do not know to be true?
Is it because you want it to be true?



Because it was possibly true and this is a discussion forum. Duh?

People who accept every rumor against the cops upset because you post one that isn't? That said I apply the same rule to this that I have to all the other rumors, I will wait for conformation.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 234
RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/15/2014 1:58:17 PM   
Raiikun


Posts: 2650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

But yeah, it is still all but confirmed that the officer that day was searching for Michael Brown due to his involvement in a strong arm robbery at a convenience store.

If, as you say, it is unconfirmed then why are you repeating something you do not know to be true?
Is it because you want it to be true?



Because it was possibly true and this is a discussion forum. Duh?

People who accept every rumor against the cops upset because you post one that isn't? That said I apply the same rule to this that I have to all the other rumors, I will wait for conformation.


Yep, and it's why when I'd even seen a photo of a black police officer in the same area with the same name, I still made sure to point out it wasn't confirmed.

(in reply to BamaD)
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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/15/2014 2:01:49 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

But yeah, it is still all but confirmed that the officer that day was searching for Michael Brown due to his involvement in a strong arm robbery at a convenience store.

If, as you say, it is unconfirmed then why are you repeating something you do not know to be true?
Is it because you want it to be true?



Because it was possibly true and this is a discussion forum. Duh?

People who accept every rumor against the cops upset because you post one that isn't? That said I apply the same rule to this that I have to all the other rumors, I will wait for conformation.


Yep, and it's why when I'd even seen a photo of a black police officer in the same area with the same name, I still made sure to point out it wasn't confirmed.


I will complement you on being the only person who stated that you had information but that it had not be confirmed. Thank you for maintaining prospective.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 236
RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/15/2014 2:24:03 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
ORIGINAL: Raiikun


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

But yeah, it is still all but confirmed that the officer that day was searching for Michael Brown due to his involvement in a strong arm robbery at a convenience store.

If, as you say, it is unconfirmed then why are you repeating something you do not know to be true?
Is it because you want it to be true?



Because it was possibly true and this is a discussion forum. Duh?


It might also be "possibly" true that you are an escaped felon intent on rape pillage and plunder.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 237
RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/15/2014 2:28:48 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		Your problem is, has been, and continues to be -- zero sense of EXCESSIVE USE OF FORCE. But more on point:

"However, in an afternoon press conference by Ferguson, Mo. Police Chief Thomas Jackson, said the two incidents were not related. He said Wilson did not know about the robbery when he confronted and then shot Brown, whose death spurred violent protests and unrest in the St. Louis suburb over the past week."

--USA Today

-----

"The tension reached a breaking point Wednesday when St. Louis County Police arrived with four armored trucks. Officers in gas masks and fatigues yelled at protesters to leave. We won't tolerate non-peaceful actions," an officer yelled through a loudspeaker Wednesday night. He told protesters to put down their rocks and weapons, though no rocks had been thrown and no weapons were visible."

--USA Today

"Pictures from Ferguson make the police look more like an occupying force fighting jihadis in Iraq than law enforcement keeping order in their own community."

--USA Today

"Officers roughed up two reporters Wednesday, and video also shows police lobbing a tear gas grenade at a TV news crew. Once the crew fled, police in gas masks began taking down the lights and video camera — until they realized another crew was taping them."






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 8/15/2014 2:29:54 PM >

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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/15/2014 2:32:01 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		Doesn't this seem excessive? (Photo juxtaposed with old civil rights photo.) See post below:



< Message edited by cloudboy -- 8/15/2014 2:33:27 PM >

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 239
RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/15/2014 2:34:58 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
Photo:






Attachment (1)

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