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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/15/2014 2:44:31 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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ORIGINAL: Gauge

Allow me to point out that I did not play a lawyer in the school play, I grew up around the law. This does not make me a lawyer, however it does mean that logical and critical thinking is something that I was raised to do.

Your post seems to presume that I lack that talent?


quote:

I am sure there are stranger things that could happen???like the sun imploding


Our sun is dying,

Estimated time of demise is something like million of years away whereas my implosion is instantanious.


if you believe the scientists. So here again, are you dismissing my comment by saying that what the police are saying about their investigation is an outright lie?

The historical record shows the validity of my position. Consider the case of al capone. A well known criminal but all of the evidence (and jury) against him was tainted



I'm under the distinct impression that you won't believe the police investigation no matter what they say unless it fits your version of the truth, which may or may not be accurate.

It is not my job to shoe horn their story into the box of truth. It is theirs.


quote:

So far "correctly" seems to be restricted to "circling the wagons".


I'm not even sure what that is supposed to mean.

Obtuse is the word that describes this statement. If you are old enough to post on these boards then you know that "circling the wagons" is a term that denotes taking a defensive position. Which is what the cops have done. As opposed to actually seeking a dialogue.

I am not taking sides with the police or with the eyewitness accounts, I am taking sides with finding out the truth about what happened.


You have clearly taken the side of the police.


Sadly, eyewitness accounts are not completely reliable however they do provide a basis for investigation. A quick Google search of "Reliability of eyewitness testimony" will produce a great deal of psychological research on my statement, so I didn't just make that up. Just as an example, an eyewitness tells the police that a man in a dark jacket mugged a woman. The police ask what the color of the jacket was. The eyewitness says they couldn't tell. The police ask if it was dark green. The eyewitness tells the police that it could have been. It is revealed that the suspect had a dark green jacket on and the eyewitness now believes that the jacket was dark green rather than sticking to their original statement that they could not tell. This shortened example has happened in clinical studies, I have no exact citation for that particular example, just my own recollection of reading an article about it. The point being that we must view eyewitness statements with caution, we tend to believe them without questioning them, but scientific study has proved that they are not always accurate.

I am not unaware of this. So,please, drop the pedentry.



I am not being dismissive of what took place here, I am trying to be objective.

Objective would include a thourough knowledge of typical police actions. You are speaking of being objective but ignoring the fact that the police have a long and disgusting record of lying,corruption and murder.

The unrest may be indicative of a larger problem

May be?????roflmfao...may beGood lord woman they tried to burn the phoquing town down...yeah I think there "may be" a problem.

and that is obviously going to be addressed now.

I am 70 phoquing years old and I have seen very little real change happen in this area.


Hopefully, there is enough outside scrutiny to keep the investigation honest.

I am not going to hold my breath on this.

(in reply to Gauge)
Profile   Post #: 241
RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/15/2014 2:49:41 PM   
Arturas


Posts: 3245
Status: offline 		Sure. The officer shot his own car interior because he hated the color and then shot the innocent young black man because he missed his car interior. Why not? We can ignore reality too. I mean, why would we think this young man and his companion would assault the officer, to kill the officer, rather than go to jail? That makes no sense, instead it makes more sense that the 7 year veteran with a clean record was just pissed and shot the man randomly,

Can we continue the riots for justice now please? I've just arrived and have yet to shop.

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Profile   Post #: 242
RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/15/2014 2:53:35 PM   
Arturas


Posts: 3245
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: Gauge

Allow me to point out that I did not play a lawyer in the school play, I grew up around the law. This does not make me a lawyer, however it does mean that logical and critical thinking is something that I was raised to do.

Your post seems to presume that I lack that talent?


quote:

I am sure there are stranger things that could happen???like the sun imploding


Our sun is dying,

Estimated time of demise is something like million of years away whereas my implosion is instantanious.


if you believe the scientists. So here again, are you dismissing my comment by saying that what the police are saying about their investigation is an outright lie?

The historical record shows the validity of my position. Consider the case of al capone. A well known criminal but all of the evidence (and jury) against him was tainted



I'm under the distinct impression that you won't believe the police investigation no matter what they say unless it fits your version of the truth, which may or may not be accurate.

It is not my job to shoe horn their story into the box of truth. It is theirs.


quote:

So far "correctly" seems to be restricted to "circling the wagons".


I'm not even sure what that is supposed to mean.

Obtuse is the word that describes this statement. If you are old enough to post on these boards then you know that "circling the wagons" is a term that denotes taking a defensive position. Which is what the cops have done. As opposed to actually seeking a dialogue.

I am not taking sides with the police or with the eyewitness accounts, I am taking sides with finding out the truth about what happened.


You have clearly taken the side of the police.


Sadly, eyewitness accounts are not completely reliable however they do provide a basis for investigation. A quick Google search of "Reliability of eyewitness testimony" will produce a great deal of psychological research on my statement, so I didn't just make that up. Just as an example, an eyewitness tells the police that a man in a dark jacket mugged a woman. The police ask what the color of the jacket was. The eyewitness says they couldn't tell. The police ask if it was dark green. The eyewitness tells the police that it could have been. It is revealed that the suspect had a dark green jacket on and the eyewitness now believes that the jacket was dark green rather than sticking to their original statement that they could not tell. This shortened example has happened in clinical studies, I have no exact citation for that particular example, just my own recollection of reading an article about it. The point being that we must view eyewitness statements with caution, we tend to believe them without questioning them, but scientific study has proved that they are not always accurate.

I am not unaware of this. So,please, drop the pedentry.



I am not being dismissive of what took place here, I am trying to be objective.

Objective would include a thourough knowledge of typical police actions. You are speaking of being objective but ignoring the fact that the police have a long and disgusting record of lying,corruption and murder.

The unrest may be indicative of a larger problem

May be?????roflmfao...may beGood lord woman they tried to burn the phoquing town down...yeah I think there "may be" a problem.

and that is obviously going to be addressed now.

I am 70 phoquing years old and I have seen very little real change happen in this area.


Hopefully, there is enough outside scrutiny to keep the investigation honest.

I am not going to hold my breath on this.


Why is everyone making this so complicated? Do you have nothing better to do? Star knows what happened, she lived there for a very long time. She says the guy disobeyed the officer and attacked him after doing some crime, she knew this days ago, and the officer had to defend himself against this violent giant of a man. Then, she said she knew the black community there and the riots were just to steal, period. So, guess she it looking very right here...but carry on guys. I'm going riding.

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Profile   Post #: 243
RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/15/2014 2:54:16 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subrosaDom
Well, he was a "nice boy about to go to college" as one quote described him, but it just left out "nice boy about to go to college who also was into strong arm robberies and general thuggery." That doesn't necessarily justify the shooting. What it does do is provide context that he's no angel. The witness that supports the "murder" accusation was apparently the accomplice to the robbery. So much for his credibility.

"Doesn't necessarily justify" under what circumstances is stealing some smokes and giving a guy a shove a capital crime?

Anyway that whole thing was bullshit the killer cop did not know anything about the robbery or that Brown might have been involved. That was misdirection by the Ferguson Police chief.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2014/aug/15/ferguson-police-officer-michael-brown-darren-wilson#block-53ee5f15e4b06c461acbb5c4

(in reply to subrosaDom)
Profile   Post #: 244
RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/15/2014 2:56:07 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Yeah, the cops stories coming out here and there are not pat. There is an independent witness come forward, and we dont know the shot up interior from nothing, but look here, shooting a cop might get you out of going to jail at that instant, but shooting up the interior of a cop car will not. Nobody has ever said that this guy had a gun.

I think you need to catch up on some of your bi-polar pills. Cuz you are off the fuckin hook.

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Profile   Post #: 245
RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/15/2014 2:57:21 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
USA Today:






Attachment (1)

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Profile   Post #: 246
RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/15/2014 3:26:23 PM   
Arturas


Posts: 3245
Status: offline
quote:

Anyway that whole thing was bullshit the killer cop did not know anything about the robbery or that Brown might have been involved.


Now that makes sense. The young man did not assault the officer because he just somehow knew the officer did not know about his earlier crime.

_____________________________

"We master Our world."

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Profile   Post #: 247
RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/15/2014 3:31:11 PM   
Arturas


Posts: 3245
Status: offline
quote:

There is an independent witness come forward, and we dont know the shot up interior from nothing, but look here, shooting a cop might get you out of going to jail at that instant, but shooting up the interior of a cop car will not. Nobody has ever said that this guy had a gun.

You are smarter than this. We have two independent witnesses that say different things, imagine that. The interior is shot up because of the struggle with the gun, remember the assault on the cop, and the people will kill to avoid any jail. This is so simple and a slam dunk, especially when you see the store video tape of this innocent young man assaulting the store owner. See the pattern? Violent assault of the store clerk for a cheap box of cigars, imagine what he will do to avoid several years of jail? Kill, that's what. Slam dunk. Going riding. Amuse yourselves.

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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/15/2014 3:36:14 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
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quote:

Well I followed up on it and found out there is a black police officer in the area named Darren Wilson. It sounds like it could be someone who shared the same name though.


Apparently, the black officer whose picture is flying around the net isn't the Darren Wilson in question. He's based in nearby St Louis.

I'm somewhat baffled that nowhere on the net can I find a picture of the Darren Wilson who shot Michael Brown. Is it sub judice? If not, what's wrong with the news hounds?

Another matter: What's a 'strong armed robbery'? I've never heard that particular expression before. Ta for anyone's help.

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Profile   Post #: 249
RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/15/2014 3:38:01 PM   
Gauge


Posts: 5689
Joined: 6/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Your post seems to presume that I lack that talent?



Not at all. In fact, I acknowledge your critical and logical thinking, so please, don't read into something I write. If I have something to say directly, I will do so.

quote:

Estimated time of demise is something like million of years away whereas my implosion is instantanious.


Your point was understood.

quote:

The historical record shows the validity of my position. Consider the case of al capone. A well known criminal but all of the evidence (and jury) against him was tainted


I never decried the validity of your position. What I have pointed out is that you appear to have a particular bias toward dismissing anything that the police say. I remain steadfast about not convicting someone until there is proof. That is my only opposing viewpoint.

quote:

It is not my job to shoe horn their story into the box of truth. It is theirs.


Nor did I imply it was. However you have shot down everything that might be valid from the police with no other reasoning than they are the police. I get what you are saying, I just cannot be so footloose with my judgment.

quote:

Obtuse is the word that describes this statement. If you are old enough to post on these boards then you know that "circling the wagons" is a term that denotes taking a defensive position. Which is what the cops have done. As opposed to actually seeking a dialogue.


I assure you that I am not obtuse, if you have spent any time on these boards, you should know that. I apologize if I failed to understand what exactly you were driving at. Thank you for clarifying.

quote:

You have clearly taken the side of the police.


Please point out where I took the side of the police. I have balanced everything I have written with the distinct caveat that it may be true, but no one knows what happened exactly. My post where I said, "Or, it could be the truth," is not taking sides because I said it could be the truth.

quote:

I am not unaware of this. So,please, drop the pedentry.


Good to know. My statement did not fall to the side of being pedantic, it was illustrative of my point. That you viewed it as such is interesting seeing that most people just throw unsubstantiated rhetoric around and call it factual. I actually supported my statement, the fact that you knew it already was outside of my scope of being an adept psychic.

quote:

Objective would include a thourough knowledge of typical police actions. You are speaking of being objective but ignoring the fact that the police have a long and disgusting record of lying,corruption and murder.


Please show me where I have ignored the history of the police. Show me one instance where I have indicated ignorance of police corruption, and deceit.

quote:

May be?????roflmfao...may beGood lord woman they tried to burn the phoquing town down...yeah I think there "may be" a problem.


Yes, it may be an indicator. Or, it may be an indication that people just needed to loot and riot because a policeman shot someone. People do not normally riot without a reason, and my statement takes that into account.

quote:

I am 70 phoquing years old and I have seen very little real change happen in this area.


Here we agree. In fact, we have seen a decline in police integrity. It has become less of "protect and serve" and more of an "us against them" mentality. If the statistics are accurate, and that there are a small number of black police officers in a predominantly black area, yes I believe that that problem will be addressed.

quote:

I am not going to hold my breath on this.


Me either. Whatever their findings are, all I can do is remain hopeful that they reveal what happened with accuracy.

It is very clear that you don't agree with me and think I am biased in favor of the police, which I am not. It is also clear that you have no faith that the police will do anything but tell the truth. We could go on forever like that, I am inclined to simply agree to disagree.

_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 250
RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/15/2014 3:44:07 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

Well I followed up on it and found out there is a black police officer in the area named Darren Wilson. It sounds like it could be someone who shared the same name though.


Apparently, the black officer whose picture is flying around the net isn't the Darren Wilson in question. He's based in nearby St Louis.

I'm somewhat baffled that nowhere on the net can I find a picture of the Darren Wilson who shot Michael Brown. Is it sub judice? If not, what's wrong with the news hounds?

Another matter: What's a 'strong armed robbery'? I've never heard that particular expression before. Ta for anyone's help.

That is when you are willing to beat the clerk to death rather than shoot him.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/15/2014 4:17:54 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

Well I followed up on it and found out there is a black police officer in the area named Darren Wilson. It sounds like it could be someone who shared the same name though.


Apparently, the black officer whose picture is flying around the net isn't the Darren Wilson in question. He's based in nearby St Louis.

I'm somewhat baffled that nowhere on the net can I find a picture of the Darren Wilson who shot Michael Brown. Is it sub judice? If not, what's wrong with the news hounds?

Another matter: What's a 'strong armed robbery'? I've never heard that particular expression before. Ta for anyone's help.

That is when you are willing to beat the clerk to death rather than shoot him.

And in this case it is total BS.

Brown shoplifted a pack a cheap cigars. He got caught on the way out of the store and he gave the store clerk a shove.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 252
RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/15/2014 4:23:39 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

quote:

Anyway that whole thing was bullshit the killer cop did not know anything about the robbery or that Brown might have been involved.


Now that makes sense. The young man did not assault the officer because he just somehow knew the officer did not know about his earlier crime.

It doesn't matter what Brown knew or didn't know. The cop was not stopping him on suspicion of being a thief. He was simply hassling him for walking in the street. Releasing the video and the report about the theft was just an attempt to get scum like you to believe that Brown needed to be killed.

And there was no shot up interior. That is more bullshit being spread on right wing sites. No reputable source has ever said Brown ever had control of the officers weapon or fired any shots inside or into the car.

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Profile   Post #: 253
RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/15/2014 4:25:39 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

I was having lunch with a friend yesterday, and she said that riots and looting simply arm the opponents of an issue with ammunition. So, instead of talking about the underlying issues, you have a repeated mantra of "looting is wrong."


This just is not true... I challenge you to go back and this time read my posts then come back and tell me again where I have not been talking about the issue that caused the demonstrations. I have always agreed with the need and right of law abiding citizens to demand through protest answers to this incident.

I'm not sure what your thing is... are you so sure of what you THINK others will say that you don't read their posts? Do you just assume the answer to what you think they said instead of what they actually say?

I will say it again... the protesting is a valid reaction to the shooting of this young man... The only reason I and others keep harping on the looting is because some... you included, refuse to admit it is wrong without justification. This distinction may not seem important to you but... you live in another world than the majority of people seeing the looters steal live on television.

Everyone's actions in this tragedy are being judged make no mistake of that...and black looters are not making their case with the majority of Americans. This fact is as important as the protests and to ignore it is just sticking your head in the sand.

Butch

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/15/2014 4:30:45 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

...where do we get the "No Justice" tee shirts? Do we protest them from the store? Are there any left in my size and color?


Fuck the fact that an unarmed young kid has been killed while holding his hands up eh ?

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Profile   Post #: 255
RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/15/2014 4:36:45 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

Lmfao.......... If you think riots never make anything better, wtf do you think a revolution is ?


Hmmmm I wonder if it is possible for honorable people to have a revolution... without looting? I think so... how about you?

Butch


How fucking absurd...... No only given the whole context of my post., but also the undisputable facts most revolutions are violent.

I take it you have missed all the posters on here claiming they need to keep there guns to avoid having a dictatorship. Sounds non violent to me, what say you Butch ?

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Profile   Post #: 256
RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/15/2014 4:41:00 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrosaDom

I'm not aware of any KKK members on this forum.


Look deeper.



Since you made the claim, you could help her out and provide a few links. Assuming of course you are not talking out of your ass again.



Fuck you....... I hope that helps ? That you choose not to see it isnt my problem.

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Profile   Post #: 257
RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/15/2014 4:41:13 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

I was having lunch with a friend yesterday, and she said that riots and looting simply arm the opponents of an issue with ammunition. So, instead of talking about the underlying issues, you have a repeated mantra of "looting is wrong."


This just is not true... I challenge you to go back and this time read my posts then come back and tell me again where I have not been talking about the issue that caused the demonstrations. I have always agreed with the need and right of law abiding citizens to demand through protest answers to this incident.

I'm not sure what your thing is... are you so sure of what you THINK others will say that you don't read their posts? Do you just assume the answer to what you think they said instead of what they actually say?

I will say it again... the protesting is a valid reaction to the shooting of this young man... The only reason I and others keep harping on the looting is because some... you included, refuse to admit it is wrong without justification. This distinction may not seem important to you but... you live in another world than the majority of people seeing the looters steal live on television.

Everyone's actions in this tragedy are being judged make no mistake of that...and black looters are not making their case with the majority of Americans. This fact is as important as the protests and to ignore it is just sticking your head in the sand.

Butch

A small number of people did the looting on one night. Since then we've had many nights of protests that were met with what looked like a military crack down. And you remain more concerned with some stolen rims.

Did your local police attacking people with tear gas while standing in their own yards not bother you? What about a line of "police" in full combat gear backed up by armored vehicles pointing weapons at peaceful demonstrators in broad daylight? How about officers arresting two reporters because they didn't exit a McDonald's fast enough when ordered to? (since when can the police order anyone out a restaurant without some underlying complaint anyway?)

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 258
RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/15/2014 4:43:52 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

Turns out that Officer Darren Wilson was responding to reports of a convenience store robbery when he encountered Michael Brown, who is visible in surveillance footage from the convenience store.


Turns out you are talking shit yet again, according to local police reports one incident had nothing to do with the other.

(in reply to Raiikun)
Profile   Post #: 259
RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/15/2014 4:48:25 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I did not say they were not violent... I am asking if looting is necessary for a revolution... you seem to think it is by your posts. When the US revolted... did they loot their own businesses? When the French were chopping off heads were they looting their own businesses? Looting is not necessary or common for protests or revolutions... in my opinion of course.

And how have you been Politesub... I have not seen you around of late or maybe I have not been reading the same threads.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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Profile   Post #: 260
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