quote:

ORIGINAL: SeekingTrinity

Quite sad but true, Kirata. I guess I just wanted those calling for his head on a stake to just admit the bias.

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ORIGINAL: SeekingTrinity

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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

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ORIGINAL: Kirata

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ORIGINAL: SeekingTrinity

isn't Wilson just as innocent until he is proven guilty of a crime beyond a reasonable doubt? Or do we just say "fuck it," convict him based only on the court of public opinion without any sort of investigation, and then execute him right there in the streets of Ferguson?

Well I think if you look around, some people's answer is evident.

K.

If "innocent until he is proven guilty " was a bar to being arrested you two might actually have a point.
But it isn't and never has been....plenty of innocent folks have had to endure and suffer the indignities of an arrest.

Quite true. But to even get to an arrest position, a completed investigation to submit to the DA needs to happen. No two ways about it...that takes time. But people are screaming for him to be arrested RIGHT NOW, rather than awaiting an investigation or even Grand Jury decision.

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ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

quote:

ORIGINAL: SeekingTrinity

Quite sad but true, Kirata. I guess I just wanted those calling for his head on a stake to just admit the bias.

See, you just don't understand. All gun owners are psycho killers just waiting to snap. Or they're secret KKK members just waiting for an excuse to murder a black man. All officer involved shootings are cold blooded executions, and probably racist ones at that. Oh, well all except if the officer is black and the suspect white. Then it's perfectly justified and the officer should be given a commendation.

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

I don't know what happens in the whole europe, I'm italian I can only talk about northern italy, I traveled but never had interactions with law enforcement outside that area.
For what's the general attitude there are illegal things and less illegal things, so jaywalking is not comparable to theft, and just implying that is something makes me wonder if you are serious or if you are exagerating it on purpose, in the case of walking in the middle of the street, they would probably just briefly stop say "guys plese use the sidewalk" and then go away, but the whole thing of not using the sidewalk is that big deal here, as I said traffic law is more pedestrian friendly here. Actually my father jaywalked some days ago he was called by a traffic officer but didn't stopped acting like he didn't hear and they didn't bothered to run after him. Anyway it would be for me unbelivable that someone reacts voilently over a 25€ fine and I'm sure of one thing... no gun would have been drawn.

I understand the difference between a relatively minor crime and something more serious. What you don't seem to understand is, this wasn't about "jaywalking". It may have started with something relatively minor, but then it escalated. Even ignoring everything else, Brown's buddy admitted that Brown pushed the officer as he tried to exit his vehicle. That's assault. Do Italian police ignore people assaulting them?

You keep saying "jaywalking" which implies someone crossing a street where they shouldn't. That's not really the same thing as someone who's not trying to cross, but is just walking down the center of the street. That may be something else you don't get, maybe people don't do that in Italy, but for some reason it's not all that uncommon here. Groups (usually older kids 16-18ish) just walk down the middle of the street as if they have every right to be there, then get belligerent if you honk at them to stop blocking traffic. Gauge commented on this same thing a few pages back.

As far as people getting violent over stupid things, ask any police officer if it's ever happened to them. I used to work retail, and have been threatened over things that would seem moronic to anyone else. I once had a customer call me a "faggot" and threaten to beat my ass over a $30 game that he wanted to return with no receipt and no box. I eventually had to call the police and have him removed from the store. So I have no problem believing that someone would start a fight over a minor ticket. Especially not if he also had a box of stolen cigars in his pocket at the time.

I don't know why the officer went for his gun rather then trying something non-lethal first. To me, this tends to make me think there's something to the officer's claim that Brown went for his weapon. If Brown had already tried to steal the officer's weapon, and he was charging at the officer again, it's safe to assume he would have tried to do so again if he got close enough. (This is of course making the assumption that what the officer says is true and A: he had tried to take the gun and B: he was charging) As more facts come out, maybe this will turn out not to be the case and the officer just plain fucked up. If the facts support it, I'll be happy to concede the officer's guilt, but as of now I just don't see it.

There is a unverified report that Wilson's eye socket had an "orbital blowout fracture" . If this turns out to be accurate likely was seeing double. This would explain the pattern of the hits, all were way off center. It would also mean that he might very well have only been able to tell Brown was turning on him. As I said this is not yet verified.

Total bull. There is video of him walking around after killing Brown. he never even touches his face and the other officer who arrives doesn't either. If he had that serious an injury to his face he'd at least touch it or cover his eye.

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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

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ORIGINAL: SeekingTrinity

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

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ORIGINAL: SeekingTrinity

isn't Wilson just as innocent until he is proven guilty of a crime beyond a reasonable doubt? Or do we just say "fuck it," convict him based only on the court of public opinion without any sort of investigation, and then execute him right there in the streets of Ferguson?

Well I think if you look around, some people's answer is evident.

K.

If "innocent until he is proven guilty " was a bar to being arrested you two might actually have a point.
But it isn't and never has been....plenty of innocent folks have had to endure and suffer the indignities of an arrest.

Quite true. But to even get to an arrest position, a completed investigation to submit to the DA needs to happen. No two ways about it...that takes time. But people are screaming for him to be arrested RIGHT NOW, rather than awaiting an investigation or even Grand Jury decision.

Bullshit,people are arrested everyday minus a complete investigation....
People were arrested last night right there in Ferguson without a complete investigation.
what utter bullshit !!!!!

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Bullshit,people are arrested everyday minus a complete investigation....
People were arrested last night right there in Ferguson without a complete investigation.
what utter bullshit !!!!!

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: SeekingTrinity

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: SeekingTrinity

isn't Wilson just as innocent until he is proven guilty of a crime beyond a reasonable doubt? Or do we just say "fuck it," convict him based only on the court of public opinion without any sort of investigation, and then execute him right there in the streets of Ferguson?

Well I think if you look around, some people's answer is evident.

K.

If "innocent until he is proven guilty " was a bar to being arrested you two might actually have a point.
But it isn't and never has been....plenty of innocent folks have had to endure and suffer the indignities of an arrest.

Quite true. But to even get to an arrest position, a completed investigation to submit to the DA needs to happen. No two ways about it...that takes time. But people are screaming for him to be arrested RIGHT NOW, rather than awaiting an investigation or even Grand Jury decision.

Bullshit,people are arrested everyday minus a complete investigation....
People were arrested last night right there in Ferguson without a complete investigation.
what utter bullshit !!!!!

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

They do seem to have trouble coming up with good poster children, don't they. It's nowhere near as bad as when they need to guilt people into feeling bad about the way-too-long execution of a murderer, and his crime had been to gut-shoot a woman before burying her alive.

It really is a shame about the poster child thing, because there are real issues to be raised in a tragedy like Ferguson. I saw another person was killed by St. Louis police just a few miles from where Brown died. Two cops, one crazy acting guy with a knife. It seems like maybe one of them could have had the tazer out, instead of the gun

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ORIGINAL: BamaD
An interesting point do the Ferguson of St Louis police carry tasers? Not all police do. Most in my area do not.

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ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
An interesting point do the Ferguson of St Louis police carry tasers? Not all police do. Most in my area do not.

Pepper spray? Baton? The other cop was right there to cover the one trying less-than-lethal. (the more recent killing - not Brown)

Of course, when the SoCal cops killed Kelly Thomas, they just compressed his chest, and beat him to a pulp with their fists.

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ORIGINAL: DomKen
Being hit doesn't give the cop the right to shoot. That you think it does is troubling.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

I don't know what happens in the whole europe, I'm italian I can only talk about northern italy, I traveled but never had interactions with law enforcement outside that area.
For what's the general attitude there are illegal things and less illegal things, so jaywalking is not comparable to theft, and just implying that is something makes me wonder if you are serious or if you are exagerating it on purpose, in the case of walking in the middle of the street, they would probably just briefly stop say "guys plese use the sidewalk" and then go away, but the whole thing of not using the sidewalk is that big deal here, as I said traffic law is more pedestrian friendly here. Actually my father jaywalked some days ago he was called by a traffic officer but didn't stopped acting like he didn't hear and they didn't bothered to run after him. Anyway it would be for me unbelivable that someone reacts voilently over a 25€ fine and I'm sure of one thing... no gun would have been drawn.

I understand the difference between a relatively minor crime and something more serious. What you don't seem to understand is, this wasn't about "jaywalking". It may have started with something relatively minor, but then it escalated. Even ignoring everything else, Brown's buddy admitted that Brown pushed the officer as he tried to exit his vehicle. That's assault. Do Italian police ignore people assaulting them?

You keep saying "jaywalking" which implies someone crossing a street where they shouldn't. That's not really the same thing as someone who's not trying to cross, but is just walking down the center of the street. That may be something else you don't get, maybe people don't do that in Italy, but for some reason it's not all that uncommon here. Groups (usually older kids 16-18ish) just walk down the middle of the street as if they have every right to be there, then get belligerent if you honk at them to stop blocking traffic. Gauge commented on this same thing a few pages back.

As far as people getting violent over stupid things, ask any police officer if it's ever happened to them. I used to work retail, and have been threatened over things that would seem moronic to anyone else. I once had a customer call me a "faggot" and threaten to beat my ass over a $30 game that he wanted to return with no receipt and no box. I eventually had to call the police and have him removed from the store. So I have no problem believing that someone would start a fight over a minor ticket. Especially not if he also had a box of stolen cigars in his pocket at the time.

I don't know why the officer went for his gun rather then trying something non-lethal first. To me, this tends to make me think there's something to the officer's claim that Brown went for his weapon. If Brown had already tried to steal the officer's weapon, and he was charging at the officer again, it's safe to assume he would have tried to do so again if he got close enough. (This is of course making the assumption that what the officer says is true and A: he had tried to take the gun and B: he was charging) As more facts come out, maybe this will turn out not to be the case and the officer just plain fucked up. If the facts support it, I'll be happy to concede the officer's guilt, but as of now I just don't see it.

There is a unverified report that Wilson's eye socket had an "orbital blowout fracture" . If this turns out to be accurate likely was seeing double. This would explain the pattern of the hits, all were way off center. It would also mean that he might very well have only been able to tell Brown was turning on him. As I said this is not yet verified.

Total bull. There is video of him walking around after killing Brown. he never even touches his face and the other officer who arrives doesn't either. If he had that serious an injury to his face he'd at least touch it or cover his eye.

No surprise. I pointed out not once but twice that this had not yet been verified so that even a moron could see I wasn't claiming it a a proven fact.
I didn't know you were on or I would have tried to make it even clearer

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ORIGINAL: SeekingTrinity

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

I don't know what happens in the whole europe, I'm italian I can only talk about northern italy, I traveled but never had interactions with law enforcement outside that area.
For what's the general attitude there are illegal things and less illegal things, so jaywalking is not comparable to theft, and just implying that is something makes me wonder if you are serious or if you are exagerating it on purpose, in the case of walking in the middle of the street, they would probably just briefly stop say "guys plese use the sidewalk" and then go away, but the whole thing of not using the sidewalk is that big deal here, as I said traffic law is more pedestrian friendly here. Actually my father jaywalked some days ago he was called by a traffic officer but didn't stopped acting like he didn't hear and they didn't bothered to run after him. Anyway it would be for me unbelivable that someone reacts voilently over a 25€ fine and I'm sure of one thing... no gun would have been drawn.

I understand the difference between a relatively minor crime and something more serious. What you don't seem to understand is, this wasn't about "jaywalking". It may have started with something relatively minor, but then it escalated. Even ignoring everything else, Brown's buddy admitted that Brown pushed the officer as he tried to exit his vehicle. That's assault. Do Italian police ignore people assaulting them?

You keep saying "jaywalking" which implies someone crossing a street where they shouldn't. That's not really the same thing as someone who's not trying to cross, but is just walking down the center of the street. That may be something else you don't get, maybe people don't do that in Italy, but for some reason it's not all that uncommon here. Groups (usually older kids 16-18ish) just walk down the middle of the street as if they have every right to be there, then get belligerent if you honk at them to stop blocking traffic. Gauge commented on this same thing a few pages back.

As far as people getting violent over stupid things, ask any police officer if it's ever happened to them. I used to work retail, and have been threatened over things that would seem moronic to anyone else. I once had a customer call me a "faggot" and threaten to beat my ass over a $30 game that he wanted to return with no receipt and no box. I eventually had to call the police and have him removed from the store. So I have no problem believing that someone would start a fight over a minor ticket. Especially not if he also had a box of stolen cigars in his pocket at the time.

I don't know why the officer went for his gun rather then trying something non-lethal first. To me, this tends to make me think there's something to the officer's claim that Brown went for his weapon. If Brown had already tried to steal the officer's weapon, and he was charging at the officer again, it's safe to assume he would have tried to do so again if he got close enough. (This is of course making the assumption that what the officer says is true and A: he had tried to take the gun and B: he was charging) As more facts come out, maybe this will turn out not to be the case and the officer just plain fucked up. If the facts support it, I'll be happy to concede the officer's guilt, but as of now I just don't see it.

There is a unverified report that Wilson's eye socket had an "orbital blowout fracture" . If this turns out to be accurate likely was seeing double. This would explain the pattern of the hits, all were way off center. It would also mean that he might very well have only been able to tell Brown was turning on him. As I said this is not yet verified.

Total bull. There is video of him walking around after killing Brown. he never even touches his face and the other officer who arrives doesn't either. If he had that serious an injury to his face he'd at least touch it or cover his eye.

All due respect, but have you ever been amped on adrenaline after a fight or flight moment? Its honestly not a stretch for someone to not even recognize they've been hurt until the danger has passed. I came across a pretty hellacious car accident once where the guy had an open fracture of his arm, yet he was walking around freaking out about the accident and insisting he wasnt hurt WITH his bone sticking up out of his arm. I wouldnt have believed it myself had I not seen it with my own eyes. I thought he was drunk or high to not even feel it. He passed the DUI testing though.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
An interesting point do the Ferguson of St Louis police carry tasers? Not all police do. Most in my area do not.

Pepper spray? Baton? The other cop was right there to cover the one trying less-than-lethal. (the more recent killing - not Brown)

Of course, when the SoCal cops killed Kelly Thomas, they just compressed his chest, and beat him to a pulp with their fists.

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ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Being hit doesn't give the cop the right to shoot. That you think it does is troubling.

No, just being hit wouldn't. Since I never said any such thing, I find it troubling that you think I did.

Now if Brown had hit him hard enough to cause real damage, and tried to take his weapon, and was coming back at the officer when the fatal shot was fired (all of which has been alleged but not proven), that's a very different story. So, as I've said already, if the facts come out supporting Brown, I'll be happy to see Ofc. Wilson put away. I'll even admit that I was wrong, as I've done before. I think it was even to you, Ken. But if the facts exonerate Wilson, are you willing to do the same?