RE: Rioting is the answer (Full Version)

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mnottertail -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/20/2014 11:17:45 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

You have that on good nutsacker authority or what? Get that from Issa or from Harry Gowdy?
Maybe he got it from the thug's mother who has gone on television stating that peace will not come until the officer is "tried and convicted". Not "given a trial and proved either guilty or innocent" BUT only when "convicted". Many black leaders back up this assertion. Last night, when a BLACK minister who has gone down to Ferguson to "work for peace and offer assistance to the family" was asked if his group would then be urging the New BLACK Panther Party to leave, sidestepped the question of counseling other, more violent elements to leave.





Exactly, then; from nutsackers, since Holder has not said or attempted anything of the sort, so it is just slobbering nutsackerism. Thanks for the tip.




Gauge -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/20/2014 12:29:03 PM)

Not sure if anyone saw this article:

http://news.yahoo.com/gov-nixon-calls-vigorous-prosecution-darren-wilson-041624592.html

I am so glad that due process only applies when we want it to.




subrosaDom -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/20/2014 12:36:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge

Not sure if anyone saw this article:

http://news.yahoo.com/gov-nixon-calls-vigorous-prosecution-darren-wilson-041624592.html

I am so glad that due process only applies when we want it to.


Yes, the Lieutenant Governor has told Nixon to stuff it. This Nixon is living up to his surname.

New report too that Wilson was badly, badly beaten and using journo-speak, a well-placed source means it's not a random person, but someone who knows -- of course, it could be 100% disinformation, too, but based on other reports, there's reason to believe it is valid. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/20/missouri-cop-was-badly-beaten-before-shooting-michael-brown-says-source/




PeonForHer -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/20/2014 12:48:47 PM)

FR

Is it just me, or do the powers that be that are involved in all this just *not seem to have a clue* how to deal with it? Right from the start, I've been astonished. Which intellectual giant thought it would be a good idea to have a police force that is 90% white to deal with a population that is 67% black?




mnottertail -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/20/2014 12:50:42 PM)

Yup, its Faux Nuze, we will wait till we see credible citations. But I tell you what, we havent heard everything because I know how you get those, and if the cop snatched me up by the collar and pulled me towards the car, he would be eating a fist sandwich.

So, the question is a little more complex here, and I do not doubt he hit the cop thru the window, and the gun went off as the cop was pulling it out in the car. Question is, was Brown defending himself from unreasonable search AND SEIZURE (as our constitution allows, or......................)




slvemike4u -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/20/2014 1:07:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

FR

Local St. Louis sources said Wilson suffered an “orbital blowout fracture to the eye socket.” This comes from a source within the Prosecuting Attorney’s office and confirmed by the St. Louis County Police.

A little better than the sourcing I had earlier. Not sure this is a sure thing yet.

At this point I think the integrity of both those sources are in question....hence the federal investigation.

Your right Holder will do his best to nail Wilson whether he is guilty or not.

Butch commented that no finding of innocence will be accepted just previous to this post .
Seems no finding of guilt will be accepted either [8|],no matter how true and documented.




CreativeDominant -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/20/2014 1:12:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Yup, its Faux Nuze, we will wait till we see credible citations. But I tell you what, we havent heard everything because I know how you get those, and if the cop snatched me up by the collar and pulled me towards the car, he would be eating a fist sandwich.

So, the question is a little more complex here, and I do not doubt he hit the cop thru the window, and the gun went off as the cop was pulling it out in the car. Question is, was Brown defending himself from unreasonable search AND SEIZURE (as our constitution allows, or......................)
So, the fact that it was the mother herself talked about on CNN and the preacher himself...saying the words right out of his mouth...carries no weight with you?

As you put it...there are questions as yet unanswered. I do notice that most of yours seem to come down in one of two categories: how wrong was this white cop? OR just how more right could this poor, BLACK kid have been?




mnottertail -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/20/2014 1:24:37 PM)

No, you don't 'seem' shit, you are too fuckin stupid. I will make my own positions. The mother and the preacher were not there to see if the hit was before or after the grab. Epic fail.




kdsub -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/20/2014 2:04:29 PM)

quote:

Swelling on the side of his face is not a broken eye socket dumbass


Yep those mosquitos are bad this time of year... or maybe he hit his head opening his car door... so anxious to shoot the kid you know.




kdsub -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/20/2014 2:06:14 PM)

quote:

Seems no finding of guilt will be accepted either ,no matter how true and documented.


Hey cool... then I can riot and loot... I need a new flat screen....oh wait...I'm almost white I forgot...I guess i will just have to accept that justice was done.

Hmmm come to think of it… along with my limey, Scandinavian, American Indian roots I’m part Jewish and west African …yea now I can riot no matter what.

Butch




CreativeDominant -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/20/2014 2:25:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

No, you don't 'seem' shit, you are too fuckin stupid. I will make my own positions. The mother and the preacher were not there to see if the hit was before or after the grab. Epic fail.

Stupid? Laughable coming from you. Especially given that those are the two positions you keep landing in.

As for the mother...you're right, she wasn't there. So, it's a bit early for her to be deciding that the cop is guilty, isn't it. As for the preacher, how the hell does him not being there have anything to do about him side-stepping the question of preaching peace and non-violence to the Black Panthers?




AQRMZ -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/20/2014 3:06:33 PM)

Ok we were asked to pass this around, http://stlouis.craigslist.org/rnr/4628934181.html (last sentence) so here it is, may make for some interesting pissing back and forth.
--------------------------
Missouri cop was savagely beaten before shooting Michael Brown


According to the well-placed source, Wilson was coming off another case in the neighborhood on Aug. 9 when he ordered Michael Brown and his friend Dorain Johnson to stop walking in the middle of the road because they were obstructing traffic. However, the confrontation quickly escalated into physical violence, the source said..

"They ignored him and the officer started to get out of the car to tell them to move," the source said. "They shoved him right back in, that's when Michael Brown leans in and starts beating Officer Wilson in the head and the face.

The source claims that there is "solid proof" ("The Assistant (Police Chief took him to the HOSPITAL -- ADDITIONAL CONFIRMING WITNESSES-DOCTORS, NURSES, ETC.. TO THE OFFICER'S INJURIES TREATED @ THE HOSPITAL WILL SURELY BE CALLED TO THE UPCOMING GRAND JURY. . ..., his face all swollen on one side," said the insider. "He was beaten very severely." ). . . that there was a struggle between Brown and Wilson for the policeman's firearm, resulting in the gun going off -- although it still remains unclear at this stage who pulled the trigger. Brown started to walk away according to the account, prompting Wilson to draw his gun and order him to freeze. Brown, the source said, raised his hands in the air, and turned around saying, "What, you're going to shoot me?"

At that point, the source notes, the 6 foot, 4 inch, 292-pound Brown charged Wilson, prompting the officer to fire at least six shots at him, including the fatal bullet that penetrated the top of Brown's skull, according to an independent autopsy conducted at the request of Brown's family.

Wilson suffered a fractured eye socket in the fracas, and was left dazed by the initial confrontation, the source said. He is now "traumatized, scared for his life and his family, injured and terrified" that a grand jury, which began hearing evidence on Wednesday, will "make some kind of example out of him," the source said.

The source also said the dashboard and body cameras, which might have recorded crucial evidence, had been ordered by Ferguson Police Chief Thomas Jackson, but had only recently arrived and had not yet been deployed.

St. Louis County police, who have taken over the investigation, did not return requests for comment about possible injuries suffered by Wilson.

Edward Magee, spokesman for St. Louis County Prosecutor Robert McCullough, said the office will not disclose the nature of the evidence it will reveal to a grand jury.

"We'll present every piece of evidence we have, witness statements, et cetera, to the grand jury, and we do not release any evidence or talk about evidence on the case."

Nabil Khattar, CEO of 7Star Industries -- which specializes in firearms training for law enforcement and special operations personnel -- confirmed that police are typically instructed to use deadly force if in imminent danger of being killed or suffering great bodily injury.

"You may engage a threat with enough force that is reasonably necessary to defend against that danger," he said.

Wilson is a six-year veteran of the Ferguson police force department, and has no prior disciplinary infringements.

Massive protests have since taken over the St. Louis community, prompting Missouri Gov. Jay Nixon last Thursday to place Highway Patrol Capt. Ron Johnson at the helm of security operations in an effort to calm ongoing tensions. The federal government is also investigating the death, and Attorney General Eric Holder has taken the lead -- calling "the selective release of sensitive information" in the case "troubling."

On Friday, Ferguson police released surveillance video showing Brown stealing cigars from a convenience store just before his death. Jackson came under intense criticism for disclosing the tape and a related police report as he also insisted that the alleged robbery and the encounter with Wilson were unrelated matters. Brown's family, through their attorney, suggested the tape's release was a strategic form of "character assassination."

However, the source insisted that there was absolutely no spin agenda behind the tape's release and that there were a number of Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) media requests filed by media outlets seeking it. Tom Jackson is said to have waited on publicly releasing it, and did not want it shown until Brown's grieving mother first had the chance to see it.

"He defied the FOIAs as long as he could," noted the insider. "A powerful, ugly spin has completely ruined public discourse on this whole situation......

INTERESTING BREAKING NEWS....... Please copy this and pass it around to all of your Ferguson Missouri friends, so they stop ruining the neighborhood. AND REMEMBER THIS WAS FROM A WELL PLACED SORCE.

OK READ THAT LAST SENTENCE AGAIN. PERMISSION TO COPY AND PASTE AND DISCIMINIATEALIZE.. ok piss on my spelling.

and did you all look at this one, just a little different perspective from a gentleman who should be listened to.
----------------------- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5f0mVn0HH6U#t=52
.
.
.
.





mnottertail -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/20/2014 3:24:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

No, you don't 'seem' shit, you are too fuckin stupid. I will make my own positions. The mother and the preacher were not there to see if the hit was before or after the grab. Epic fail.

Stupid? Laughable coming from you. Especially given that those are the two positions you keep landing in.

As for the mother...you're right, she wasn't there. So, it's a bit early for her to be deciding that the cop is guilty, isn't it. As for the preacher, how the hell does him not being there have anything to do about him side-stepping the question of preaching peace and non-violence to the Black Panthers?


I dont give the glimmer of a fuck about your imbecilic nutsackerisms, you drug me into a fuckin straw man you fucking cretin.

I said, they were not there to see if the punch came before or after the grab. Thats what I was commenting on, not what the fuck you are felching. The mother and the preacher were not there to see when the grab was, or the face was punched. Thats where I am speaking and whatever those people are saying about the black panthers I am not commenting on. Wake the fuck up. You look and are fucking stupid.




mnottertail -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/20/2014 3:30:01 PM)

@AQRMZ:

Craigslist Rants and Raves, when you absolutely positively have to have laser like precise journalistic researched credible citations of facts.

Oh; joy; rapture...




AQRMZ -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/20/2014 3:36:30 PM)

thanks kknottedtale, I see you got the message, and that is from St.Louis where they really care not Micghicean where they let anybody run a puawnshlop.




Politesub53 -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/20/2014 3:43:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SeekingTrinity

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: SeekingTrinity

isn't Wilson just as innocent until he is proven guilty of a crime beyond a reasonable doubt? Or do we just say "fuck it," convict him based only on the court of public opinion without any sort of investigation, and then execute him right there in the streets of Ferguson?

Well I think if you look around, some people's answer is evident.

K.




If "innocent until he is proven guilty " was a bar to being arrested you two might actually have a point.
But it isn't and never has been....plenty of innocent folks have had to endure and suffer the indignities of an arrest.


Quite true. But to even get to an arrest position, a completed investigation to submit to the DA needs to happen. No two ways about it...that takes time. But people are screaming for him to be arrested RIGHT NOW, rather than awaiting an investigation or even Grand Jury decision.


So shouldnt Brown have had those same rights, before being shot, or am I just being biased ?




cloudboy -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/20/2014 3:52:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

Is it just me, or do the powers that be that are involved in all this just *not seem to have a clue* how to deal with it? Right from the start, I've been astonished. Which intellectual giant thought it would be a good idea to have a police force that is 90% white to deal with a population that is 67% black?


Your figures are off. The police force is 95% white. When I quoted the numbers to my wife, the first words out of her mouth were "institutional racism."

>With primarily white police forces that rely disproportionately on traffic citation revenue, blacks are pulled over, cited and arrested in numbers far exceeding their population share, according to a recent report from Missouri’s attorney general. In Ferguson last year, 86 percent of stops, 92 percent of searches and 93 percent of arrests were of black people — despite the fact that police officers were far less likely to find contraband on black drivers (22 percent versus 34 percent of whites). This worsens inequality, as struggling blacks do more to fund local government than relatively affluent whites. <

To be race neutral for second -- police forces that rely on "citation revenue" always tend to aggravate the local population. Nothing pisses me off more or gets me more aggravated than traffic stops and tickets for stupid, minor violations in the name of "public safety." Instead of being public servants, the police get transformed into public hasslelers.

The riots are a symptom. Langston Hughes once wrote, "What happens to a dream deferred?"




AQRMZ -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/20/2014 4:06:05 PM)

Not in reply to anybody, although if you are in Florida, you might take note.

Now here is a good man getting stuff out there. check it out and be glad there are guys like him. I hope he stays safe.


Play video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5f0mVn0HH6U#t=52


Johnathan Gentry's epic Facebook rant against Al Sharpton and the Ferguson, Missouri rioters and looters, as broken by TopRightNews.com on August 12.




cloudboy -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/20/2014 4:11:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge

Not sure if anyone saw this article:

http://news.yahoo.com/gov-nixon-calls-vigorous-prosecution-darren-wilson-041624592.html

I am so glad that due process only applies when we want it to.


I know you have been an advocate for the process, which under the circumstances makes you look on the side of the police. I posted this earlier:

Police officers have the authority to use deadly force when it is reasonable and necessary and usually are not second-guessed. Experts could not think of a case when an officer accused of misusing deadly force was arrested at the scene.

“Police are not usually indicted for this,” said David Harris, an expert on policing at Pitt Law School. “In the majority (perhaps great majority of cases), shootings by officers are found to be justified. Officers do have the power to use force, even deadly force, when reasonable and necessary in the performance of their duties, so they get the legal benefit of the doubt.”


The above shows a kind of impunity when Police officers use deadly force. (Great majority of cases the police can't even be indicted.) If Wilson walks away from this in total innocence, it suggests that the police are exempt from the legal standards an average citizen would face. My other takeaway is that if a trained police officer misuses a firearm in self defense -- the average gun-owner is likely to exercise even worse judgement.

Earlier, I put my tent pole down on GUARANTEED EXCESSIVE FORCE. After reading the above, I'm thinking I might swing and miss here.

People naturally side with the police. Combine that here with the victim's theft of cigars, jaywalking, size, and race -- the legal system looks stacked in favor of the police.




SeekingTrinity -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/20/2014 4:24:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: SeekingTrinity

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: SeekingTrinity

isn't Wilson just as innocent until he is proven guilty of a crime beyond a reasonable doubt? Or do we just say "fuck it," convict him based only on the court of public opinion without any sort of investigation, and then execute him right there in the streets of Ferguson?

Well I think if you look around, some people's answer is evident.

K.




If "innocent until he is proven guilty " was a bar to being arrested you two might actually have a point.
But it isn't and never has been....plenty of innocent folks have had to endure and suffer the indignities of an arrest.


Quite true. But to even get to an arrest position, a completed investigation to submit to the DA needs to happen. No two ways about it...that takes time. But people are screaming for him to be arrested RIGHT NOW, rather than awaiting an investigation or even Grand Jury decision.


So shouldnt Brown have had those same rights, before being shot, or am I just being biased ?



Depends on whether or not you feel Brown should not have been shot regardless of what he might or might not have done. States have deadly use of force statutes for a reason. I personally am awaiting the results of the investigation before making up my mind one way or the other on either Brown or Wilson. It might be that Wilson's use of deadly force was determined to be justified or he will be found to have violated Missouri law. Until then, no one can really say with certainty.




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