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ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

You ain't got the sense to pour the piss out of your boot, Ken. Do you know how much better this whole forum would be if your daddy had just jerked off that night?

Police unions protect bad cops. They prevent a new police chief from cleaning house, and getting a department that looks like the community they serve, as the Ferguson chief has said he was trying to do. You're all in favor of change, right up to the moment that change might not fit your idiotic talking points.

You sicken me.

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The police chief you're singing the praises of has a history of supporting bad cops and was brought in to run a force that fills the city coffers by writing bogus tickets. He wasn't supposed to change dick and he didn't try and his claims are bullshit and that you believed his crap is hilarious.

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ORIGINAL: Gauge

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ORIGINAL: DomKen
No. He was not. Brown was not in arms reach when he was shot. The lack of gunpowder residue proves that. Wilson fired long before he had to even if Brown was actually attacking him and shouldn't have fired at him at all once he turned back. He should have subued him using non lethal techniques as called for by law.

From an article posted on ABC news, link to follow:

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The absence of gunpowder on Mr Brown's body indicated that the muzzle of the gun could have been as close as a foot or two away, or up to 30 feet away, he added.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-19/private-autopsy-finds-michael-brown-shot-six-times/5679864

So, tell me something Ken, in your expert opinion, citing the same report... how do you explain the fact that he could have been as close as a foot away and as far as 30 feet away? I don't know about your arms, but mine reach a bit further than 12".

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

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ORIGINAL: Gauge

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

He shot Brown at such a distance that the fatal wound had no powder residue so he was in imminent danger when he fired.

Please cite a credible source for this statement.

He can't, because it doesn't exist. As I've already pointed out, drop-off for pistol residue is around 3 feet. So Brown could have been as close as 37" and still not gotten any residue around the wound. He keeps saying "the independent autopsy report", but amazingly enough, it says no such thing. As a matter of fact, that very report states that Brown could have been charging head down when he received the fatal wound. But Ken, if I'm wrong, please show us where exactly the report states that the officer was in absolutely no danger. Or are you the one who's full of shit now?

Gunshot residue from a 9 mm can be deposited up to 5 feet away and 3 feet is beyond arms reach so yes that does mean the officer shot before he was in physical danger. Anyway we also have the videos of the scene that show the location of the body and the officers car that show that Brown was quite a distance away from the police vehicle when he was killed. The witnesses all say Wilson got out and simply shot at Brown so the location of the vehicle is a good approximation for his location when he was firing and it is more like 20 feet from Brown.

Your definition of being in danger is silly, Wilson was already injured and whether you like it or not could easily have ended up dead if he followed your advice.

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ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

You've already refused to believe the facts so I know you won't accept them. If Brown had powder burns on the lethal wound then Wilson might have an argument but there isn't so Wilson shot him at a distance so even if you are arguing that he was in danger he shot him before the danger was imminent. So you are full of shit.

The DA has already refused to prosecute other cops who killed unarmed men several times before. He has publicly said he won't ever do so. The guy's entire family are cops and his father was a cop killed in the line of duty. No one sane thinks he is unbiased.

Ok, once again, quit fucking lying and telling me what I think. I've said repeatedly that if the facts are against him, I'll happily see Wilson in prison. You're the one who is making proclamations about his absolute guilt, and already setting the stage for you to claim that you're still not wrong if he's acquitted or not charged.

Three feet is "at a distance"? Because that's how close he could have been and still not gotten any powder residue around the wound. I'm 5'10" and have a reach of 27". So he'd almost be in my reach, much less someone who's 6'3" tall.

By the way, love how you keep using those cute little debating tricks to make yourself look like the only reasonable one. Insisting that I'm the one who refuses to accept facts, when in your last post you admitted outright that you're already sure he's guilty and will continue to believe so regardless of what else happens.

I also love how you completely dodged the other question. You know, the one that shows what a biased prick you are.

The facts are against him. You just refuse to believe them. You need to check some more you can get powder residue out to 5 feet from a 9mm pistol. The problem is there isn't enough at that distance to be useful in determining distance and angle and that stuff. But no residue at all means the shot was fired from quite a distance.

And the fact that you are resorting to ad hominem? If you want to move into the same loser category as bama fine I'll treat you that way.

I'm sorry that you are too fucking stupid to remain calm during a discussion just because you are losing the debate. Maybe in the future you'll grow up and gain greater control over your temper.

Ahhh, and little Kenny is trying to play his games again. Funny how the only ad hominem attacks you recognize are when others insult you. You routinely try these ridiculous debate games to make yourself look rational and those you're arguing with not. You insult, degrade and belittle, then act insulted if anyone dares to return the favor. You're the one who has stated outright that Wilson is guilty, without all the facts being in. You've stated that every shooter that's been discussed on here is guilty. (Or at least every one I've read.) Oh, all except one. That one you keep avoiding, because it's the only one I've ever seen you say was justified, and it's the only one with a black officer and a white suspect. So yes Ken, I'm saying that you're a biased prick.

I'm not angry. You're not worth my time getting angry about. It's just that I used to have a modicum of respect for you, now I have none.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

Gunshot residue from a 9 mm can be deposited up to 5 feet away and 3 feet is beyond arms reach so yes that does mean the officer shot before he was in physical danger. Anyway we also have the videos of the scene that show the location of the body and the officers car that show that Brown was quite a distance away from the police vehicle when he was killed. The witnesses all say Wilson got out and simply shot at Brown so the location of the vehicle is a good approximation for his location when he was firing and it is more like 20 feet from Brown.

Three feet is beyond arm's reach? Boy, you must have stubby little baby arms Ken. Mine are just shy of 3 feet long, (27" finger-tip to shoulder) and I'm not 6'3". Is Brown's nick-name T-Rex? If not, I'll bet he's got arms that are right about 3 feet long. From a dead stop, with a stepping (1/2 step) punch, my reach is right about 48", with a full step it's 59" (Only an inch less then that 5' you're claiming). That isn't even considering someone charging or lunging.


Actually the witness reports say that Wilson pursued Brown/Johnson away from the vehicle, not that he was standing right where it was parked. Swing and a miss again.

Check the witness reports again. They said Wilson got out of the car and began chasing and fired several shots and then Brown stopped and so did Wilson so Wilson never got far from his car.
http://www.theroot.com/articles/culture/2014/08/_5_eyewitness_accounts_of_michael_brown_s_shooting.html

And as always you seem to think the cop had no choice but to stand still and wait for a guy with his head down to rush him. Try that on a cop sometime. I dare you.

It will get you shot, particularly if you have already given him a sever beating.

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

Ahhh, and little Kenny is trying to play his games again. Funny how the only ad hominem attacks you recognize are when others insult you. You routinely try these ridiculous debate games to make yourself look rational and those you're arguing with not. You insult, degrade and belittle, then act insulted if anyone dares to return the favor. You're the one who has stated outright that Wilson is guilty, without all the facts being in. You've stated that every shooter that's been discussed on here is guilty. (Or at least every one I've read.) Oh, all except one. That one you keep avoiding, because it's the only one I've ever seen you say was justified, and it's the only one with a black officer and a white suspect. So yes Ken, I'm saying that you're a biased prick.

I'm not angry. You're not worth my time getting angry about. It's just that I used to have a modicum of respect for you, now I have none.

look idiot, I treat others exactly as they treat me. You had previously been polite so you got polite. Now you get the full rude. I'm sorry you are too fucking stupid to understand such a simple concept.

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ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

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ORIGINAL: DomKen
You hide out in the high desert away from the real world hoping the scary brown people and poor people won't come and do something to you. It's too bad you don't have the balls to actually live and enjoy life.

What? Living life means being crammed into a little shitbox in the LA basin, stacked like cordwood, and sucking filthy air? I like a big house, and a big yard for my dogs, and commuting at 70(ish) miles an hour. Enjoying life is drinking my coffee out on the deck, watching the sun rise against a giant horizon, and not worrying about the neighbors misunderstanding the wife's cries through the thin fucking walls and siccing the cops on us. YMMV.

We do have a problem with LA dumping their problems up here, from abandoned pets, to the welfare lifers that ran us out of our old neighborhood, to a really horrific serial rapist that showed up about a month ago. All colors. I have no idea what color the guy the cops took out of my old back yard was (thank God the dog wasn't out or the cops would have shot him), and I never did care. The majority on the new street are veterans. The ethnic mix looks like America.

Funny thing though. The most crime infested place I ever lived was an apt. complex in the Portland area, about 20 years back. The place was whiter than sugar on rice. I didn't need a TV, because I could open the curtains and it was Rescue 911 all day, and Cops all night. Back in the day, it was okay.

Don't think you know me, dude.

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ORIGINAL: AQRMZ

Not in reply to anyone, if it fits ok if not so what.

ok piss on this one for a while:

>
> Michael Brown's rap sheet from 2013 on Casenet. Note that he also has a juvenile criminal record that is sealed.
>
> Description:
> Burglary - 1st Degree {Felony B RSMo: 569.160 Code: 1401000 OCN: AJ006207
> Arresting Agency: ST ANN PD
>
> Description:
> Armed Criminal Action {Felony Unclassified RSMo: 571.015} Code: 3101000 OCN:
> AJ006207 Arresting Agency: ST ANN PD
>
> Description:
> Assault 1st Degree - Serious Physical Injury {Felony A RSMo: 565.050} Code: 1301100 OCN: AJ006207 Arresting Agency: ST ANN PD
>
> Description:
> Armed Criminal Action {Felony Unclassified RSMo: 571.015} Code: 3101000 OCN:
> AJ006207 Arresting Agency: ST ANN PD
This is the good guy that shows on TV and was just in the middle of the street cause he needed the space for his 300# lard ass.

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ORIGINAL: AQRMZ

thanks kknottedtale, I see you got the message, and that is from St.Louis where they really care not Micghicean where they let anybody run a puawnshlop.

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ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

Ahhh, and little Kenny is trying to play his games again. Funny how the only ad hominem attacks you recognize are when others insult you. You routinely try these ridiculous debate games to make yourself look rational and those you're arguing with not. You insult, degrade and belittle, then act insulted if anyone dares to return the favor. You're the one who has stated outright that Wilson is guilty, without all the facts being in. You've stated that every shooter that's been discussed on here is guilty. (Or at least every one I've read.) Oh, all except one. That one you keep avoiding, because it's the only one I've ever seen you say was justified, and it's the only one with a black officer and a white suspect. So yes Ken, I'm saying that you're a biased prick.

I'm not angry. You're not worth my time getting angry about. It's just that I used to have a modicum of respect for you, now I have none.

look idiot, I treat others exactly as they treat me. You had previously been polite so you got polite. Now you get the full rude. I'm sorry you are too fucking stupid to understand such a simple concept.

Ahhh, I see. Your version of "polite" includes telling someone that they're full of shit. Stupid. Insisting that they're too bigoted to accept "facts". Sure, I see that now. And you got back exactly what you put out, you biased prick. If you don't want to be talked to like you're an asshole, stop treating other people as if they are. It's that simple Ken. I was being polite to you, till you insulted me more then I felt was reasonable. Then you started getting not polite. Again, funny how you only see insults when they're coming at you, not when you're giving them.

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ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

Real experts, not Ken, say that if a man with a knife is within ten yards you will most likely to get cut even if you shot him once he starts the charge.
Way back when I went to school 10 yards = 30 feet so 30 feet is the margin for imminent danger.

Hey Bama, I hate to disagree with you. Especially when you're arguing with Ken, since he uses the slightest error to then invalidate an entire post, but I think you might be off on this one. (I particularly loved his 'definition of "most"' rants from a week or so ago.)

I've always heard this a bit differently. I believe what you're thinking of is the 21' rule. It was coined by Dennis Tueller, a police Sergeant, back in the 80s. It basically says that an average healthy male can cover 7 yards in 1.5 seconds. An acceptable time, with training, to draw and fire two center mass shots is 1.5 seconds. So if an attacker is less then 21' away, he'll most likely be able to harm you before you have time to take him down. Tueller established this 21' as a "danger zone" where he felt it was reasonable to engage a hostile opponent.

Mythbusters did an episode about this a year or two ago I believe. They found that at 20' the person with a gun was able to shot the attacker just as he reached them. (Leaving no room for error though.) Under 20, the attacker was able to stab before getting shot.

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

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ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

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ORIGINAL: Gauge

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ORIGINAL: DomKen

He shot Brown at such a distance that the fatal wound had no powder residue so he was in imminent danger when he fired.

Please cite a credible source for this statement.

He can't, because it doesn't exist. As I've already pointed out, drop-off for pistol residue is around 3 feet. So Brown could have been as close as 37" and still not gotten any residue around the wound. He keeps saying "the independent autopsy report", but amazingly enough, it says no such thing. As a matter of fact, that very report states that Brown could have been charging head down when he received the fatal wound. But Ken, if I'm wrong, please show us where exactly the report states that the officer was in absolutely no danger. Or are you the one who's full of shit now?

Gunshot residue from a 9 mm can be deposited up to 5 feet away and 3 feet is beyond arms reach so yes that does mean the officer shot before he was in physical danger. Anyway we also have the videos of the scene that show the location of the body and the officers car that show that Brown was quite a distance away from the police vehicle when he was killed. The witnesses all say Wilson got out and simply shot at Brown so the location of the vehicle is a good approximation for his location when he was firing and it is more like 20 feet from Brown.

Your definition of being in danger is silly, Wilson was already injured and whether you like it or not could easily have ended up dead if he followed your advice.

My definition is the law's definition. You have to be in in imminent danger of grave bodily harm or death before you can use deadly force. You should know that if you carry a gun.