quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

They have military gear but no personal cameras....I am sure they have tasers. I know they had personal cameras, not distributed, which seems rather lame. It aint much to clip them on like their little ties and flip the switch on.

Dont know what that holdup was. Would have been all over at the outset. So, the Sheriff or Chief got his own issue.

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ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

You want to cry. That is too fucking bad. I tried polite. Go back and look. I may have attacked your ideas, which truly are poorly thought out and parochial, but never you until you attacked me. I'm truly sorry that this concept is too hard for you to understand. Grow up or at least calm down. Getting upset over an internet thread is pretty fucking pointless.

You're the only one crying Ken.

You still don't get it, I'm not upset. I'm having fun watching you dance. When that loses it's appeal, I'll stop bothering. Till then, dance little bitch.

And you're still avoiding that other shooting I keep asking you about. But that's ok, everyone here saw you call it justified. Unarmed suspect. Sitting in his car. Not fleeing, and even if he was no felony involved. Cop "thought he was reaching", and shot him dead. But the DA wouldn't indict, so you said it was a good shooting. Funny, every other time a DA won't indict, it's a cover-up. Only difference this time, black cop, white suspect. But you're not biased, nah, not you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

They have military gear but no personal cameras....I am sure they have tasers. I know they had personal cameras, not distributed, which seems rather lame. It aint much to clip them on like their little ties and flip the switch on.

Dont know what that holdup was. Would have been all over at the outset. So, the Sheriff or Chief got his own issue.

I was really watching the video for the Powell shooting, out of the dozen or so police, I saw two tasers. The two who had them, they were clear as day, none of the others did, and that included the two who arrived first. I couldn't get a clear enough look at rank, but both of the officers with tasers arrived later. I wouldn't be surprised to learn they were both Sergeants. And tasers don't always work, a bean-bag to the chest damn near always does! Can't breath, can't fight. (That would be police procedure care of The Karate Kid II)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

That is not a direct quote and I can pretty much guarantee that no pathologist said gunpowder residue wouldn't be deposited at 1 foot. Find the actual quote and then maybe you'll have something.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

They have military gear but no personal cameras....I am sure they have tasers. I know they had personal cameras, not distributed, which seems rather lame. It aint much to clip them on like their little ties and flip the switch on.

Dont know what that holdup was. Would have been all over at the outset. So, the Sheriff or Chief got his own issue.

I was really watching the video for the Powell shooting, out of the dozen or so police, I saw two tasers. The two who had them, they were clear as day, none of the others did, and that included the two who arrived first. I couldn't get a clear enough look at rank, but both of the officers with tasers arrived later. I wouldn't be surprised to learn they were both Sergeants. And tasers don't always work, a bean-bag to the chest damn near always does! Can't breath, can't fight. (That would be police procedure care of The Karate Kid II)

All the less lethal weapons work its' just how often do they actually still kill. I know that last year there was a bean bag fatality in the Chicago area.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-07-28/news/chi-autopsy-bean-bag-rounds-fired-by-police-killed-park-forest-man-95-20130728_1_park-forest-man-metal-cane-bean-bag-rounds

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

They have military gear but no personal cameras....I am sure they have tasers. I know they had personal cameras, not distributed, which seems rather lame. It aint much to clip them on like their little ties and flip the switch on.

Dont know what that holdup was. Would have been all over at the outset. So, the Sheriff or Chief got his own issue.

I was really watching the video for the Powell shooting, out of the dozen or so police, I saw two tasers. The two who had them, they were clear as day, none of the others did, and that included the two who arrived first. I couldn't get a clear enough look at rank, but both of the officers with tasers arrived later. I wouldn't be surprised to learn they were both Sergeants. And tasers don't always work, a bean-bag to the chest damn near always does! Can't breath, can't fight. (That would be police procedure care of The Karate Kid II)

All the less lethal weapons work its' just how often do they actually still kill. I know that last year there was a bean bag fatality in the Chicago area.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-07-28/news/chi-autopsy-bean-bag-rounds-fired-by-police-killed-park-forest-man-95-20130728_1_park-forest-man-metal-cane-bean-bag-rounds

Well sure, something like a bean bag can still kill, no argument there at all. It's kind of like getting hit with a major-league fast-ball, it can break bones, crack ribs, etc. But until someone can come up with something that's guaranteed non-lethal that works consistently, it's less-than-lethal or a bullet. As long as police depts. keep getting sued by the relatives of someone they tried to avoid killing by using less-than-lethal means, then they have very little incentive to not just use bullets. (Also just my opinion)

Pepper spray works ok, but it isn't instant, doesn't stop everyone, and can kill in rare cases. Tasers work more often, but can still kill. Bean-bags are probably the most effective at stopping someone in their tracks, but they're more likely to kill then either of the other two.

I don't know if anyone's done a study on how often bean-bag rounds kill, but I'd say it's likely that Brown and Powell would probably both still be alive (maybe laying in the hospital with broken ribs, but alive) if the officers had used them. (That is just an opinion, I don't know for sure one way or the other.)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

As long as police depts. keep getting sued by the relatives of someone they tried to avoid killing by using less-than-lethal means, then they have very little incentive to not just use bullets. (Also just my opinion)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

They have military gear but no personal cameras....I am sure they have tasers. I know they had personal cameras, not distributed, which seems rather lame. It aint much to clip them on like their little ties and flip the switch on.

Dont know what that holdup was. Would have been all over at the outset. So, the Sheriff or Chief got his own issue.

I was really watching the video for the Powell shooting, out of the dozen or so police, I saw two tasers. The two who had them, they were clear as day, none of the others did, and that included the two who arrived first. I couldn't get a clear enough look at rank, but both of the officers with tasers arrived later. I wouldn't be surprised to learn they were both Sergeants. And tasers don't always work, a bean-bag to the chest damn near always does! Can't breath, can't fight. (That would be police procedure care of The Karate Kid II)

All the less lethal weapons work its' just how often do they actually still kill. I know that last year there was a bean bag fatality in the Chicago area.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-07-28/news/chi-autopsy-bean-bag-rounds-fired-by-police-killed-park-forest-man-95-20130728_1_park-forest-man-metal-cane-bean-bag-rounds

Well sure, something like a bean bag can still kill, no argument there at all. It's kind of like getting hit with a major-league fast-ball, it can break bones, crack ribs, etc. But until someone can come up with something that's guaranteed non-lethal that works consistently, it's less-than-lethal or a bullet. As long as police depts. keep getting sued by the relatives of someone they tried to avoid killing by using less-than-lethal means, then they have very little incentive to not just use bullets. (Also just my opinion)

Pepper spray works ok, but it isn't instant, doesn't stop everyone, and can kill in rare cases. Tasers work more often, but can still kill. Bean-bags are probably the most effective at stopping someone in their tracks, but they're more likely to kill then either of the other two.

I don't know if anyone's done a study on how often bean-bag rounds kill, but I'd say it's likely that Brown and Powell would probably both still be alive (maybe laying in the hospital with broken ribs, but alive) if the officers had used them. (That is just an opinion, I don't know for sure one way or the other.)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SeekingTrinity

~FRing it~

This brings a good point of discussion. People (not necessarily here) were screaming because less-than-lethal options were not utilized in a lot of deadly force shootings. Yet taser use and bean bag rounds have caused deaths as well. So what are police officers honestly supposed to do if they face situations where weapons of any sort have to be utilized? To me, it kind of seems like "damned if you do, damned if you don't" because even things that are designed to be less lethal options have proven to be lethal in some cases.

Do police try to reason with people who may not be reasonable and pose a threat to the officer or other citizens? Just let the subject kick the shit out of them and hope it doesn't injure them too badly or kill them? Not do their job by just walking away from someone who is that highly escalated? Are you as taxpayers willing to foot the bill as far as higher salaries for police officers to let themselves become human punching bags? Are you willing to live in a world with inadequate police protection because who in their right mind would sign on for low pay AND being a human punching bag?

I'm asking this not to be a smartass, but rather because Im genuinely interested in hearing the thoughts of those who are on both sides

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

They have military gear but no personal cameras....I am sure they have tasers. I know they had personal cameras, not distributed, which seems rather lame. It aint much to clip them on like their little ties and flip the switch on.

Dont know what that holdup was. Would have been all over at the outset. So, the Sheriff or Chief got his own issue.

I was really watching the video for the Powell shooting, out of the dozen or so police, I saw two tasers. The two who had them, they were clear as day, none of the others did, and that included the two who arrived first. I couldn't get a clear enough look at rank, but both of the officers with tasers arrived later. I wouldn't be surprised to learn they were both Sergeants. And tasers don't always work, a bean-bag to the chest damn near always does! Can't breath, can't fight. (That would be police procedure care of The Karate Kid II)

All the less lethal weapons work its' just how often do they actually still kill. I know that last year there was a bean bag fatality in the Chicago area.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-07-28/news/chi-autopsy-bean-bag-rounds-fired-by-police-killed-park-forest-man-95-20130728_1_park-forest-man-metal-cane-bean-bag-rounds

Well sure, something like a bean bag can still kill, no argument there at all. It's kind of like getting hit with a major-league fast-ball, it can break bones, crack ribs, etc. But until someone can come up with something that's guaranteed non-lethal that works consistently, it's less-than-lethal or a bullet. As long as police depts. keep getting sued by the relatives of someone they tried to avoid killing by using less-than-lethal means, then they have very little incentive to not just use bullets. (Also just my opinion)

Pepper spray works ok, but it isn't instant, doesn't stop everyone, and can kill in rare cases. Tasers work more often, but can still kill. Bean-bags are probably the most effective at stopping someone in their tracks, but they're more likely to kill then either of the other two.

I don't know if anyone's done a study on how often bean-bag rounds kill, but I'd say it's likely that Brown and Powell would probably both still be alive (maybe laying in the hospital with broken ribs, but alive) if the officers had used them. (That is just an opinion, I don't know for sure one way or the other.)

A logistic problem with bean bags is that they have too much mass to use in a handgun, or for that matter a rifle, so officers would have to carry a shotgun with them all the time. Other than that I agree they are more dependable than other non lethal weapons.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

They have military gear but no personal cameras....I am sure they have tasers. I know they had personal cameras, not distributed, which seems rather lame. It aint much to clip them on like their little ties and flip the switch on.

Dont know what that holdup was. Would have been all over at the outset. So, the Sheriff or Chief got his own issue.

I was really watching the video for the Powell shooting, out of the dozen or so police, I saw two tasers. The two who had them, they were clear as day, none of the others did, and that included the two who arrived first. I couldn't get a clear enough look at rank, but both of the officers with tasers arrived later. I wouldn't be surprised to learn they were both Sergeants. And tasers don't always work, a bean-bag to the chest damn near always does! Can't breath, can't fight. (That would be police procedure care of The Karate Kid II)

All the less lethal weapons work its' just how often do they actually still kill. I know that last year there was a bean bag fatality in the Chicago area.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-07-28/news/chi-autopsy-bean-bag-rounds-fired-by-police-killed-park-forest-man-95-20130728_1_park-forest-man-metal-cane-bean-bag-rounds

Well sure, something like a bean bag can still kill, no argument there at all. It's kind of like getting hit with a major-league fast-ball, it can break bones, crack ribs, etc. But until someone can come up with something that's guaranteed non-lethal that works consistently, it's less-than-lethal or a bullet. As long as police depts. keep getting sued by the relatives of someone they tried to avoid killing by using less-than-lethal means, then they have very little incentive to not just use bullets. (Also just my opinion)

Pepper spray works ok, but it isn't instant, doesn't stop everyone, and can kill in rare cases. Tasers work more often, but can still kill. Bean-bags are probably the most effective at stopping someone in their tracks, but they're more likely to kill then either of the other two.

I don't know if anyone's done a study on how often bean-bag rounds kill, but I'd say it's likely that Brown and Powell would probably both still be alive (maybe laying in the hospital with broken ribs, but alive) if the officers had used them. (That is just an opinion, I don't know for sure one way or the other.)

A logistic problem with bean bags is that they have too much mass to use in a handgun, or for that matter a rifle, so officers would have to carry a shotgun with them all the time. Other than that I agree they are more dependable than other non lethal weapons.

Hmmm, I was thinking about in cars, but you're right if they suddenly needed it and it was left behind, they're screwed. I wonder if it's possible to make one that could be used in something like a flare gun? Small enough to wear on a belt, not too heavy with a few extra rounds. The bean-bags might have to be redesigned to act like low powered cartridges, like in a 40mm grenade casing. Hard to say.

quote:

WTF? Did you even look at the stats? Whites were caught breaking the law far more often in Ferguson despite blacks being pulled over far more often.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge

This is a fast reply.

Anything that is powerful enough to stop another human being in their tracks is likely to have the power to kill them. I doubt that there will ever be something, in my lifetime anyway, that will be able to stop someone cold without killing them or causing serious injury.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Ken you have been using the mothers hired pathologist... what about THIS.

It turns out he is not even a forensic pathologist.

Now the results may be valid because of the other pathologists... but it is creepy that a shyster was allowed to touch the body.

Butch

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ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

WTF? Did you even look at the stats? Whites were caught breaking the law far more often in Ferguson despite blacks being pulled over far more often.

Yes and you don't read what I say... Let me say it again... Blacks commit more crime... they SHOULD be pulled over more in suspicious situations... if they are not the police are not doing their jobs... If in an area where whites commit more crime... they should be pulled over more.

What you failed to read and understand... it the pull overs in Ferguson are LOWER than the state average and LOWER then the US average.

Searches is what you are talking about where whites buying drugs from pushers are more likely to have contraband when searched than blacks when searched.

Butch