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RE: Another poitless gun death. - 8/29/2014 6:09:05 AM   
quizzicalkitten


Posts: 312
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

We have drawn the line at the age of majority for most things as being 18. Not perfect, I know. For more dangerous things, alcohol, handgun ownership and so on, the bar is set at 21.

Imperfect, but sort of where we are cooking our beans these days.


Incorrect you can buy a gun from a private seller in the majority of states at 18.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 261
RE: Another poitless gun death. - 8/29/2014 6:21:37 AM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: quizzicalkitten


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

We have drawn the line at the age of majority for most things as being 18. Not perfect, I know. For more dangerous things, alcohol, handgun ownership and so on, the bar is set at 21.

Imperfect, but sort of where we are cooking our beans these days.


Incorrect you can buy a gun from a private seller in the majority of states at 18.

Tweak posed the question of laws to stop children being 'exposed' to such weapons, not the owning of them.
I interpret that as keeping kids completely away from such items (like tobacco & booze etc) and that would include the teaching/handling of weapons until they reached the designated age.

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Profile   Post #: 262
RE: Another poitless gun death. - 8/29/2014 6:34:10 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		Ron also designated it as a handgun, not "any gun"

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Profile   Post #: 263
RE: Another poitless gun death. - 8/29/2014 6:44:19 AM   
quizzicalkitten


Posts: 312
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Ron also designated it as a handgun, not "any gun"


Hand guns as well as rifles can be purchased at 18 from a private seller in 38 states... which makes what Ron said false... Hence the correction..

Try some coffee or some shit because your getting tiresome to explain to.

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 264
RE: Another poitless gun death. - 8/29/2014 6:45:49 AM   
subrob1967


Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: quizzicalkitten


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

We have drawn the line at the age of majority for most things as being 18. Not perfect, I know. For more dangerous things, alcohol, handgun ownership and so on, the bar is set at 21.

Imperfect, but sort of where we are cooking our beans these days.


Incorrect you can buy a gun from a private seller in the majority of states at 18.


Incorrect, you can buy a RIFLE OR SHOTGUN from a private seller at 18. You need to be 21 to legally buy a pistol, everywhere.

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Profile   Post #: 265
RE: Another poitless gun death. - 8/29/2014 6:49:20 AM   
quizzicalkitten


Posts: 312
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: quizzicalkitten


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

We have drawn the line at the age of majority for most things as being 18. Not perfect, I know. For more dangerous things, alcohol, handgun ownership and so on, the bar is set at 21.

Imperfect, but sort of where we are cooking our beans these days.


Incorrect you can buy a gun from a private seller in the majority of states at 18.

Tweak posed the question of laws to stop children being 'exposed' to such weapons, not the owning of them.
I interpret that as keeping kids completely away from such items (like tobacco & booze etc) and that would include the teaching/handling of weapons until they reached the designated age.


And I think such a law would be stupid and not do anything to actually help the problem. Kids still drink under age they still smoke underage and they still drive cars underage the laws haven't prevented this from happening or deaths from occurring because of this happening. Why put in place a law that's inneffective and not going to prevent the perceived problem from happening.

Instead charge the parents that are being careless with child endangerment and the rate of kids playing with harmful things be it guns knives bug spray a bathtub will drop.

Instead of placing the blame on the parents where it's deserved your placing the blame on guns. Place the blame where the blame is deserved Don't use the tool as the excuse.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 266
RE: Another poitless gun death. - 8/29/2014 6:50:47 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		I havent and dont usually respond to your dumbarse posts....
Im not going to try and make sense of your stupid shit, except to say that private sellers can get you anything, legal or illegal. Legal sellers not so much, and RON is a legal seller.
He might be a private one too, thats not my issue.


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(in reply to quizzicalkitten)
Profile   Post #: 267
RE: Another poitless gun death. - 8/29/2014 6:51:04 AM   
quizzicalkitten


Posts: 312
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967


quote:

ORIGINAL: quizzicalkitten


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

We have drawn the line at the age of majority for most things as being 18. Not perfect, I know. For more dangerous things, alcohol, handgun ownership and so on, the bar is set at 21.

Imperfect, but sort of where we are cooking our beans these days.


Incorrect you can buy a gun from a private seller in the majority of states at 18.


Incorrect, you can buy a RIFLE OR SHOTGUN from a private seller at 18. You need to be 21 to legally buy a pistol, everywhere.


Incorrect

http://www.salon.com/2013/02/05/18_year_olds_can_buy_handguns/

(in reply to subrob1967)
Profile   Post #: 268
RE: Another poitless gun death. - 8/29/2014 6:51:56 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Show me that from a credible source, because pursuant to federal law, you must be 21 years old to purchase a handgun.

Now, there is the loophole that 18 may possess a handgun, but may not purchase it or otherwise own it. Thats part of the trouble with these private sales, and gunshow sales where they dont have to notify ATF. What they are doing is illegal, that kid offs someone, and the seller is afforded the opportunity to go for the 10 years down to the square dance in the common eating area, with ribbons in their hair, same as the kid.





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Profile   Post #: 269
RE: Another poitless gun death. - 8/29/2014 6:57:44 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moderator3

Hell, I even offered to turn myself over to the mods if he could...

I think I missed something. Whatever could this mean? Do tell Moddy3.
Hello there, M3. How goes YOUR day?

I offered to turn myself into you for whatever heinous punishment a scourge such as myself would need to endure if joether could point out the posts where I had said there heartless, cruel, non-thinking things he said I did. Oddly enough, He hasn't brought those post numbers forward yet. Must be busy...

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Profile   Post #: 270
RE: Another poitless gun death. - 8/29/2014 7:25:58 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: quizzicalkitten


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967


quote:

ORIGINAL: quizzicalkitten


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

We have drawn the line at the age of majority for most things as being 18. Not perfect, I know. For more dangerous things, alcohol, handgun ownership and so on, the bar is set at 21.

Imperfect, but sort of where we are cooking our beans these days.


Incorrect you can buy a gun from a private seller in the majority of states at 18.


Incorrect, you can buy a RIFLE OR SHOTGUN from a private seller at 18. You need to be 21 to legally buy a pistol, everywhere.


Incorrect

http://www.salon.com/2013/02/05/18_year_olds_can_buy_handguns/




Not incorrect. Read the fuckin article, subrob and I never agree on anything, but we both know this law up and down, back and forth. It is ILLEGAL. They get caught selling handguns to less than 21 year olds, they are going to be given a number and watched closely for at least 10 years, end of joke. No discussion.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 271
RE: Another poitless gun death. - 8/29/2014 7:38:32 AM   
eulero83


Posts: 1470
Joined: 11/4/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


It could be argued that until you reached the accepted 'age of majority' (18), you shouldn't be allowed to handle guns of any sort. But then you'll get pro-gun people arguing that they wouldn't be able to teach their kids gun safety.



it looks quite a false problem, is gun safety something that require years of lessons? I think they just want to mold and shape them at their own image. In my experience as a sport's instructor I worked with kids of every age, I think an approrpiate age for handling firearms under supervision would be around 15 or 16, and 15 is very borderline, younger kids tend to be too little aware about real consequences of actions. When we are talking about children under 11 with a firearm, you are simply playing russian rulette even with supervision, it can go well for most but they are too impredictable.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 272
RE: Another poitless gun death. - 8/29/2014 7:39:10 AM   
quizzicalkitten


Posts: 312
Status: offline 		Really.
The Gun Control Act of 1968 made it illegal for a gun dealer to sell handgun to anyone under the age of 21. “Sales of handguns and ammunition for handguns are limited to persons 21 years of age and older,” the ATF’s official Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide states. But the agency’s regulations only apply to federally licensed firearms dealers, not to non-professional private sellers..

...
George Semonick of the ATF. “Under federal law, it’s not unlawful for an 18-year-old to posses a handgun,” Semonick explained to Salon, though some states have their own age requirements for handgun possession.

....
It’s quite legal for a nonprofessional to sell it to the 18-to-20-year-old, and for the 18-to-20-year-old to buy it, even if the nonprofessional knows or suspects that the buyer is under 21,” wrote libertarian-leaning lawyer Eugene Volokh on his popular blog back in 2010. Volokh notes that while the 18-to-20-year-old “can’t have someone buy it specifically for him, since that would be conspiracy to make a false statement, given that the straw purchaser would have to falsely assert that the gun is for the straw purchaser himself,” he can buy it from a private seller.


So the law an ATF agent and a lawyer say your wrong....

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 273
RE: Another poitless gun death. - 8/29/2014 7:40:38 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Back when I was in my yoot, we took NRA sponsored gun safety classes, at 12. Every boy AND GIRL did it, it was as necessary to living as was confirmation school.

We didn't just start shooting first day out.



_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to eulero83)
Profile   Post #: 274
RE: Another poitless gun death. - 8/29/2014 7:40:56 AM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: quizzicalkitten
And I think such a law would be stupid and not do anything to actually help the problem. Kids still drink under age they still smoke underage and they still drive cars underage the laws haven't prevented this from happening or deaths from occurring because of this happening. Why put in place a law that's inneffective and not going to prevent the perceived problem from happening.

Instead charge the parents that are being careless with child endangerment and the rate of kids playing with harmful things be it guns knives bug spray a bathtub will drop.

Instead of placing the blame on the parents where it's deserved your placing the blame on guns. Place the blame where the blame is deserved Don't use the tool as the excuse.

Yes, deaths will always happen to those stupid enough to mis-use/abuse certain things.

There isn't a law, anywhere, that actually stops those deaths happening.
After all, what is a law?? It's nothing more than a bunch of words written on some piece of paper that a lot of people won't agree with.
If a law says you aren't allowed to drink until you're at least 21, that isn't going to physically stop an 18yo misfit from doing so, is it?!
And laws are only ineffective if they are consistently broken with impunity by lawless citizens.
So your arguments don't hold water apart from stating the bleedin' obvious!!

But hey, a lawless society isn't one that I'd like to live in.
What laws do, is to outline the consequences and actions should you be caught breaking such laws and they (the laws) collectively attempt to keep society livable and vaguely honest.

As for apportioning blame, underage people are not considered legally responsible for their actions. And, if the 'child' happens to mis-use something when not physically in the company of their parents/guardians, are those adults automatically to carry the blame and punishment of the actions of their child??
In most cases, people wouldn't agree with that.
So, if your kid steals the neighbour's car and kills someone while driving the stolen vehicle - who takes the blame??
The parents?? I don't see why they should as they weren't responsible for the lack of security on the neighbour's car.
The neighbour?? The kid should keep his hands in his pockets and not go stealing other people's property!
The offending child?? Probably the most reasonable assumption.

And, surprisingly enough, most laws are enacted with 'the tools' to which they apply to.
To use your own examples, "guns, knives, bug spray, etc" and the restrictions for people on how/where/when/who are able to use them.
So it's quite appropriate to enact laws against the guns and the how/where/when/who is able to use them.
See how that works?? Probably not because you seem to like a lawless society.


_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
George Orwell, 1903-1950


(in reply to quizzicalkitten)
Profile   Post #: 275
RE: Another poitless gun death. - 8/29/2014 8:05:38 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:


eorge Semonick of the ATF. “Under federal law, it’s not unlawful for an 18-year-old to posses a handgun,” Semonick explained to Salon, though some states have their own age requirements for handgun possession.

....
It’s quite legal for a nonprofessional to sell it to the 18-to-20-year-old, and for the 18-to-20-year-old to buy it, even if the nonprofessional knows or suspects that the buyer is under 21,” wrote libertarian-leaning lawyer Eugene Volokh on his popular blog back in 2010. Volokh notes that while the 18-to-20-year-old “can’t have someone buy it specifically for him, since that would be conspiracy to make a false statement, given that the straw purchaser would have to falsely assert that the gun is for the straw purchaser himself,” he can buy it from a private seller.


So the law an ATF agent and a lawyer say your wrong....


The fuckin lawyer/blogger is full of shit. I don't care what he says, as many lawyers will tell you he is wrong.
Now, please read what the atf guy said, and I said that as well.

You may possess a handgun, but you may not purchase or own it at 18. Possession is not ownership.

18 USC 922.

(u)

(1) It shall be unlawful for a person to sell, deliver, or otherwise transfer to a person who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe is a juvenile—
(A) a handgun; or
(B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.
(2) It shall be unlawful for any person who is a juvenile to knowingly possess—
(A) a handgun; or
(B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.
(3) This subsection does not apply to—
(A) a temporary transfer of a handgun or ammunition to a juvenile or to the possession or use of a handgun or ammunition by a juvenile if the handgun and ammunition are possessed and used by the juvenile—

blah blah blah blah blah, yadda yadda yadda yadda


I think that is part of the youth handgun act of 96....laws change all the time, the Brady bill and so on.


< Message edited by mnottertail -- 8/29/2014 8:13:24 AM >

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 276
RE: Another poitless gun death. - 8/29/2014 8:41:21 AM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Back when I was in my yoot, we took NRA sponsored gun safety classes, at 12. Every boy AND GIRL did it, it was as necessary to living as was confirmation school.

We didn't just start shooting first day out.





So your Uzzi posting style traces back to age 12. Please, tell us more....

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 277
RE: Another poitless gun death. - 8/29/2014 8:47:58 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Well, Uzi's first made the scene about 1948, thats how they are in this country for people to own, because you cannot own a machine gun that was licenced after '68 due to the GCA, which is troublesome, cuz I guarentee you that ones siezed and whoever lost their license to own it.

So they predate me, and therefore I am unable to explain my style in a simile involving Uzis. I have no prior knowledge.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 278
RE: Another poitless gun death. - 8/29/2014 9:06:50 AM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		I bet at 9 years old you could handle one and not mow down your instructor with it -- by mistake. When I was 9 years old, my parents let me play with squirt and dart guns, provided I was careful. I had to use the squirt guns outside. Giving me a beebee gun or anything like it would have been a mistake....

At camp I remember shooting 22 caliber rifles. Big, heavy wooden things that held one bullet at a time. To me it was more fun to shoot arrows or play capture the flag.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 8/29/2014 9:08:09 AM >

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 279
RE: Another poitless gun death. - 8/29/2014 9:14:53 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

At camp I remember shooting 22 caliber rifles. Big, heavy wooden things that held one bullet at a time.

That's because you only get one shot with a wooden rifle before you have to go to the hospital.

K.


(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 280
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